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-   Documentary (http://www.dgrin.com/forumdisplay.php?f=59)
-   -   Oakland Occupy Protest (http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=208793)

Sam Oct-29-2011 01:07 PM

Oakland Occupy Protest
 
This is the second try to post. I had the whole thing almost done and somehow shut down the session and lost everything. :scratch:scratch:cry:cry:cry

SORRY about the text color. I hope I fixed it. Have to run out the door will check back later.


I decided on a whim to drive up to Oakland the see the occupy protest in person. We can all watch these things on TV where the various channels may deliver the news with there own bent, but what is the real story.

These are my thoughts and impressions. Yes I will interject my opinions.

There seems to be several distinct groups of people at this protest. One group is an older very liberal antiwar 60's type of protester. There is a younger more affluent educated group. Some are non violent and happy, others not so. There are the street people. Then there are the real radicals. There was a tenseness in the air.
I saw no police anywhere......................depending on who you are that could be good or bad news.

Micheal Moor showed up and you would have thought Jesus had returned to earth. He was immediately mobbed by the media and hordes of his accolades. I wish I could have gotten a video of one girl jumping up and down screaming reminiscent of when the Beatles came to America. Getting photos was going to be a chore!

I was surprised to observe what appeared to be a man who could hardly walk and looked perplexed trying to get to the microphone to speak. Once in front of the crowd this perception disappeared. He was in his element. With a strong voice and public speaking experience the gathered hung on his every word.

I spoke with a news camera man and after a brief time opened up to me and advised me to be careful, he said they don't like the media so try and let them know your not one of us. I asked how he would describe the difference between the occupy protest and the Tea Party events and he stated that the Tea party rallies felt safe with happy people who could intelligently articulate why the were there.

Sam


Now for the photos.

#1 Peaceful nice group of people.
[COLOR=#e6e6e6]http://www.samlinvillephotography.co...-tM95XTk-S.jpg


#2 Presenting his message.
http://www.samlinvillephotography.co...-9gs25Rm-S.jpg


#3 Micheal Moor arrives.
http://www.samlinvillephotography.co...-kqNwvxH-S.jpg


#4 He is immediately mobbed.
http://www.samlinvillephotography.co...-sBVBZhm-S.jpg


#5 Everyone wants his picture.
http://www.samlinvillephotography.co...-pH7C5Dt-S.jpg

#6 Moor is on a roll enthralling the crowd with his every word and gesture.
http://www.samlinvillephotography.co...-Qvm24FD-S.jpg[


#7 Why any adult making an informed decision to borrow money to better themselves or to satisfy a desire thinks they then shouldn't have to pay the money back is beyond me. I wish this could work for camera gear.
http://www.samlinvillephotography.co...-BcRWkF6-S.jpg


#8 What can one say?
http://www.samlinvillephotography.co...-7CM43sN-S.jpg

#9 One of the real radicals. He didn't want to talk or negotiate with anyone. He advocates revolution, and had far too many agreeing with him.
http://www.samlinvillephotography.co...-cpNzNJW-S.jpg

#10 This guy was clear with his demands. He said I damn well better get my free chicken!
http://www.samlinvillephotography.co...-WchT4VN-S.jpg

#11 Local NBC news woman.
http://www.samlinvillephotography.co...-J53qFXk-S.jpg


#$12 Almost forgot. You won't see this at a Tea Party rally.
http://www.samlinvillephotography.co...-LfVMQGW-S.jpg

Andy Oct-29-2011 04:12 PM

can't read your words :( they are white on white. Can you post without using any colors please?

https://img.skitch.com/20111030-b3ak...fegmh5shhp.jpg

Andy Oct-29-2011 05:14 PM

I can read it now :D In the future, just use the defaults, works best :D

sara505 Oct-29-2011 06:46 PM

That's actually a pretty good shot of gazillionaire Michael Moore.

Sam Oct-30-2011 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sara505 (Post 1692854)
That's actually a pretty good shot of gazillionaire Michael Moore.

Sara,

Lets not exaggerate, his net worth is only about 50 million. That's not anywhere near a gazillion. Also please note his money is different from other rich peoples money. They, the protesters, despise the rich, but give Moor a pass? :D

Sam

bdcolen Nov-01-2011 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam (Post 1693041)
Sara,

Lets not exaggerate, his net worth is only about 50 million. That's not anywhere near a gazillion. Also please note his money is different from other rich peoples money. They, the protesters, despise the rich, but give Moor a pass? :D

Sam

I wish you'd posted this excellent collection of images without the obviously biased commentary, Sam. It would have made it easier to simply respond to them as photographs.

