what happens to any sales money if I don't "upgrade" to a Pro account? do i get any portion of that?

No, you can not receive any profit unless you are at the Business plan (aka Pro). If you are not at the Pro account then photos are offered for sale at our default prices. These prices are very very low, typically just a few cents over the price the lab would charge. In some cases they are even lower than the lab prices. So to answer your question, there really isn't any profit here and the money just goes to the lab to cover the cost of the product.

You have options though....
1- if you have a Power acct (and maybe with the New Portfolio acct aslo)... use PayPal or Google checkout and self fulfill it can done thru customization....
2- move to Zenfolio and be able to make a profit with a $120/yr account or other service provider....
moving to Zen is really easy using Upload Junction....

Im very happy with zen! It was easy to put together a decent looking functional site in very little time.

www.atimetodancephotos.com

Originally Posted by zacHer0 No, you can not receive any profit unless you are at the Business plan (aka Pro). If you are not at the Pro account then photos are offered for sale at our default prices. These prices are very very low, typically just a few cents over the price the lab would charge. In some cases they are even lower than the lab prices. So to answer your question, there really isn't any profit here and the money just goes to the lab to cover the cost of the product.

I see a tremendous glitch in this. No one will know if any of their photos are sold and they might be
required by their state law to report state sale tax. After all, it is their copyrighted products that are being sold.

I'm not sure how to set-up a paypal or google checkout system and self-fullfill. I've only sold a few things on here, so it's not like i have a "business" nor a "Pro". I was looking at zenfolio and a couple other sites, but I like the customization and feel of smugmug, (I spent a lot of time figuring out how to write the code for the look I wanted, lol). it seems that zen has the same customization and can have the same look. other sites seem very plain and boring with no customizations.

Originally Posted by zacHer0 No, you can not receive any profit unless you are at the Business plan (aka Pro). If you are not at the Pro account then photos are offered for sale at our default prices. These prices are very very low, typically just a few cents over the price the lab would charge. In some cases they are even lower than the lab prices. So to answer your question, there really isn't any profit here and the money just goes to the lab to cover the cost of the product.

So you guys lose money on those photo sales? Maybe you should let everyone set their own prices and collect your 15% then!

Originally Posted by Allen I see a tremendous glitch in this. No one will know if any of their photos are sold and they might be required by their state law to report state sale tax. After all, it is their copyrighted products that are being sold.

never really thought about that aspect or point of view. how can you sell a person's copyrighted product without compensation to the owner of that product?

Originally Posted by Allen I see a tremendous glitch in this. No one will know if any of their photos are sold and they might be required by their state law to report state sale tax. After all, it is their copyrighted products that are being sold.

It's been this way since the beginning. If taxes need to be paid either SmugMug takes care of it or the person buying the product does at checkout. If someone doesn't want to offer prints for sale at the default prices they can always turn off printing in the gallery settings

Originally Posted by speric I'm not sure how to set-up a paypal or google checkout system and self-fullfill. I've only sold a few things on here, so it's not like i have a "business" nor a "Pro". I was looking at zenfolio and a couple other sites, but I like the customization and feel of smugmug, (I spent a lot of time figuring out how to write the code for the look I wanted, lol). it seems that zen has the same customization and can have the same look. other sites seem very plain and boring with no customizations.

There are a few useful threads on this in this forum :).

http://dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=77...oogle+checkout
http://dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=11...oogle+checkout

Originally Posted by speric never really thought about that aspect or point of view. how can you sell a person's copyrighted product without compensation to the owner of that product?

You agree to it when you sign up. I just remove the "buy" button from all my galleries, not because I want to deny Smugmug the few cents they might make, but because I am NOT selling myself it confuses people who visit my galleries.

But I know I gave Smugmug permission as I read the terms and conditions. And I originally liked people being able to get prints easily here, but people were confused. I had complaints that I was selling commercially (when I said I did not), and demands to "expedite" and "where can I pick up prints". It was easier to just turn it off. I do wish it could be a site-wide default as I have to remember for each new gallery, but I also have to set up other stuff, so no big deal.

Originally Posted by Allen I see a tremendous glitch in this. No one will know if any of their photos are sold and they might be required by their state law to report state sale tax. After all, it is their copyrighted products that are being sold.

That's not true. If you are not a party to the transaction, the state will have a very hard time holding you liable for sales tax.

