Originally Posted by T. Bombadil Your point about non-profit being different than unprofitable is a good one - except in this case, the OP said it is an all volunteer organization.

"All volunteer" is still not non-profit in the IRS eyes. I seriously doubt a semi-pro football team would qualify as a charitable purpose to attain 501(c)3 status. I could be wrong about this football team, but as you noted the point of my post was just to make people aware of the difference and to maybe dig a bit deeper if they are thinking of donating services to a non-profit (Chicago or elsewhere).

and to the OP, unbunch your undies dude. Every post here has been on point, just because the majority have a different take than your original intention is part of the concept of posting on a "discussion board". JohnG has been precisely on point with every comment, including his last one on liability insurance that you either misunderstood or did not realize you should have (what happens if you are doing headshots and a lightstand tips over and hits someone in the head causing them to get stitches and miss two games? You are on the hook for $$). If another Chicago amateur wanted to join you, they would be smart to heed Johng's advice on bonding and insurance.

That kind of advice from a pro, and other opinions is what this board is for. My comments about non-profit vs. not making a profit similarly addresses your original post. If the same local Chicago shooter wanted to help out a charity and was considering your team, I would suggest they double check if it is truly a charity or just a commercial venture on a thin budget. They may still shoot your team, but they should know all the facts.

As I said in my original post if the "pay" of getting sideline access and being involved with the team is worth it to you (and it sounds like it is) then go for it. I wish you luck and hope to see some of your pics here. I do the same for my kids high school band and drama club. Others have different opinions or thoughts and they have expressed them here very professionally and politely.

Originally Posted by Photogbiker "All volunteer" is still not non-profit in the IRS eyes. I seriously doubt a semi-pro football team would qualify as a charitable purpose to attain 501(c)3 status. I could be wrong about this football team, but as you noted the point of my post was just to make people aware of the difference and to maybe dig a bit deeper if they are thinking of donating services to a non-profit (Chicago or elsewhere). and to the OP, unbunch your undies dude. Every post here has been on point, just because the majority have a different take than your original intention is part of the concept of posting on a "discussion board". JohnG has been precisely on point with every comment, including his last one on liability insurance that you either misunderstood or did not realize you should have (what happens if you are doing headshots and a lightstand tips over and hits someone in the head causing them to get stitches and miss two games? You are on the hook for $$). If another Chicago amateur wanted to join you, they would be smart to heed Johng's advice on bonding and insurance. That kind of advice from a pro, and other opinions is what this board is for. My comments about non-profit vs. not making a profit similarly addresses your original post. If the same local Chicago shooter wanted to help out a charity and was considering your team, I would suggest they double check if it is truly a charity or just a commercial venture on a thin budget. They may still shoot your team, but they should know all the facts. As I said in my original post if the "pay" of getting sideline access and being involved with the team is worth it to you (and it sounds like it is) then go for it. I wish you luck and hope to see some of your pics here. I do the same for my kids high school band and drama club. Others have different opinions or thoughts and they have expressed them here very professionally and politely.

The team I shoot for I do know for sure they are 501(c)3. I initially took the responses in a negative way and in an earlier reply I said Johng was correct. Sorry for the misunderstandings.

Originally Posted by Photogbiker "All volunteer" is still not non-profit in the IRS eyes. I seriously doubt a semi-pro football team would qualify as a charitable purpose to attain 501(c)3 status. . . .

501(c)3 status is not the only way to qualify as non-profit in the eyes of the IRS. It need not be a charitable organization to be non-profit.

You may want to donate your time only to Charities, but there are plenty of other organizations that attract volunteers, and are tax-exempt (not that tax-exempt status is a reason to volunteer).

Most professional shooters know how to deal with the original request; most amateur shooters could benefit from the experience of shooting these games.

I shot my first couple of professional games and gave away my shots to a major newspaper (that got me the credential in the first place, purely as a favor to me). From this small portfolio I got lots of paid professional gigs--more than I have time to do. This is the simple concept of a loss leader, familiar to most other businesses.

I shoot many events for free, if I am interested and there is no money available to pay a photographer. (These are all youth events, mostly at my kids' school or club teams.) However, one criterion I always apply: if giving away my work displaces another shooter, I don't give it away. End of story.

It sounds like these guys have no money to pay a photographer, so there is no harm in asking for volunteers. It may be a win-win.

Exactly!

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Still waiting to see some photos!

Someone is always getting paid somewhere non profit or not... Once my photos got "Good Enough" I got all sorts of requests, but once I asked for payment or a fee to cover my time.. I moved on and they never replied to my email.. It is a vicious cycle I don't let run my life anymore. If you are having fun more power too you, I learned the hard way someone is always making money...

FWIW NFL, NHL and PGA all file as "non-profit" organizations...figure that out!

FWIW NFL, NHL and PGA all file as "non-profit" organizations...figure that out!

Good point. They are non-profit associations, much different than a not for profit charitable enterprise. A very important distinction if you are inclined to donate your skills to a charity and not just a group that is organized under IRS codes on a non-profit basis. Other associations such as the Chamber of Commerce, Association of Watch Winders, etc. are all generally non-profit and exist only to service their members with serious rules about dues, salaries, and excess revenues. Any cash they do make in excess is distributed back to members who then have to pay taxes on it as income. I would guess the NFL is net money maker and those fees in excess get sent back to team owners who pay taxes---except for maybe Jacksonville....

The NFL has different ways of getting donated pics. "You want credentials for the game? Give me pics, or talk to Vinnie and Bobo over here in our collections department....."

Disclaimer--not an accountant, just someone with a business background and board member/chairman of charities.