As to your snide Michael Moore comments - and I have little use for Michael Moore and those who call him a documentary film maker when he is, in fact, a propagandist, the crowd has no problem with his millions because they see him as someone who uses his money and influence to support a social/political view they share. But I'll bet you knew that.:wink

As to the warm, friendly people at the Tea Party rallies, all one who believes that has to do is look at the photos, and video, of those rallies, at the signs carried, and some - some - of the behavior.

There's plenty of nasty craziness on both sides.

By the way, for those of you who haven't had much experience with "the media," as a rule, newspaper photographers and tv cameramen have tended to be conservative, while reporters are more likely to be liberal. (note that I said "newspaper photographers," not magazine photographers and not documentary photographers, and also note that this is a gross generalization.:rofl. But it may explain what the tv videographer said to Sam.)

Sam Nov-01-2011 06:54 PM

bdcolen,

While I clearly stated I would interject my opinions, I believe they were kept to a minimum, with general reportage being the mainstay.

While not a part of my original post my answer with regard to Moor's financial status and his selective acceptance by the Occupy people was not snide. Yes I understand that part of that acceptance is because he supports them, but my point was and is, Moor has made his money using the same capitalistic system the occupy folks call greedy and criminal and want to dismantle.

I reported the statement made by the camera man accurately. I could have elaborated somewhat and said he appeared a little on edge and watchful.

I went to see for myself what the environment and people were like. I have been to Tea Party events and to the occupy event. I can clearly say based on my first hand experience you will be much safer at at a Tea Party event. Yes I need to generalize a little, but for the most part you could go to a Tea Party event and state you disagree and engage in debate. You would not be wise to try that at an occupy event. This isn't bias it is a fact. I would be happy to to an occupy event with you and watch what happens when you tell them you don't support the cause. :D

I have seen very little nastiness from the Tea Party. When their events are over the park or area where the event took place is cleaner than before the event. Take a look at the aftermath on an occupy event.

These are facts. I have not ranted and raved. I have not espoused one view over the other. I have noted the differences.

Sam

ps: My next post has better photos.

richardman Nov-01-2011 07:08 PM

Sam, photographically, they are good pictures, especially the one with Moore, but to say you are unbiased... well. I call BS.

I was in NYC, I was in Oakland, I was in SF. Sure there are radical elements, but there are also non-violence types. I saw people cleaning up, both on the encampment before the police kicked them out, and also during the march.

Yes there are homeless people, and yes, there are people who do drugs. This is Oakland and many of these people are marginalized. Should they eat cake? Would that solve their problems or issues?

Why would a nominally objective photojournalist going into an event of any type and argue with them on opposite viewpoints? If you have an opposite viewpoint, put down your camera and talk to them. There have been far too many "photographers" with an agenda who took photos and then colored their blog posts with phrases like "Lord of the flies" etc. I went there. I am 5'4", and yes, they even asked me about my photos. I talked to them, I showed them my blog. You are far more safer now than before at Oakland at night. You are from San Jose, you know that's true.

michswiss Nov-01-2011 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam (Post 1694316)

These are facts. I have not ranted and raved. I have not espoused one view over the other. I have noted the differences.

Sam

ps: My next post has better photos.

I have a hard time accepting this as fact. There is tons of anecdotal data about radical behavior on both movements. But as your personal experience? Sure. Nothing wrong with that though. Just curious why you persist in misspelling Michael Moore's surname? Looking forward to the next set of images.

Sam Nov-01-2011 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by michswiss (Post 1694325)
I have a hard time accepting this as fact. There is tons of anecdotal data about radical behavior on both movements. But as your personal experience? Sure. Nothing wrong with that though. Just curious why you persist in misspelling Michael Moore's surname? Looking forward to the next set of images.

I keep misspelling his name because I am severely spelling impaired. :D Go down a few threads and there are more photos.

Sam

Sam Nov-01-2011 10:46 PM

Richardson,

Your right crime is down. Oakland is now rated as safer than 4% of the cities in America. That means only 96% of American cities are safer. :D

Bias is a loaded word with many differing interpretations. I like all of us have preferences and predispositions. I have tried, for the most part, to separate opinions from my observations and facts.

I have previously refrained from stating that the park had a barnyard odor mixed with Marijuana. Is that bias? No it's fact.

I stated that there were a variety of different people there ranging from well intentioned to hard core radicals, advocating force to achieve their goals, as well as revolution. Unfortunately there are too many of the later.

