[FONT=Verdana]On 10/20/09 I asked the following question:[/FONT]
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[FONT=Verdana]“I am curious about how these coupons will work with respect to my account and commissions. For instance: say I give a client a photo credit of $10 and they purchase $20 worth of images. Would SM keep a 15% commission of $10 or $20?”[/FONT]
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[FONT=Verdana]“[/FONT][FONT=Verdana]Originally Posted by Baldy
To answer a couple of questions: We only take our percentage on the sale amount after the coupon is applied.”[/FONT]
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[FONT=Verdana]Baldy later followed that up with: “[/FONT][FONT=Verdana]Thanks for the example. Our guiding principle is that 97% of people will be fair. Yes, the Blair Witch filmmakers shot the film on camcorders that they returned to Circuit City after shooting the film, but they're the 3%. We hate to make the system harder for the honest.”[/FONT]
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[FONT=Verdana]Now today, I was reading your coupon help section and I saw this:[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana]“In the case of a print credit, the base cost of the prints as well as SmugMug's 15% share of any markup would be charged to your card on file.”[/FONT]
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[FONT=Verdana]If this is indeed true, I am extremely irritated with this decision. I asked this specific question and based on the answers I received, planned my strategy accordingly. What a waist of time. Since Pros set our own prices, it shouldn’t make any difference to SM what the “markup” is. It’s the after coupon/credit “profit” that should matter. I would really like to hear an explanation from SM for this decision.[/FONT]

Originally Posted by echmrr [FONT=Verdana]...[/FONT][FONT=Verdana]“[/FONT][FONT=Verdana]Originally Posted by Baldy To answer a couple of questions: We only take our percentage on the sale amount after the coupon is applied.”[/FONT][FONT=Verdana][/FONT][FONT=Verdana]... ...Now today, I was reading your coupon help section and I saw this:[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana]“In the case of a print credit, the base cost of the prints as well as SmugMug's 15% share of any markup would be charged to your card on file.”[/FONT]

I reacted to this too but then I thought, they have to make some money, for providing the service. It does feel strange though, that if I make no profit, SmugMug will take theirs out of me.

Malte

I have a pro account but don't use it as pro's would 'cause I'm not a pro photog. So I don't set any prices on my pages, I just use the ones that are there to get prints for myself. I think the following works, but just want to confirm it.

So even though I just leave the default prices in place there is no reason I can't give coupons to my family or friends, for example when I take pictures at a nephews birthday party. They pick the pictures, coffee mugs, whatever they want and I end up paying for them, so it ends up being a gift from me to them. And maybe for free somebody would want one of my pictures

Also I guess I don't see why coupons are restricted to Pro accounts. I think quite a few people would like to gift their parents/children/relatives some really well processed prints of the pictures they have taken and a coupon would be a great way to do this. It would be like sending them a department store gift card only a lot more personal.

It seems like from SmugMug's point of view non-Pro coupons would get more print sales from non-Pro accounts? Gift cards work for retail stores, why wouldn't they work for SmugMug?

Originally Posted by echmrr Now today, I was reading your coupon help section and I saw this: “In the case of a print credit, the base cost of the prints as well as SmugMug's 15% share of any markup would be charged to your card on file.” If this is indeed true, I am extremely irritated with this decision. I asked this specific question and based on the answers I received, planned my strategy accordingly. What a waist of time. Since Pros set our own prices, it shouldn’t make any difference to SM what the “markup” is. It’s the after coupon/credit “profit” that should matter. I would really like to hear an explanation from SM for this decision.

Because at the top of the page is this: Print Credit - This functions just like a gift card. If a customer does not use it up in an order, the balance will remain to use on future orders. You can optionally set a start and end date for its use.

The way I took that, they're assuming if you're giving a Print Credit coupon, you're selling it as a gift card. So in other words, Person A buys a gift card from you for $100. They give it to Person B for Christmas who then goes and spends it on your site. As far as what get's spent, this is no different from Person A buying photos from your site, and then giving those to Person B (Except Person B wouldn't get to choose the photos).

