Green cast from trees and grass.

insanefred · July 9, 2012

I am just wondering if any wedding photographers have some advice on this. It's really sunny here in Portland. Oregon now. That means everything green is being used as a green reflector. :cry It's ok for landscapes, but terrible for portraits and wedding work, IMO.
It seems to be most visible in the shadows under the eyelids and neck/chin areas especially on light/fair skinned and makes Asian skin look sick. So, it isn't just a white balance issue, just a color cast in the shadows.
What is the best way to avoid this? I don't want to carry a giant reflector with me every where at a wedding :rolleyes. And I want to avoid sitting behind a desk just fixing the shadows on peoples faces all day. The client/groom I am working with doesn't like stylized or over post processed photos (that's why he wanted to hire me) So, I want to avoid that. I use fill flash most of the time outdoors.

Bonus question: The bride and her family are Japanese, is there anything should know about proper etiquette? (I know sarcasm doesn't work in Japanese culture.)

unique93 · July 9, 2012

Convert photos in black and white

Qarik · July 9, 2012

your right..can't fix with simple WB. here are you options and none of them are going to be easy or flexible.

1) avoid shooting in grass with lots of sun. try and pick shaded areas.

2) go heavier with fill flash or off camera lights so that ambient light is minimized. Heavy fill flash can look bad though.

3) fix in post.."brush" out green or go monochrome for these shots.

insanefred · July 9, 2012

Qarik wrote: »

your right..can't fix with simple WB. here are you options and none of them are going to be easy or flexible.

1) avoid shooting in grass with lots of sun. try and pick shaded areas.

2) go heavier with fill flash or off camera lights so that ambient light is minimized. Heavy fill flash can look bad though.

3) fix in post.."brush" out green or go monochrome for these shots.

Shaded areas are just as bad, the trees are like thick green gels. they'll leave a lot of green cast.

insanefred · July 10, 2012

No one else has sunny days and lots of green vegetation?
Perhaps that this doesn't exist in Cali?

Matthew Saville · July 10, 2012

insanefred wrote: »

No one else has sunny days and lots of green vegetation?
Perhaps that this doesn't exist in Cali?

When I shoot under green trees, I crank my WB in the pink direction and that seems to help a bit.

Shoot in Kelvin, kick your color temp about 1,000 degrees below where you might normally be for bright sunlight, and then go into the custom WB tuning grid and kick it down in the magenta / pink direction 3-5 notches.

=Matt=

jeffreaux2 · July 10, 2012

insanefred wrote: »

I am just wondering if any wedding photographers have some advice on this. It's really sunny here in Portland. Oregon now. That means everything green is being used as a green reflector. :cry It's ok for landscapes, but terrible for portraits and wedding work, IMO.
It seems to be most visible in the shadows under the eyelids and neck/chin areas especially on light/fair skinned and makes Asian skin look sick. So, it isn't just a white balance issue, just a color cast in the shadows.
What is the best way to avoid this? I don't want to carry a giant reflector with me every where at a wedding . And I want to avoid sitting behind a desk just fixing the shadows on peoples faces all day. The client/groom I am working with doesn't like stylized or over post processed photos (that's why he wanted to hire me) So, I want to avoid that. I use fill flash most of the time outdoors.

Bonus question: The bride and her family are Japanese, is there anything should know about proper etiquette? (I know sarcasm doesn't work in Japanese culture.)

I shoot all on location and in particular try to find shade or open shade. I have a good deal of experience in these environs!

Are you using flash at all?

insanefred · July 10, 2012

jeffreaux2 wrote: »

I shoot all on location and in particular try to find shade or open shade. I have a good deal of experience in these environs!

Are you using flash at all?

Mostly use fill flash, on camera. I try to avoid dark eyes.

jeffreaux2 · July 10, 2012

insanefred wrote: »

Mostly use fill flash, on camera. I try to avoid dark eyes.

I have had VERY good results with the following.....

Try a Color correcting gel on the flash. It should be a CTB (blue) gel in shade or open shade. I use phoxle gels, but Lee, Roscoe, and sticky filters all offer these. 1/8 or 1/4 CTB is fine. Then, for an in camera white balance I set it to"cloudy". NOW - the color temp of the flash is a closer match to the color of light in a shady spot, and you have compensated for all the blue with that "cloudy" setting to warm it up. Getting the foreground and background color temps in tune will help if there are any other hue issues....allowing for a poleasing global adjustment. I usually do very little white balance correction in Lightroom when using this method. It offers great results.

The trick then is to find the right balance of ambient and flash. Remember that as you subtract ambient and increase flash, any color cast issues caused by the ambient conditions will become less apparent.

Another trick that can help is to place a large white bedsheet on the ground in front of the subject(but out of the frame) so that a source of clean reflected light is available.

Open shade is always better than the deep shade of trees and vegetation.

Good luck!

tenoverthenose · July 10, 2012

Yeah, shooting around greenery sucks if you care about white balance. A reflector won't really help, because it will just reflect more of the green at your subject.

Outside of white balance tricks, you have two options:
(1) Subtractive lighting. Try to cover as much of the green stuff with a black cloth or gobo to remove the tint. This actually works wonders and isn't that tough. For example, if your subject is sitting in grass, I use the black cover of my umbrella on the ground in front of them to stop the green reflection.

(2) Add light. Overpower the mixed color ambient light with your own light. This is what I normally do and it works wonders, but you may still notice a bit of green in the shadows depending on your ratio & dynamic range.

insanefred · July 10, 2012

Here is an example of what I am talking about. It isn't the entire scene that get's a green cast. That would be too easy. Or even matching up with flash.

