Girls gymnastics

cmkultradome · March 22, 2009

Last weekend my son's gymnastics club hosted a weekend gymnastics meet at a local high school. The owner's of the club hired a professional photographer to take photos but they also wanted a parent photographer on the floor to capture photos to be used for our gym's end of the year banquet slide show (both candid and action) and for internal use. The pro was fine with this as he was only shooting the floor exercise. They asked me to be the parent photographer. I had a great time. The pro was terrific, he covered last year's Olympic trials, and was extremely helpful and encouraging. I was shooting with a 40D, a 70-200mm 2.8L, and ISO 1600. I could still only get shutter speeds of a max 1/250. Therefore I tried to stick more with posed shots so I didn't have as much blur. I was pretty happy with my results. On the uneven bars I had to shoot upward and the white ceiling and bright lights kept getting blown out. Any suggestions on how to handle this or post process it better? I know my horizons may be off in some of the photos, still working on that, although some of them are closely cropped and if I straighten the horizon I cut off limbs. Thanks.

Stephanie

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Rocketman766 · March 22, 2009

Looks like you had more light that I am used to having for gymnastics. Shots do look pretty good, but I know how frustrating it can be to only get 1/250 or 1/320 due to limits in lighting with indoor sports. Were the gym owners/judges watching over you for placement? The gyms here don't like letting anyone on the floor. So far I have only posted cheerleading shots, but am working hard to get into the gyms here to shoot gymnastics. Sorry I don't have any advice for you on keeping the lights from getting blown out, but I will be watching this thread for other's answers. I just ordered noise ninja to help with the shots that I shoot with ISO 1600. Do you shoot in Raw or jpeg?

Hikin' Mike · March 22, 2009

You did great! I've been 'shooting' my oldest gymnastics (L5) for a few years now using my 5D and 70-200 f/4.

donek · March 22, 2009

As you mentioned, the blown ceiling is quite distracting. As I see it, you have a couple options. Don't shoot up, or position yourself such that you don't see an over blown ceiling (if such a situation exists). Can you get higher, shoot from the stands? If that doesn't work, you could add flash or strobes to knock down the light on the ceiling by putting more in your subject.

cmkultradome · March 22, 2009

Rocketman766 wrote:

Looks like you had more light that I am used to having for gymnastics. Shots do look pretty good, but I know how frustrating it can be to only get 1/250 or 1/320 due to limits in lighting with indoor sports. Were the gym owners/judges watching over you for placement? The gyms here don't like letting anyone on the floor. So far I have only posted cheerleading shots, but am working hard to get into the gyms here to shoot gymnastics. Sorry I don't have any advice for you on keeping the lights from getting blown out, but I will be watching this thread for other's answers. I just ordered noise ninja to help with the shots that I shoot with ISO 1600. Do you shoot in Raw or jpeg?

The gym owners were very good about allowing me right on the floor which was great. I tried to remain low (kneeling) to keep out of everyone's way including the spectators and usually stayed slightly off to the side (same side as the judges) so I wasn't a distraction. The owners actually made me an official "Press Pass" which both myself and the professional had around our necks. I did run these pictures thru Neat Image (similar to Noise Ninja) which I think helped. I shot most of the meet in RAW which definitely helped because I needed to correct the white balance. On the 2nd day I had to switch to JPEG because I was running out of memory (I had already unloaded my cards from the first day, but we had more competitors compete on the 2nd day). I only have 1 x 4GB and 2 x 2GB cards (I usually am not taking photos of this many gymnasts, I usually just do the 5 boys at my son's level). I guess I'll have to get some more memory for the future.

Stephanie

cmkultradome · March 22, 2009

donek wrote:

As you mentioned, the blown ceiling is quite distracting. As I see it, you have a couple options. Don't shoot up, or position yourself such that you don't see an over blown ceiling (if such a situation exists). Can you get higher, shoot from the stands? If that doesn't work, you could add flash or strobes to knock down the light on the ceiling by putting more in your subject.

Sean-
I usually do take the pictures from the stands so I hadn't encountered the problem before. However, when I shoot from the stands, the 70-200mm isn't long enough to get the events that are on the backside of the gym. That was why it was so nice to be on the floor, I could access all events. I guess I can't have my cake and eat it too though. I don't own strobes/flashes but it doesn't really matter - they are a definite no-no in all gymnastics.

Stephanie

cmkultradome · March 22, 2009

Hikin' Mike wrote:

You did great! I've been 'shooting' my oldest gymnastics (L5) for a few years now using my 5D and 70-200 f/4.

