I'm sure I'm not the only one when I say this, but a huge portion of my business comes from Facebook. I have built a pretty solid fan base but ,as always, I am looking to grow. I seem to have slowed down on the number of "likes" I receive, so I went looking for options. Apparently you can buy targeted fans from agencies who basically market you toward the market you want to appeal to. Has anyone ever done this?

So I ask you...

Are all of your fans organic? Meaning they crawled to your page on their own?
Do/Have you market with Facebook by buying ads?
Do/Have you ever bought targeted fans?

Interesting question since I just finished setting up a Facebook page and was curious about this myself.

I always thought "likes" were an ego or bragging thing, or something just to use for marketing - "We've got 1000 likes!". Pretty useless.

Originally Posted by dlscott56 Interesting question since I just finished setting up a Facebook page and was curious about this myself.

Mine has been completely organic, the only extra exposure is the link from my site. However, I only have about 550 fans, so I should listen to others successes here to grow that number.

Originally Posted by orljustin I always thought "likes" were an ego or bragging thing, or something just to use for marketing - "We've got 1000 likes!". Pretty useless.

Only useless if you don't take advantage of those 1,000 likes with advertisement to draw in more business.

I thought that when someone "likes" your page it shows up in their feed? Don't really know much about Facebook, but, if that's true then don't all of their friends also see that they did that? Which could result in more traffic? Again, I don't really know anything about how business takes advantage of Facebook or if it's effective. Just curious about it.

orljustin - In this age of social media, aside from bringing in new business, I think the number of likes is rather important (not "useless" as described above) in that some potential clients might feel validated that they are choosing (or have chosen) someone with credibility and/or clout and/or internet fame. The number of likes certainly helps solidify (or damage) that impression.

Having said that, I don't know the answer to your question, since my new Concert Photography page is literally two days old and I only have 30 likes so far! :)

What I do know is that people will come to your page and not realize that they should be clicking the LIKE button...so they "like" a few photos or albums and then leave, only to forget about you forever. To help avoid this, check out the little graphic reminder that I've added to the Cover Photo itself:




now, admittedly, this is kind of an "edgy" area of photography audience-wise, so I can get away with being little more aggressive.

--------------------------------

Also, if you tag someone in a photo, you might consider putting a link to your facebook page as the caption of the photo, because that person's friends may only see the photo(s) you tagged of the subject, not the entire album/gallery from which it came, and they might not see an obvious way to get to your page. Here's a sample of what I mean about enticing viewers to visit your page via the caption


oh, Eric and Dave, I just liked both of your pages, so you each got one more just by talking about it here. ;)

There are a variety of ways to get likes. The obvious ones are to get all your friends to like the page. Their friends should see that as well. If you Google "how to increase facebook likes", you'll find a ton of other ways to increase the number of likes.

The other thing to do is make your web pages social media friendly. That means working with Facebook's developer pages to add "Like" button to your web page. Don't forget Twitter while you're at it Some photographers even gather facebook comments and bring them onto their websites too.

Good luck!

And Chris, I might just like that on the basis of cool. Awesome job.

Running a contest that requires people to like your page to vote is a popular thing on facebook. I believe its also against facebook rules, but it doesnt seem to stop many of the photographers around here from doing it. But to me its not worth getting the page shut down. But if you are just starting up who knows. :)

It seems most clients become a fan of my work either before or after their portrait session, then friends and family that sees their pictures may like the page.

I post once in a while on my status info about my fan page, but that doesnt draw in to many people. Mostly its just customers or admirors of my work. Its slowly going up, im almost at 800 but ive been working at it for years.

You could run specials, like doing a give away to a random fan of your page and promote it for a while on your personal page.

I find personal facebook pages are more effective, you just have to add someone as a friend and then they will see your posts, you dont have to wait for them to become a fan.

I do wish I created a second personal page for my business and kept my current personal one just for close friends and family.

You're not allowed to put something like that in your cover photo - it is against the facebook terms.