My lovely girl friend posing for the example.

Look under her chin, mouth and eye sockets.
See that green cast? That is what I am trying to avoid.

FWIW, photo was taken with no flash and using a shoot through umbrella as a baffle. With direct sunlight other wise. (just after high noon)

insanefred · July 11, 2012

*bump

tenoverthenose · July 11, 2012

In addition to what I said earlier, getting rid of the shoot thru umbrella in the photograph above would help to get rid of the color cast. Keep the strength and color of your light sources in mind.

insanefred · July 11, 2012

tenoverthenose wrote: »

In addition to what I said earlier, getting rid of the shoot thru umbrella in the photograph above would help to get rid of the color cast. Keep the strength and color of your light sources in mind.

Weird, I didn't even see your post. You must be a ninja.

Just to paraphrase what you said...

tenoverthenose wrote: »

Yeah, shooting around greenery sucks if you care about white balance. A reflector won't really help, because it will just reflect more of the green at your subject.

Outside of white balance tricks, you have two options:
(1) Subtractive lighting. Try to cover as much of the green stuff with a black cloth or gobo to remove the tint. This actually works wonders and isn't that tough. For example, if your subject is sitting in grass, I use the black cover of my umbrella on the ground in front of them to stop the green reflection.

(2) Add light. Overpower the mixed color ambient light with your own light. This is what I normally do and it works wonders, but you may still notice a bit of green in the shadows depending on your ratio & dynamic range.

1: I should just use a black cloth to cover the grass so it just simply doesn't reflect at all?
I figured this much would work, but like I said. I can't carry this gear all day. Sounds like the only time I can do this to avoid the green cast is during formals/family photos. Oh well.

2: see above.

Moogle Pepper · July 11, 2012

insanefred wrote: »

Weird, I didn't even see your post. You must be a ninja.

Pat is one of the l33t ninjas on dgrin.

tenoverthenose · July 11, 2012

insanefred wrote: »

1: I should just use a black cloth to cover the grass so it just simply doesn't reflect at all?
I figured this much would work, but like I said. I can't carry this gear all day. Sounds like the only time I can do this to avoid the green cast is during formals/family photos. Oh well.

2: see above.

In short, what you want to do is minimize the amount of green ambient light hitting your subject. Covering up the ground and other directly reflected areas with black cloth will help this (the black will reflect as black, not green). Of course, this will make for a more contrasty image, so season it to taste.

When I say add light, I mean add a lot of light! As in underexpose the image by two or three stops, then light your subject up. Granted, this won't look great with an on camera flash, so some (probably) expensive gear and practice is going to be needed here. But if you've got the setup, this is how I would do it. In fact, this is how I do it

Here's a recent example:

insanefred · July 12, 2012

tenoverthenose wrote: »

In short, what you want to do is minimize the amount of green ambient light hitting your subject. Covering up the ground and other directly reflected areas with black cloth will help this (the black will reflect as black, not green). Of course, this will make for a more contrasty image, so season it to taste.

When I say add light, I mean add a lot of light! As in underexpose the image by two or three stops, then light your subject up. Granted, this won't look great with an on camera flash, so some (probably) expensive gear and practice is going to be needed here. But if you've got the setup, this is how I would do it. In fact, this is how I do it

Here's a recent example:

That image looks good. Perhaps a gray blanket?

I don't have the moneyz for a whole lot of my own light right now.

Demian · July 12, 2012

Have you tried the hue/saturation adjustment in photoshop? Worked just fine for the picture you posted, IMO.

zoomer · July 12, 2012

In those conditions I always use some flash, that balances out the green even if it barely contributes to the light of the scene.
If that is not possible, carry something white with you (of course at a wedding this is always available in your shot). Select all your photos and click on the white with the Lightroom eyedropper, that will get you very close on most of the shots. If necessary on various individual shots adjust as necessary as you continue processing...be sure to get a nice bright exposure which also helps a lot.

Mainly: seems obvious... but choose settings that are not in that dark shade green light (direct the people don't let them direct you), use some flash (best way, even a slight amount of fill flash with on camera flash works....of course not ideal), in processing click on something white in Lightroom with the eyedropper for ranges of photos in the same light and WB.

tenoverthenose · July 12, 2012

insanefred wrote: »

That image looks good. Perhaps a gray blanket?

I don't have the moneyz for a whole lot of my own light right now.

Exactly. Cover up the greenery that is closest to your subject. For example, if they are sitting on the grass, cover up the grass directly below them between them and your camera.

Or just move someplace else where this isn't an issue. If you want greenery in your background (or foreground) use a telephoto lens for compression and move your subject out of the green stuff. Here's an example, with natural light. The couple is at least 20 feet from the nearest tree standing in brown dead grass.

divamum · July 12, 2012

tenoverthenose wrote: »

Light is obviously from camera right, but how'd you light her and not overlight the tree? Also, what are you using for that kind of throw - is that your quad bracket set up?

tenoverthenose · July 13, 2012

divamum wrote: »

Light is obviously from camera right, but how'd you light her and not overlight the tree? Also, what are you using for that kind of throw - is that your quad bracket set up?

Actually this one was lit in weird way that I rarely use. She is standing in the shade of the tree with almost no direct light on her, at least 10 feet away from the trunk. I wanted it to look natural (even though it wasn't) so I used long throw reflector on my Quadra from about 15 feet away. It's got a pretty tight pattern even without a grid, so it was easy to aim it away from the tree. I fired it through some other tree branches and a few leaves to act as a cookie and break up the light a little bit.

So yeah, I used a lot of power to make this happen but I could probably do something similar with a speed light.

Green cast from trees and grass.

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