If a newspaper runs an add from a local business, who is responsible to ensure that images used for said add have the proper copyright releases? Both for use of the image and permissions from the recognizable people in the image? The newspaper that prints and distributes or the business that submits the add, or both.

Thanks...

If you really want the entire story, ask and I'll bore you with it.

If its an ad and not a news story, then the ad purchaser/placer is responsible. Part of the contract for the ad probably has a disclaimer that the provider of the work owns the copyright and indemnifies the paper if someone sues. Go after the business, not the paper. Not a lawyer so take with a grain of salt, but that's been my extremely limited experience.

Go ahead bore us a teeny bit....unless your pic was in a movie without your permission.

Originally Posted by Bryce Wilson If a newspaper runs an add from a local business, who is responsible to ensure that images used for said add have the proper copyright releases? Both for use of the image and permissions from the recognizable people in the image? The newspaper that prints and distributes or the business that submits the add, or both. Thanks... If you really want the entire story, ask and I'll bore you with it.

The Biz, but really in court-of-law, it can be both. So yes, give us the scoop!

OK, Readers Digest version:

Last December my daughter appeared in a (for profit) production of The Nutcracker with a theater/dance troupe. Proud papa that I am, I rented a 70-200mm 2.8 to capture her in this event. If I do say so myself, I was able to get some very nice images.

I put some of the images up on my Flickr account (download protected) so she could share them with other members of the troupe. At the request of one of the subjects in a really nice image, I provided them with an 8x10 of it.

This image has show up in a print advertisement for a dance school that is involved with the Nutcracker production. And yes, I know it's mine for it still has my small logo on it.

But wait, it gets better. A volume photographer that was hired to do posed pictures of the cast during a dress rehearsal has images in the add too. Not sure what their agreement is with the school/troupe, but, my daughter appears in one of the images. I know for certain that neither her mother or I singed anything giving permission.

Maybe I'll just send an invoice to the school?

Originally Posted by Bryce Wilson OK, Readers Digest version: At the request of one of the subjects in a really nice image, I provided them with an 8x10 of it.

Them the subject of the Photo, or them the Troupe?

Originally Posted by Bryce Wilson But wait, it gets better. A volume photographer that was hired to do posed pictures of the cast during a dress rehearsal has images in the add too. Not sure what their agreement is with the school/troupe, but, my daughter appears in one of the images. I know for certain that neither her mother or I singed anything giving permission. Maybe I'll just send an invoice to the school?

So I take it there was no contract to sign for your Daughter to be in this production?

Them, as in the subject of the photograph and NOT the troupe.

You are correct. Nothing signed.

Total side issue:
Many times the contract between the troupe and the copyright holder of the script does not allow recording of the show. I don't know if you shot while the show was going on or not. I don't know if the troupe used a version of the Nutcracker that's in the public domain or one that came along with an agreement.

What might not be a side issue:
The thing to find out more about is if getting money from the people who infringed you means you owe something to rights holder of the show. As they say, "now there's money involved."

Originally Posted by nak Total side issue: Many times the contract between the troupe and the copyright holder of the script does not allow recording of the show. I don't know if you shot while the show was going on or not. I don't know if the troupe used a version of the Nutcracker that's in the public domain or one that came along with an agreement.

That's a moot point in this case. Even if he isn't able to market the photos he took during the performance, that doesn't give the dance school the right to use a photo of his daughter in their advertising without getting a model release from her (or her parent if she is a minor).


Also, unless he signed a contract giving the dance troupe all rights to any photos he took, they cannot legally use or disseminate the photos he took without his permission.

Originally Posted by Bryce Wilson Them, as in the subject of the photograph and NOT the troupe. You are correct. Nothing signed.

I guess my question would be; what is the result you'd prefer out of all this?

Originally Posted by angevin1 I guess my question would be; what is the result you'd prefer out of all this?

Prefer? I would prefer if the section of the U.S. Copyright law as it pertains to digital imagery were scratched into their forehead. But, as there are most likely laws against such action and I would never consider breaking a law, I would settle for them be informed by someone/something official of the error of their ways and to be provided a service by them, free of charge, of equal value.

Originally Posted by Bryce Wilson Prefer? I would prefer if the section of the U.S. Copyright law as it pertains to digital imagery were scratched into their forehead. But, as there are most likely laws against such action and I would never consider breaking a law, I would settle for them be informed by someone/something official of the error of their ways and to be provided a service by them, free of charge, of equal value.

OK, so here is a good first step:

Ask to meet with the person responsible for using your photo without permission- bring with you a printout of the relevant sections of the US copyright code ( http://www.copyright.gov/ ), and discuss with that person what kind of service you would like from them in return for them using your photo.

If they are truly ignorant of copyright laws , once you inform them of their misdeed they should be happy to work something out with you.

If they have no intention of working things out with you after you meet with them , then come back here with info on their response to your request and we will go from there.

Originally Posted by Bryce Wilson Prefer? I would settle for them be informed by someone/something official of the error of their ways and to be provided a service by them, free of charge, of equal value.

Then you need to contact a lawyer that deals in this type of law.

Originally Posted by Blaker If they have no intention of working things out with you after you meet with them , then come back here with info on their response to your request and we will go from there.

He needs to contact a lawyer.

I ran into a situation not too long ago and though I wanted to come here to spill my guts since it was photo related and could have, I chose not to. At the end of the day it wouldn't have served me at all. I contacted a lawyer.

Bryce I don't see any great suggestions this side of contacting a lawyer. True, it is always better if we can confront and come to an amicable solution. But sometimes it is better to just deal with it with a true professional at your side. A Lawyer may not even have to do anything except offer you some suggestions for dealing with it on your own, and that would be better for certain most times.

FYI, lots of schools and extra curricular studios have a little clause on the enrollment papers regarding photos and video.

Sorry it took so long to post the ending to this thread...

Being stupid busy with senior shoots, It honestly slipped my mind.

Guess who's daughter is getting a free dance class!

Everybody is happy!

Originally Posted by Bryce Wilson Sorry it took so long to post the ending to this thread... Being stupid busy with senior shoots, It honestly slipped my mind. Guess who's daughter is getting a free dance class! Everybody is happy!

excellent outcome!

Originally Posted by angevin1 excellent outcome!

That does sound like a good outcome. I'd also like to point out that the production itself is probably copyrighted. Your photograph may be in violation of the studio's copyright.