In a sense what you are doing is licensing your images to Smugmug to permit them to sell them. If Smugmug paid you for that privilege you may owe taxes on that fee. If Smugmug was paying you a commission it may be even more muddy, but as you are not involved in the resale, I think there is no sales tax issue.

I am not a lawyer. This is not legal advice. And even if I am 100% correct that doesn't necessarily keep some idiot at some state from trying. But I am pretty confident I am right.

What boggles my mind is what people THOUGHT was happening with the buy button?

And come on Smugmug -- stop trying to tell me you sell below cost. If you do, then stop. You make money when you sell prints from non-pro users. You should. Don't pretend otherwise.

Originally Posted by Ferguson And come on Smugmug -- stop trying to tell me you sell below cost. If you do, then stop. You make money when you sell prints from non-pro users. You should. Don't pretend otherwise.

We don't always, sometimes our cost is higher than the Lab charges. You can usually look at their prices on their websites and compare. We negotiate a contract with them and pay $X for X years... if they raise their prices to the public then we are selling below cost. Again, it's pennies in most cases

Originally Posted by zacHer0 We don't always, sometimes our cost is higher than the Lab charges. You can usually look at their prices on their websites and compare. We negotiate a contract with them and pay $X for X years... if they raise their prices to the public then we are selling below cost. Again, it's pennies in most cases

What they sell at retail for, and what you pay them for fulfilling SM orders, I assume is different.

That SM may be selling for less than the lab charges retail is an interesting fact, but is not the same as saying that SM is selling "below cost" (implying you are taking a loss).

If you are ACTUALLY paying more for the print to the lab than you are charging the consumer (including contributions from shipping or handling), then you need a new business manager.

If you are just trying to be disingenuous, you need to reconsider. I doubt anyone here in business, and most not in business, really think you are running a charity, and if you process a transaction you should make something on it.

If you are trying to say "we make it possible for you to buy from the lab cheaper through our services than you can in many cases direct" - say that. Nice deal.

But if you really are paying more to the lab than we pay you, CHANGE YOUR PRICE. I don't want my subscription going up to fund stupid below-cost sale of prints. But I'm pretty sure that's not the case.

That's not true. If you are not a party to the transaction, the state will have a very hard time holding you liable for sales tax. In a sense what you are doing is licensing your images to Smugmug to permit them to sell them. If Smugmug paid you for that privilege you may owe taxes on that fee. If Smugmug was paying you a commission it may be even more muddy, but as you are not involved in the resale, I think there is no sales tax issue. I am not a lawyer. This is not legal advice. And even if I am 100% correct that doesn't necessarily keep some idiot at some state from trying. But I am pretty confident I am right. What boggles my mind is what people THOUGHT was happening with the buy button? And come on Smugmug -- stop trying to tell me you sell below cost. If you do, then stop. You make money when you sell prints from non-pro users. You should. Don't pretend otherwise.

Ferguson,
In Texas the person who holds the copyright is the person responsible for collecting any sales tax due. So yes, this is really a glitch for some states.

Photographers and Texas Sales Tax

Originally Posted by MomaZunk Ferguson, In Texas the person who holds the copyright is the person responsible for collecting any sales tax due. So yes, this is really a glitch for some states. Photographers and Texas Sales Tax

I am not a lawyer, but I still believe this does not apply. The relevant section describes hosting companies that do not obtain copyright, but it also describes them clearly as acting as a fulfillment agent for the photographer where the photographer gets money ("The company might receive a fee for each picture ordered, or may retain part of the customers’ payments.").

Consider a case such as this - you photograph a mascot for a football team. You hold copyright, but license the image to the team and they make buttons and t-shirts and sell them far and wide. Are you as the copyright holder required to pay sales tax for each t-shirt?

Or closer to this example - you license it to a postcard vendor, who puts them in every Walgreens in Texas, would you as the copyright holder be responsible for sales tax on the postcard sale (which is basically a small print)? In fact this is very similar to what you are doing for Smugmug -- except they aren't paying for this license (I am sure there is legal "consideration" in their terms however).

I think at its core, the issue is 'sale'. You are not making a sale. You aren't even bartering or receiving any other value for the sale made. I don't think all the fine print applies as I don't think you even get past the issue 'did a sale occur involving you'.

I am not a lawyer, consult a real one and get advice. But I still believe my original statement.