From their help pages:

Cover images must be at least 399 pixels wide and may not contain:
Price or purchase information, such as "40% off" or "Download it at our website"
Contact information, such as web address, email, mailing address or other information intended for your Page's About section
References to user interface elements, such as Like or Share, or any other Facebook site features
Calls to action, such as "Get it now" or "Tell your friends"

constant contact social marketing

Well let me firstly qualify my useless post by saying I'm not at all into face waste and I think it's something that despite it's size will either implode on itself or become a passing fad that people will look back on and no one will ( typically and ironically) ever admit to having anything to do with.

I think it's also a great and misleading marketing tool for the uneducated in marketing. Many seem to believe that in this day and age have a faceache page and a million friends giving "likes" ( I still find that a childish and embarrassing term) is going to give them a solid business.
Facewaste is nothing more than anther marketing/ advertising medium exactly the same as an ad in a newspaper, magazine or phone book. You can argue the technical differences but fundamentally, ( although many will argue otherwise through ignorance) it's the same thing.

One big difference seems to be measurement and conversion factor. With an advertisement you can and companies certainly do track their response rate and the correlation between their investment in the ad and the return. So far, with my admittedly limited interest, I'm yet to see anyone put up any numbers between the amount of likes to sales or revenue. I'm sure you can directly create numbers by having people like you to get an offer or something but otherwise, it seems more feelgood BS for the small business person rather than a concrete and viable income stream.

And yes, there will be people that say things like my business or the majority of my work comes from face ache, just like people used to say the same thing about yellow pages 20 years ago. The reasons are still the same. If facewaste is the only advertising you do or 95% of your marketing effort goes into it, well you damn well better hope the majority of your business comes from it.
That's not to say its the most effective avenue of promoting your business though or gives you the best return for the time invested.

I set a mate up in a photo business at the start of the year. He's doing bread and butter low end portrait work and gets ALL his business from those Drasticly discounted "Deal of the day" websites.
I set the whole business up to work off that one advertising medium. And it does work very nicely especially for a guy who'd photographic knowledge can be written in the top left hand corner of a postage stamp in 12 point.

Now I can't imagine how he could have anywhere near the business he's got with Face waste. For one thing the time he'd have to invest would be magnitudes more than he does with the discount deal sites which are basicaly send the copy and sample pics we set up months back and sit down and take the calls from the people who bought the deal.
The whole nature of these site is a call to action in a specific time for a pre-determined number of people and therefore a predetermined Minimum return. I see no way of achieving that on face waste.

My current business would be useless to promote on facewaste. I could be liked better than free money but it would be 100% irrelevant and totally unconvertible to sales for what I'm doing. The problem I see is many people are pretty much in the same boat, they just don't realise it because they are caught up in the Hype and don't know anything better.

If you are selling a product that is saleable around the world like rock concert pics for instance, certainly I can see the possible benifits to getting in front of a lot of potential clients. If you are a wedding and portrait shooter for instance who's product is largely localised, well it's not hard to see that a million people could Love what you do but your target market and where you earn your $$ from is still 99% going to be in your local town of Baccabuggery. IF your competitor takes out a prominent billboard ad for a year, You are going to be competeing against that and all those people likeing you in your town are going to be going to see that guy and check him out and your likes are essentially not worth that much at the end of the day.

From what I have seen, people place too much emphasis on getting these likes and not enough attention on converting them to sales or $$.

Everything seems to be a lot of hype about building likes for some future benefit and growth in ones business but I am yet to see an actual plan or theroy as to how those likes are going to be actually converted to real $$ and at what specific point in time. How can you grow a business without set points to realise goals but with faceache it always seems to be about the future with no given time frame as to when all this like crap will pay off.

Facewaste should be nothing more than another marketing medium and a considered and multi pronged marketing initiative.

When I see a formula or method for converting likes to income in a measurable and tangible way, then I'll change my ideas about face waste. In the mean time, I'll hold great reservations about the whole thing as a viable business marketing avenue.

I have to disagree, facebook is a valuable tool for many photographers, but not all. ive gotten messages minutes after posting pictures from a recent portrait asking about booking an appointment. Its a free tool to advertise on and can help get you new customers. Although it is a time vampire if your not careful. Its not the only way I advertise but its the best one for me.