If you look back at the options, Print Credit and Amount Off seem to be identical, other than deciding whether SM gets some profit. The intent seems to be that Amount Off would be used as a coupon, and Print Credit would be used as a gift certificate (that you would sell for face value!) This is where the assumption that 97% of people will be honest comes in (e.g. assuming you're not going to sell Amount Off coupons as gift certificates to bypass giving SM any of the profit.)

Originally Posted by Malte I reacted to this too but then I thought, they have to make some money, for providing the service. It does feel strange though, that if I make no profit, SmugMug will take theirs out of me. Malte

I'm sorry Baldy's initial response doesn't jive with how we ultimately implemented print credits.

On those, we keep 15% on the markup before the print credit is applied. In the case of Amount Off and Percent Off coupons, we keep 15% of the markup AFTER the coupon is applied. The difference is, a print credit is considered a form of payment, just like a credit card.

Think of the case where we sell general SmugMug print credits (not announcing a feature, just saying hypothetically). Or a future case where we allow a bride's guest to purchase a print credit from SmugMug to give to the bride for spending on a specific pro's site. The customer pays SmugMug in those cases, and we dole out 85% profit where applicable depending on what the customer orders and from whom. The profit breakdown is still 85/15, even though a customer is using a gift card (print credit) to pay for part or all of the order, instead of a credit card.

A pro-generated print credit is essentially a back door for the pro to issue the exact same type of print credit, but restrict it to his site.

In a case where the order is for $10 worth of prints and the pro has them marked up to $110 and the customer has a $110 credit issued by the pro.... we could charge the pro $110 (for purchasing a $110 gift card) and then pay his $85 profit, but instead we are simply reducing the amount we charge him by his share of the profit. So he only owes us $25 for that gift card instead of $110 . If a bride's guest purchased that same print credit for the bride, and the bride placed the same order... we would pay the pro his $85 profit.

Any more clear now?

-Anne
SmugMug Support Hero

Originally Posted by Dan7312 I have a pro account but don't use it as pro's would 'cause I'm not a pro photog. So I don't set any prices on my pages, I just use the ones that are there to get prints for myself. I think the following works, but just want to confirm it. So even though I just leave the default prices in place there is no reason I can't give coupons to my family or friends, for example when I take pictures at a nephews birthday party. They pick the pictures, coffee mugs, whatever they want and I end up paying for them, so it ends up being a gift from me to them. And maybe for free somebody would want one of my pictures

Sounds like this would work using an Amount Off coupon that was at least the value of the item. They would still have to pay the shipping, and since you're prices are set at the base cost, you would be charged the full base cost that they saved...

Originally Posted by rsquared If you look back at the options, Print Credit and Amount Off seem to be identical, other than deciding whether SM gets some profit. The intent seems to be that Amount Off would be used as a coupon, and Print Credit would be used as a gift certificate (that you would sell for face value!) This is where the assumption that 97% of people will be honest comes in (e.g. assuming you're not going to sell Amount Off coupons as gift certificates to bypass giving SM any of the profit.)

Yep, the two can appear very similar when applied to an order, but there are some significant differences in functionality. Notably, a print credit balance can be rolled over into subsequent orders. An Amount Off coupon is fresh with every order.

-Anne
SmugMug Support Hero

But if the Amount Off was big enough it would cover the shipping too, right? The example on coupons help page shows the amount off being applied to the total cost, including shipping. It's just that if I gift something I really want to gift it.

From the help page and examples it's not clear if an At Cost coupon applies to shipping... does it?

Originally Posted by rsquared Sounds like this would work using an Amount Off coupon that was at least the value of the item. They would still have to pay the shipping, and since you're prices are set at the base cost, you would be charged the full base cost that they saved...

Originally Posted by Dan7312 But if the Amount Off was big enough it would cover the shipping too, right? The example on coupons help page shows the amount off being applied to the total cost, including shipping. It's just that if I gift something I really want to gift it. From the help page and examples it's not clear if an At Cost coupon applies to shipping... does it?