My statement regarding attitude demeanor and safety was just that, and I stand by it. Trying to ignore the point made by simply deflecting the statement with a question of why one would try discussing or debating the cause they are championing is disingenuous.

The Tea Party has suffered from bias reporting yet don't treat the media with the same attitude.

I went, I spoke with people, I looked, I evaluated. I have tried to represent what I found accurately in word and images.

If anyone would like to see a lot more images feel free to go to my website.

Sam

richardman Nov-01-2011 11:13 PM

Sam, it's a free country and everyone is entitled to their opinions, bias, preferences, predispositions, whatever you want to call it.

But to look at the titles you gave to the photos on this forum, and to claim objectivity, is what I disagree with.

We come here to look at photos. If you have personal opinions, it may be best for other forums.

jonh68 Nov-02-2011 04:28 AM

Sam made observations and reported what he saw. I think the "backlash" towards Sam's post has more to do with personal bias for the movement.

michswiss Nov-02-2011 05:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonh68 (Post 1694414)
Sam made observations and reported what he saw. I think the "backlash" towards Sam's post has more to do with personal bias for the movement.

Sam stated his observations as facts. I'm happy to accept his observations as his own and reflecting his experiences. No problem with that at all. It would be cool though if the imagery could be separated from the textual commentary.

sara505 Nov-02-2011 12:06 PM

I happen to agree with Sam, politically, but I always prefer photos without the verbiage, would rather be left to my own thoughts rather than guided by titles or commentary. I've seen the whole collection and there are some outstanding photos, including more of Moore, but there's something special about the one he posted above - the luminance makes it really stand out. Kind of ironic, given how I feel about that guy. The other point is - photos such as these naturally bring out feelings - pro and con - opinions expressed show they've done their job.

lizzard_nyc Nov-02-2011 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sara505 (Post 1694595)
I happen to agree with Sam, politically, but I always prefer photos without the verbiage, would rather be left to my own thoughts rather than guided by titles or commentary. I've seen the whole collection and there are some outstanding photos, including more of Moore, but there's something special about the one he posted above - the luminance makes it really stand out. Kind of ironic, given how I feel about that guy. The other point is - photos such as these naturally bring out feelings - pro and con - opinions expressed show they've done their job.


The opinions expressed are not based on the photos but rather his commentary, so no the photos are not "doing their job".
I'd like to see commentaries on the photos only as there is a no win prospect when dealing w/ politics and individual beliefs, but again as with another post recently, it's hard to get past the commentary and not get defensive (depending on which side you are on).

jonh68 Nov-02-2011 03:32 PM

This thread shows why if pictures of a political nature are allowed, we should have political debate on the pictures as that is what photojournalism is about. Otherwise, pictures of a political nature should not be allowed if we can't have political debates either.

angevin1 Nov-02-2011 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sara505 (Post 1694595)
The other point is - photos such as these naturally bring out feelings - pro and con - opinions expressed show they've done their job.

:thumb


I can hardly believe what I am reading in this thread. Some, it bothers that Sam labels an observation a "fact." Others think there should be no captions. Good grief, you'd think he had no right to label his observations and captures. If he were to submit these: Anywhere for publication, he'd better have a caption and some even want a description as well.

it's hard to get past the commentary? Really? wow!

IMO if Sam wants to call some things a fact, he has every right to. If I don't think it's a fact and I see no harm coming to him or others, for me it becomes a good with the bad kinda thing. I ignore the component I don't like (the bad) to enjoy the component I do like (the good)!

richardman Nov-02-2011 11:17 PM

No one says there should be no debate, or that people should not express their opinions, but that if one were to express their opinions, one should be honest about it. As for photographic content, I found a photo posting in a forum such as this littered with opinions disguised as facts degrading. It makes the photos less than what they should be.

jonh68 Nov-03-2011 06:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by richardman (Post 1694791)
No one says there should be no debate, or that people should not express their opinions, but that if one were to express their opinions, one should be honest about it. As for photographic content, I found a photo posting in a forum such as this littered with opinions disguised as facts degrading. It makes the photos less than what they should be.

You contradict yourself in this thread. Sam did what you said he could do, then you call what he did degrading. He gave his observations about what he saw. This event is about stirring debate. If the protestors or those that support the cause cannot handle contrary commentary,opinions, or observations, then they are not really about the free exchange of ideas. Sam clearly stated he was expressing his opinions too. He wasn't hiding he was making editorial comments too.


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