Originally Posted by GerryDavid I have to disagree, facebook is a valuable tool for many photographers, but not all. ive gotten messages minutes after posting pictures from a recent portrait asking about booking an appointment. Its a free tool to advertise on and can help get you new customers. Although it is a time vampire if your not careful. Its not the only way I advertise but its the best one for me.

Yep, couldn't agree more. Free advertising, little time required, on a medium that's 'popular' right now. Can't lose on that one. No sense in injecting personal feelings about Facebook's place in the world. A smart marketer will take advantage of any medium available. And, if and when Facebook falls out of favor, you find what's next and use it to your advantage.

Originally Posted by eric-holmes I'm sure I'm not the only one when I say this, but a huge portion of my business comes from Facebook. I have built a pretty solid fan base but ,as always, I am looking to grow. I seem to have slowed down on the number of "likes" I receive, so I went looking for options. Apparently you can buy targeted fans from agencies who basically market you toward the market you want to appeal to. Has anyone ever done this? So I ask you... Are all of your fans organic? Meaning they crawled to your page on their own? Do/Have you market with Facebook by buying ads? Do/Have you ever bought targeted fans?

I'll bet you $3 you did NOT get your first gig from FB. FB is another tool. If you have talent, drive and dedication, then you'll have no problem even if you shunned Fb!

Originally Posted by GerryDavid I have to disagree, facebook is a valuable tool for many photographers, but not all. ive gotten messages minutes after posting pictures from a recent portrait asking about booking an appointment.

Right.
An enquiry is nice and a step in the right direction but what counts is sales.
Did the person that enquired actually come in for a session and then buy pics?
If they did, terrific. If they didn't, then enquirys are like likes. They might give you the warm and fuzzys but they don't pay the bills.

Do you actually know how many people have paid you to shoot for them that liked you on face waste and what their average spend has been?
If not, then you have a lot to learn about marketing your business.

A smart marketer will take advantage of any medium available.

Errr, not even close.
A smart marketer knows which mediums apply and are effective for their business and which are not both financially and time wise. A smart marketer knows where the people that want and have the means to buy their product.


If good marketing was taking advantage of any medium, you'd see Coca cola advertising in the classifieds of every little hicktown local paper in the world and on the back of shopper Dockets.

Smart marketers know where NOT to waste their time and money.

Originally Posted by Glort Right. An enquiry is nice and a step in the right direction but what counts is sales. Did the person that enquired actually come in for a session and then buy pics? If they did, terrific. If they didn't, then enquirys are like likes. They might give you the warm and fuzzys but they don't pay the bills. Do you actually know how many people have paid you to shoot for them that liked you on face waste and what their average spend has been? If not, then you have a lot to learn about marketing your business.

90% of my senior portraits come from facebook. My senior average *not counting senior spokesmodels* is $800 at this point. My average for senior models is $215 at this point, and there should be some nice print orders come in before the school year is out unless they refer me a lot of customers then they will get a bunch of freebies.

Sales are great, but if you dont have customers then its hard to get sales. As I said before facebook may not work for every photography market, but there are plenty of markets it will work for. And for people to know your name, you need exposure. Limiting that exposure is just plain stupidity.

Originally Posted by Glort Errr, not even close. A smart marketer knows which mediums apply and are effective for their business and which are not both financially and time wise. A smart marketer knows where the people that want and have the means to buy their product. If good marketing was taking advantage of any medium, you'd see Coca cola advertising in the classifieds of every little hicktown local paper in the world and on the back of shopper Dockets. Smart marketers know where NOT to waste their time and money.

My answer to this is: https://www.facebook.com/cocacola

Also, I recal seeing the coca cola sign on many buildings in small towns, and have been on these buildings for 40 years giving constant exposure and advertising. They are also on the paper placemats in many resteraunts, a free or very cheap form of advertising.

Werent you struggling in photography not to long ago until you found the swimming school niche?