I'm not really sure how an "At Cost" coupon would apply to shipping?

The easy answer is that no coupons (including print credits) currently apply to shipping. Currently every order (except a digital download only order) would require at least some payment by credit card by the customer.

-Anne
SmugMug Support Hero

Originally Posted by Dan7312 So even though I just leave the default prices in place there is no reason I can't give coupons to my family or friends, for example when I take pictures at a nephews birthday party. They pick the pictures, coffee mugs, whatever they want and I end up paying for them, so it ends up being a gift from me to them. And maybe for free somebody would want one of my pictures

I just want to confirm that yes, coupons can/do apply to all images on your site whether they have markup or not.

-Anne
SmugMug Support Hero

Originally Posted by Dan7312 The example on coupons help page shows the amount off being applied to the total cost, including shipping.

Can you point me to where the help page gave you that impression? It's actually incorrect and I want to make sure our docs are as clear as possible. Thanks!

-Anne
SmugMug Support Hero

Originally Posted by Malte I reacted to this too but then I thought, they have to make some money, for providing the service. It does feel strange though, that if I make no profit, SmugMug will take theirs out of me.

Are you getting your Pro account free?

Putting the following together

Without a coupon, the customer would pay $114.95,

If that customer had a $10 off coupon, they would pay $104.95


It's not clear what the $10 is being applied to. A better example might be:

Without a coupon, the customer would pay $114.95,

If that customer had a $200 off coupon, they would pay $4.95 (for shipping)

That way it's obvious coupons are not applied to shipping. Also saying specifically on the help page that coupons do not apply to shipping would help too.

It might be nice if the coupons themselves said "Do not apply to shipping" just to set the expectations of the customer who receives the coupon.

Originally Posted by AnneMcBean Can you point me to where the help page gave you that impression? It's actually incorrect and I want to make sure our docs are as clear as possible. Thanks! -Anne SmugMug Support Hero

Just wanted to give you a heads up about a funny little bug. When I click on the box to title a new coupon, I get a drop-down with all my titles from pm's I've sent. Bizarre, but kinda cute....

One question I haven't seen an answer to...

If I have an outstanding profit balance, will that be tapped instead of a credit card in the event of an upside down order (credit larger than profit)?

Seems silly for SM to charge $5 to my CC (and incur the processing charges) rather than simply deducting the amount of unpaid profit on my account.

Are you just doing a sceen capture there, Andy?

Originally Posted by Andy We may add such a feature, but here's one way right now

Never mind , I guess I didn't make it all the way to the bottom of the help page

Originally Posted by Dan7312 Putting the following together Also saying specifically on the help page that coupons do not apply to shipping would help too.

thought / request:

The graphic that you have created for the coupons are quite nice. I'd like to be able to email that graphic, and specifically, I'd like to be able to email that, through smugmug, to all or select previous customers (retaining the customURL.com branding, of course). Is that possible or in the works? Create a coupon and distribute it to those who have purchased from you in the past?

Originally Posted by AnneMcBean I'm sorry Baldy's initial response doesn't jive with how we ultimately implemented print credits. On those, we keep 15% on the markup before the print credit is applied. In the case of Amount Off and Percent Off coupons, we keep 15% of the markup AFTER the coupon is applied. The difference is, a print credit is considered a form of payment, just like a credit card.

Thanks for the explanation Anne. The fact that print credits were programed as a payment method now makes sense as to why the commission works the way it does. After looking everything closer, I should be able to achieve what I wanted with an amonut off coupon. Thanks!

Originally Posted by sskoutas thought / request: The graphic that you have created for the coupons are quite nice. I'd like to be able to email that graphic, and specifically, I'd like to be able to email that, through smugmug, to all or select previous customers (retaining the customURL.com branding, of course). Is that possible or in the works? Create a coupon and distribute it to those who have purchased from you in the past?

I used screen capture, converted to jpg, re-uploaded to a gallery, and mailed them out like a photo using the Share button. Cumbersome, but workable.

Hopefully a future refinement will simplify this - but, I am truly glad to have them out before Christmas!