Andy/Baldy - feed me

[Baldy]

Hey Ann,

No worries about the hijack, it's a fascinating and important topic.

My understanding is evidence is mounting but it is contentious. The Finns, who used to have the lowest life expectancy among industrialized countries for men (58) until the government launched a big educational campaign against the risks of dairy, have been doing research about this for years:

http://www.sciencenews.org/pages/sn_...26_99/fob2.htm

My understanding is they came out with another report July 30th that added more weight to the case.

Another observation made widely is that infants with high growth are more susceptible: http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/406006

And we know cow's milk promotes a lot of growth. It's designed by nature with many growth hormones to make calves grow really fast, but even calves don't stay on milk long.

Finally, Neal Barnard has published a lot of books and research about reversing diabetes. Even the Dairy Council has trouble refuting the success he's had, so they try to discredit other things about him like his possible link to PETA. Anyway, he's sounding the alarm loudly and often about dairy and even the New York Times ran a story about it today:

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...5AC0A964958260

You can see from the article how contentious it is.

[DavidTO]

Here's another hijack:

I've started The Omnivore's Dilemma, a fascinating in-depth look at where our food comes from. It's a great read, so far.

[Ann McRae]

Thanks Baldy - this report:

Originally Posted by Baldy

http://www.sciencenews.org/pages/sn_...26_99/fob2.htm

is a good read - data, theory and experiment with control, the kind of thing I can understand.

Its funny - I am lactose intolerant and have only started forcing myself to drink milk as an adult - the oesteoporosis argument. My daughter is also lactose intolerant but has learned to eat yogurt. My diabetic kid gave up milk products when he gave up bottles(long after he gave up nursing), and the diabetes dietician he sees regularly chastises us about that. My oldest drinks litres and litres of milk!!!

In any case, in our instance, the damage has been done by whatever trigger or triggers set off Alex's immune system. I actually suspect some of us are more susceptible to autoimmune reactions than others - arthritis, multiple sclerosis, diabetes, lupus, etc - some families have lots of these, others none.

ann

[Ann McRae]

Hey David

A couple of tidbits (without supporting evidence )
1. The number of species of vegetables produced and eaten in North America has decreased radically (800%?) in the last century.

2. Canadian cows milk cannot be sold if it contains any extra hormones or antibiotics. Apparently the regulators test every batch!

ann

Originally Posted by DavidTO

Here's another hijack:

I've started The Omnivore's Dilemma, a fascinating in-depth look at where our food comes from. It's a great read, so far.

[DavidTO]

Originally Posted by Ann McRae

Hey David

A couple of tidbits (without supporting evidence )
1. The number of species of vegetables produced and eaten in North America has decreased radically (800%?) in the last century.

2. Canadian cows milk cannot be sold if it contains any extra hormones or antibiotics. Apparently the regulators test every batch!

ann

What I've learned so far: corn is friggin' everywhere. EVERY-WHERE. The greatest invention by man (chemical fertilizer) was also invented by the man that created the gas for the gas chambers in WWII, a jew who converted to christianity, but had to escape Germany in the 30's. If not for chemical fertilizers, 2 of 5 people would not be alive today.

Oh, and corn? It's everywhere.

[Mike Lane]

I thought this was an interesting read.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/kno...page=fullpage#

[Baldy]

Originally Posted by DavidTO

Here's another hijack:

I've started The Omnivore's Dilemma, a fascinating in-depth look at where our food comes from. It's a great read, so far.

Not a hijack. That's a great and fascinating book. Whole Foods blames that book for cutting their stock in half over the last 18 months. I've read the Whole Foods rebuttal and want to believe them because I like Whole Foods, but the Ominvore's Dilemma has the facts on its side.

The bottom line is if you expect claims like free range to mean what you think they mean, you're gonna be disappointed.

[Baldy]

Originally Posted by Ann McRae

Its funny - I am lactose intolerant and have only started forcing myself to drink milk as an adult - the oesteoporosis argument.

My impression is that argument is just about over, no? http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...43/ai_19986663

Although there is very little evidence that it reduces the risk of osteoporosis (and a lot of evidence suggesting it increases the risk), I sometimes hear about other benefits. One study suggested it was pretty good at lowering blood pressure when coupled with a diet of fruits and veggies, but I dunno If I'd take that to the bank. You don't see many people eating lots of fruits and veggies sans dairy with elevated blood pressure.