Originally Posted by GerryDavid 90% of my senior portraits come from facebook. My senior average *not counting senior spokesmodels* is $800 at this point. My average for senior models is $215 at this point, and there should be some nice print orders come in before the school year is out unless they refer me a lot of customers then they will get a bunch of freebies. Sales are great, but if you dont have customers then its hard to get sales. As I said before facebook may not work for every photography market, but there are plenty of markets it will work for. And for people to know your name, you need exposure. Limiting that exposure is just plain stupidity.

If it works for you that's great.
With something like senior portraits, I would think a more direct route would get you more work still but if face waste is your thing, terrific. If you can pull clients in that market from face waste, I guarantee I could pull in a lot more NOT using it.

We don't have the senior thing here but isn't that pretty seasonal?
Also, have you equated your Facewaste likes to the number of clients that come in and book because they liked you? From what I have seen everyone takes it as a more as better thing but I have never seen anyone come up with any sort of conversion rate.
With the marketing research I have read, it all seems to say there is little to no correlation of likes to sales and that buying these likes ( however that works) is a dead loss.

My answer to this is: https://www.facebook.com/cocacola Also, I recal seeing the coca cola sign on many buildings in small towns, and have been on these buildings for 40 years giving constant exposure and advertising. They are also on the paper placemats in many resteraunts, a free or very cheap form of advertising.

That is an entirely different thing to what I said about classifieds in local papers but it is a good example of being able to recognise the difference between a good marketing avenue and one that's not.
Some people will see the difference and would be able to market effectively to the same audience and some would think they could do the same in avenues that would lead to marketing failures.
I think you have well illustrated how easily that can happen.

Werent you struggling in photography not to long ago until you found the swimming school niche?

I was struggling with my health first and foremost. That effected me in ways I am still realising and coming to terms with. I started the first school in March of this year then couldn't do any more till August because I was not near being up to it.

Now I have my health better restored I have been taking on a variety of markets.
The school work as a Niche for the business has well past already. I'm booked out with that for the next 6 months and have put on 3 staff and am looking for more to cover it. I have sewn up the 3 major players for that and am now talking to them about doing their interstate facilities as well. The reality is they are ready for me to start next week, I'm still trying to figure out and getting advise on how to structure the business for it. The growth has been far quicker than would I would have ever envisaged and that creates problems and potential pitfals aplenty.


My Charity/ corporate work has kicked off again. I had a previous client come back to me to shoot a real short notice job and as soon as I did that I networked with the venue and have been picking up heaps of work from them and 2 other facilities owned by the same group.

I'm also in the process of setting up another avenue of event work to what I did before. I got an idea for it, crunched the numbers and spoke to the appropriate businesses and got them onboard.
I am confident I can make over $1k a weekend at each of the 4 different sites I have lined up. Needless to say, I won't be doing any of it, it will all be done by hired help.

None of what I have set up has been advertised at all so far.
People seem to forget with all this Social networking hype that the most effective promotion and advertising of all for localised enterprises is still to get out and knock on doors and get face to face with people.
I walked into places with the school work and sewed up contracts worth a lot of money and now I'm doing the same with other things I want to take on.

While I appreciate face waste may work for you, it's not the only marketing avenue out there and would do absoloutley Jack all for my markets.
For some reason, many people seem to think that being liked and having a pretty page on face waste is the be all and end all of marketing these days.

They are poorly misguided.

Originally Posted by Glort If it works for you that's great. With something like senior portraits, I would think a more direct route would get you more work still but if face waste is your thing, terrific.

What direct route would you take to get the senior portraits? :)

Originally Posted by Glort Errr, not even close. A smart marketer knows which mediums apply and are effective for their business and which are not both financially and time wise. A smart marketer knows where the people that want and have the means to buy their product. If good marketing was taking advantage of any medium, you'd see Coca cola advertising in the classifieds of every little hicktown local paper in the world and on the back of shopper Dockets. Smart marketers know where NOT to waste their time and money.

Well, this conversation is getting a little silly I think.

FREE advertising to 100+ of my potential customers that is set up in minutes (probably less time than it took to type those lengthy replies). I'm not suggesting this be your only marketing strategy or that you should use it. Of course it would be silly to BUY classified ads in a paper that no one in my market reads.

By the way, you can find Coca-Cola on Facebook, Twitter, their website, Flicker, and YouTube.