Thanks Mike. My son is a L5. I don't usually get to shoot the girls, it was a lot of fun. State championships are next weekend (boys & girls). Only adults with a USAG card are allowed on the floor, so its back to the stands for me.

Stephanie

Cuong · March 23, 2009

You did well considering the poor lighting situation. Even well-known college level venues don't give us much better lighting than just 1 stop more than what you had at that gym, and 1/500 sec speed is definitely not enough to freeze gymnastics movements. It's nice to be up close to the subject, but make sure to leave plenty of space for straightening and cropping in post processing if you don't want to cut off any limbs. Occasional close-up shots would also give variety to the collection. Timing and anticipation are important to catch those decisive moments of the event. Just like anything else, the more you do it, the better you'll become. Keep on shooting.

Cuong

Cuong · March 24, 2009

BTW, get some larger capacity CFs so you don't have to resort to just jpeg shooting. They're more affordable than ever, but keep an eye out for good deals and spring for the 8GB or 16GB.

Cuong

ajlipe · April 3, 2009

donek wrote:

If that doesn't work, you could add flash or strobes to knock down the light on the ceiling by putting more in your subject.

Definite no-no with gymnastics.

beetle8 · April 7, 2009

donek wrote:

If that doesn't work, you could add flash or strobes to knock down the light on the ceiling by putting more in your subject.

Chances are the OP knows that this is a recipe for getting kicked off the floor and pointed, and whispered about.
and the other fact is there is only so much repositioning you can do, place yourself for the shot and expose for the face, that's the best you can do and you did fine here.
It does look like you had a decent amount of light as far as gymnastics goes.

austinado16 · May 7, 2009

[Slight Hijack]

Hi,
First post as a noobee here. One of your forum members recommend I join and read the threads from those of you shooting gymnastics.

I'm getting ready to buy my first DSLR for just this purpose, shooting my daughter (L5) in gymnastics.

I see the poster of this thread is using a Canon 40d, 70-200mm F2.8 zoom. This is the set up I've been leaning towards, but I'm open to advice/comments/etc. on what will give the best results.....without spending umpteen grand. I noticed Stephanie had to shoot at 1600ISO and 1/250th and it looks like that was the ragged edge of stopping motion.

Is there a more prefered set up? Would prime lenses at F2 or below be a better option? Like maybe having a 50mm, and 85mm and something 200 or better?

Or is there a camera model that's better suited to lower light/higher ISO's? Or does that get back into the "spending umpteen thousand" catagory? Would something like a Nikon D80 or D90 be better suited?

By the way, I think the photos look great, and the ceiling doesn't bother me at all. That's how it looks in gyms....that and the exposed steel beams everywhere.

All advice greatly appreciated!
[/Slight Hijack]

beetle8 · May 7, 2009

Definitely a hijack,

I would take the d90 over the 40d everyday of the week and twice on sundays (cause that's when the meets are). The d90 has the same sensor as the d300 which is going to give you way better high iso performance than the 40d. you say you don't want to spend thousands but are considering a line up of primes? If you are shooting from the stands the 70-200 will be the best lens choice, it will in fact be the best overall lens choice for gymnastics period. Even with restricted access the 50 will be too short and focus is too slow. I've shot a few events with an 85 prime with access and got good results. I've shot with 105, 200, and 300 primes all were fun and produced great images, but if I had to choose one lens it would be the 70-200, hands down no questions.
I have shot over 250,000 gymnastics shots, 95% of them at 3200 iso and 85% of them with a 70-200 2.8
Of all the rigs I've used (Konica/Minolta 5d, Cannon 1DmkII, Nikon d2, Sony a700, Nikon d200) I am most satisfied with the set up I am using right now, a Nikon D300 and Nikkor AF-S VR 70-200 f2.8G.

austinado16 · May 7, 2009

So Keith, you are my new best friend

One reason I was leaning toward Canon was their 70-200 F2.8 appears to get a better review at dpreview.com than the Nikkor lens. Went to your site just now and looked at your sports shots.....fantastic. Love the close ups that really show the concentration these kids have. Would you mind if I emailed you?

I guess my thought regarding owning the primes, was that they are faster, and there's plenty of time between each event to switch lenses and sometimes seating position.

But as I said, I'm open to learning because this is a big purchase (to me anyway) and I'd prefer to make it only once.

Cuong · May 7, 2009

austinado16 wrote:

[Slight Hijack]

Hi,
First post as a noobee here. One of your forum members recommend I join and read the threads from those of you shooting gymnastics.