[Angelo]

Originally Posted by Baldy

My impression is that argument is just about over, no? http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...43/ai_19986663

Although there is very little evidence that it reduces the risk of osteoporosis (and a lot of evidence suggesting it increases the risk), I sometimes hear about other benefits. One study suggested it was pretty good at lowering blood pressure when coupled with a diet of fruits and veggies, but I dunno If I'd take that to the bank. You don't see many people eating lots of fruits and veggies sans dairy with elevated blood pressure.

I haven't read your article yet but I've believed for a very long time that the human body is an ingenious, self regulating machine capable of fantastic achievements.

I know of a long standing argument by health food enthusiasts that the consumption of dairy products actually increases the problems of osteoporosis because the introduction of highly concentrated calcium and proteins from cow's milk triggers our body's defenses to shut down natural calcium production.

[Baldy]

Originally Posted by Mike Lane

I thought this was an interesting read.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/kno...page=fullpage#

Yeah, very. I think most of us can't fathom how influencial large marketing budgets can be on us. The drug Lipitor (for cholesterol) is $33 billion in gross sales annually -- that's $10 billion more than the entire book industry. The margin on Lipitor is so high that lots of dollars are available to sell physicians on prescribing it.

Food marketing budgets are just enormous.

[AnneMcBean]

New recipe up! http://dgrin.smugmug.com/gallery/3166906

I posted it exactly as I received it from my brother, Ben, with the one exception of using brown rice instead of white basmati rice (and I adjusted the cooking time accordingly).

I'm sure it's delicious as written, but I made some modifications based on what I had on hand, and the fact that I have a history of burning rice on the stove. So, just FYI... the following also work:

Instead of the 2 red bell peppers, I used a bag of Trader Joe's three-pepper blend. It's in the frozen aisle and has 1 lb. of red, yellow, orange, and green peppers all chopped up and ready to use. I just tossed a bag of that in the Vitamix.

I don't use taco seasoning, so I threw in (approximately) 1 1/2 TBS chili powder, 2 tsp cumin, 2 tsp garlic powder, 1 tsp oregano, 1/2 tsp salt, and 2 tsp paprika instead.

I put rice and the blended up broth&veggies in my rice cooker and tossed in an extra 1/4 c. rice or so (for a total of 2 1/4 c. brown rice) and just pressed "start". It was done when the rice cooker told me it was done!

Also, I had some black beans already pressure cooked, so I used those instead of canned beans.

We served this up in whole wheat tortillas with guacamole and fresh chopped tomatoes. But I've been eating the leftovers just plain, and it can be its own meal for sure. Thanks, Ben!

-Anne

[jdryan3]

I admit I haven't read the China Study, so I don't know if the answer is in there. But does anyone add protein powder to their fruit smoothies? I have read the stuff on soy, but I actually used the whey based stuff sometimes in the past.

But as a male in my mid forties, is there really any need to? I eat plenty of nuts and vegetables. If not protein, any other supplements? I haven't for a while, and it doesn't seem like I should.

[DavidTO]

No protein in my smoothie.

I take a multi-vitamin, Vitamin D3 and I put flax seeds in my smoothie. Along with spinach (ala Baldy).

[Mike Lane]

Originally Posted by jdryan3

I admit I haven't read the China Study, so I don't know if the answer is in there. But does anyone add protein powder to their fruit smoothies? I have read the stuff on soy, but I actually used the whey based stuff sometimes in the past.

But as a male in my mid forties, is there really any need to? I eat plenty of nuts and vegetables. If not protein, any other supplements? I haven't for a while, and it doesn't seem like I should.

The protein formula in the china study and eat to live is 2.5% to 5% of your calories should come from vegetable sources. Fuhrman said that every single whole foods, plant-based diet he could come up with had this amount of protein in it.

Point is: don't worry about it. Just eat mostly leafy greens, lots of fruits and other veggies and legumes, and enjoy life.

[Ann McRae]

British Study about food additives affecting behavior - not actual data, just an article, but probably not much of a surprise.

I remember the day that my first born (8 month old) son was with grandma while I worked. Walked in to get him, and she was helping him drink Pepsi from a can!!!!


Interestingly, diabetes dieticians recommend sugar free drinks (anything else beyond water has to be counted and besides... milk!, does not have much nutritional value) - of course, those drinks all contain aspartame, which is another controversial ingedient.