I'm getting ready to buy my first DSLR for just this purpose, shooting my daughter (L5) in gymnastics.

I see the poster of this thread is using a Canon 40d, 70-200mm F2.8 zoom. This is the set up I've been leaning towards, but I'm open to advice/comments/etc. on what will give the best results.....without spending umpteen grand. I noticed Stephanie had to shoot at 1600ISO and 1/250th and it looks like that was the ragged edge of stopping motion.

Is there a more prefered set up? Would prime lenses at F2 or below be a better option? Like maybe having a 50mm, and 85mm and something 200 or better?

Or is there a camera model that's better suited to lower light/higher ISO's? Or does that get back into the "spending umpteen thousand" catagory? Would something like a Nikon D80 or D90 be better suited?

By the way, I think the photos look great, and the ceiling doesn't bother me at all. That's how it looks in gyms....that and the exposed steel beams everywhere.

All advice greatly appreciated!
[/Slight Hijack]

Welcome to the world of gymnastics photography. I've been shooting my daughter's gymnastics (levels 5 & 6) for a couple years. I started out with the Canon 30D and 70-200mm f/2.8 IS. Since then I have added the 40D and 85mm f/1.8 to my arsenal. When it comes to versatility and performance (image quality and AF), the 70-200 lens really shines above others. The 85mm lens is an excellent performer with an extra stop for a very reasonable price. Prime lenses are nice to have, but I don't recommend switching lenses or cameras in the middle of a routine. A gymnastic routine can be over in mere seconds (vault), so you can miss the action trying to switch lenses or camera. I do use a monopod with the 70-200 since it would be too much to handhold it all day long.

Noise at high ISO is a non-issue provided you don't underexpose. If you have to underexpose at high ISO, noise can be removed during post processing. Shutter speed needs to be 1/500 sec. or faster to freeze action sufficiently. You'll find that most gyms have terrible lighting. Sometimes you can barely manage a shutter speed of 1/250 at f/2.8 on ISO1600 without underexposing by a full stop. In this case, you need to anticipate and time your shot to catch the gymnast at the peak of the move to minimize blurring. You certainly can get by with that shutter speed since level 5 gymnasts are not as fast as their higher level counterparts. Do use AF tracking to help keep the subject in focus. Use f/2 if you need the faster shutter speed, but keep in mind the depth of field will be shallower and the image won't be as sharp as using f/2.8.

Your objective is to obtain quality images without having to spend upmteen grand. A Canon 40D, battery grip, 70-200mm f/2.8 IS, and 85mm f/1.8 would give you that capability for about 3 grand. If you want to see images produced by this equipment combo, take a look at my gallery, http://cuong.smugmug.com/Sports/557663 . Start shooting and keep shooting. You'll enjoy it.

Cuong

austinado16 · May 7, 2009

Thanks Cuong, that's what I'm looking for is people shooting gymnastics who can say: "I use this set up, at these settings, and here's what I'm getting."

Couldn't see all of your albums because they are password protected. I'm in San Luis Obispo, so I don't know who hosted those southern CA meets. I'd like to see more of your shots though. Looks like you're able to stop motion just fine though.

Until Keith's comments (which I really value alot too) I was pricing Canon 40d's and their 70-200 non-IS lens. Nice used, seems like about 2 grand would get me both.

I wanted to do some practice shooting with a 35mm before jumping into DSLR's, so I bought a guy's complete Canon Rebel II (1992-1995 vintage) setup. It came with:
Canon 24mm fF2.8
Canon 35-80mm f4-5.6
Canon 70-210mm f4
Tamron 2x converter
Tamron 28-300mm f3.5-6.3
Kalimar 800-1200mm (which I'm selling because I'll never use it)
Manfrotto Monopod
Vivitar auto focus zoom flash
A dozen filters including a PL and a 3 way?
A nice gear bag that it all fits into

So one good thing if I go Canon, I've got a ton of gear to go with it for non-gym shooting.

I wasn't planning on switching lenses during my daughter's performance, but in between.......since these things last 4hrs, and there's all kinds of time between each performance to move, change a lens, take some test shots of the new apparatus w/ someone else's kid on it, etc. So that's why I was thinking some Primes would be okay.

But I see what you guys are saying about the real narrow DOF with Primes that are f2 or lower. Although I really like the look/feel of a very blury background in sports shots, especially gymnastics where there can be so much going on the background that the sole gymnast doesn't "pop" very much.

I appreciate all the advice because I certainly don't want to reinvent the wheel here. If you guys have other comments, please share. Thanks!

Girls gymnastics

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