It really is a matter of choices to be made, and trying to get as much legitimate, valid information as possible - through all of the advertising and such.

[DJ-S1]

It is interesting to read that milk may be a contributing factor to Type 1 development. My brother got Type 1 diabetes when he was 9.

My 3-month old reminds me a bit of him - he's gotten pretty chunky and is a big kid as my brother was (at least in the pictures I've seen). My wife has been nursing and we supplement with formula when needed. At first just regular stuff but he gets pretty gassy so early on we switched to lactose-free formula. I am thinking maybe we will keep him off cow's milk altogether - something we never thought about with my other 2 boys.

Does "lactose free" = "no cow milk proteins"?

The discussion in this thread keeps getting better and better...

[Mike Lane]

Originally Posted by DJ-S1

It is interesting to read that milk may be a contributing factor to Type 1 development. My brother got Type 1 diabetes when he was 9.

My 3-month old reminds me a bit of him - he's gotten pretty chunky and is a big kid as my brother was (at least in the pictures I've seen). My wife has been nursing and we supplement with formula when needed. At first just regular stuff but he gets pretty gassy so early on we switched to lactose-free formula. I am thinking maybe we will keep him off cow's milk altogether - something we never thought about with my other 2 boys.

Does "lactose free" = "no cow milk proteins"?

The discussion in this thread keeps getting better and better...

You say you supplement with formula. Why? Just curious.

From some guy with a website I found this about lactose: "Lactose is a major type of sugar found in milk and milk products, including human milk. Lactose makes up less than eight percent of the solids in milk. Lactose is not found naturally in any other food aside from dairy products."

So no, lactose free is not the same as no cow milk proteins.

[DJ-S1]

Originally Posted by Mike Lane

You say you supplement with formula. Why? Just curious.

He's a big boy. At our 2 month check-up the doc said to my wife "good luck keeping up with him"! Also my wife has returned to work and she can't pump enough.

Thanks for the other info, I need to go figure out what kind of formula has "chopped up proteins" as in the article.

edit - well, that was easy. all the major brands have a version for babies who you suspect are "allergic to milk proteins". They break the proteins into pieces with enzymes. They also have soy-based products, but protein allergies can still occur. Of course, none of them mention suspected links to Type 1.

[stirfry]

Originally Posted by DJ-S1

He's a big boy. At our 2 month check-up the doc said to my wife "good luck keeping up with him"! Also my wife has returned to work and she can't pump enough.

Thanks for the other info, I need to go figure out what kind of formula has "chopped up proteins" as in the article.

edit - well, that was easy. all the major brands have a version for babies who you suspect are "allergic to milk proteins". They break the proteins into pieces with enzymes. They also have soy-based products, but protein allergies can still occur. Of course, none of them mention suspected links to Type 1.

I love chunky babies! All of our kids hit 20lbs just after 2months so I completely relate. We learned with the first not to waste money on those infant carseats with subsequent kids!

Pumping is hard work. I had to pump when I returned to work, too, but for an older infant. I can't even imagine how taxing it must be to try to keep up with a newborn! to your wife for doing her best and using what is available to supplement (rather than replace) her breastmilk.

(I do, however, take issue with the doctor and his unsolicited prophecies which do nothing to assist, support, or encourage a mother to continue nursing .. but that is another rant for another time LOL. If your wife would like some tips, tricks, and help boosting her supply please feel free to PM me. But I'm sure she appreciates the reprieve from pumping too, and I'm not here to judge!)

Regarding the issue of lactose, it is a milk sugar (also found in human milk FWIW). Examples of milk proteins are casein and whey, and AFAIK that is where most of the allergic-type reactions stem from. Most doctors tend to recommend a soy formula next, followed by a hypoallergenic formula. Of the hypoallergenic formulas available, the amino-acid variety would be best for a child allergic to (or avoiding) cow's milk proteins.

If it were me I'd likely do an organic soy formula I'm not all that keen on adulterated soy products, especially for babies, but I'd consider it the lesser of the two evils ... especially with a family history of Type I. Look out, though, it's nearly impossible to avoid ALL milk proteins because they are so common in everyday regular products. You'd have to shop specially (and more expensively) to avoid it altogether. But it's a great place to start, excluding it where and when you can

[DJ-S1]

The latest in Smuggy fashion! Maybe not new but it's the first I've seen of it -