Who pays whom for event coverage?

[Glort]

Great to hear you did so well Snow!
There is nothing like the feeling of being completely drained after doing one of those shows but being amazed at how well it went.

Have well earned rest then let us know all about it.

[zooexplorer]

This a comment for a earlier post in the thread. If you want examples of events where photography is highly restricted and banned for most look in to the preforming arts. Dance competitions I attend its expected there to be no cameras, primarily a fear of competitor figuring out the dance moves and using them.

Sorry to chime in late in the thread.

[Snowgirl]

Over $3500 was raised at the third annual January Thaw Equine Expo for the local chapter of the Children's Wish Foundation. This was the third annual January Thaw Equine Expo and the event has grown dramatically in that short time. There were over 50 exhibitor booths (and a waiting list for exhibit space), a series of educational seminars offered throughout the day, and an opportunity for people from across the horse community throughout the province to come together and enjoy a day of camaraderie. Between visitors and exhibitors close to 750 people attended the one-day event.

The only opportunity I had to take photos of the booths was early on in the morning when everyone (including me) was still setting up. Consequently, many of the booths don't appear completely 'finished', but the visitors began coming in well before the 9 a.m. opening time and the flow was steady all day. My photos are in a gallery if you'd care to have a look. Just follow the link.

http://imagesbyceci.smugmug.com/Even...72112476_6bB5r

All said and done, it went well. I ended up with 66 solid contacts out of which 43 are good leads, so I'm quite happy. Also, it was a chance for additional exposure to the group, particularly some stables, disciplines and breed associations.

Although the photo of my booth looks a tad in disarray (in set-up stage), in fact I ended up with many compliments on the quality of my photos and inquiries as to whether or not I'd be willing to travel to different locations to do photo shoots (duh - yes!).

In one case a person wanted me to travel to her daughter's university to take photos of her and her horse. In fairness to the customer, I recommended another photographer who lives within a few miles of the university (it's in another province). Although I was flattered to be asked, I didn't think it would be fair to charge more for travel and expenses than the photos! (If it were a wedding or even a graduation, that'd be different) Plus - for me to do it would take 2+ days when you factor in the travel. I'm sure the person I recommended will do a bang-up job for the lady.

As the A&E commercial says, it was "time well spent".

OH - AND I won the exhibitor door prize of two month's free advertising on the region's most popular equine website!

[Glort]

Well done Snow!
I'm glad to hear the effort paid off. I'm sure you'll be able to turn lots of these leads into profitable work. Original and different concepts always go down well as people are always wanting something new, different and original.

It's amazing in your photos just how similar some of the stands were there to what I have seen at country shows and fairs here.
Hopefully you got a got mailing list from the show and you can now work that and get even more leads.

Sounds like the year is off to a great start for you!

[Snowgirl]

Originally Posted by Glort

Well done Snow!
I'm glad to hear the effort paid off. I'm sure you'll be able to turn lots of these leads into profitable work. Original and different concepts always go down well as people are always wanting something new, different and original.

It's amazing in your photos just how similar some of the stands were there to what I have seen at country shows and fairs here.
Hopefully you got a got mailing list from the show and you can now work that and get even more leads.

Sounds like the year is off to a great start for you!

Thanks Glort. And yes, I did develop a new mailing list as well so we're off to the races, as 'they' say :)

[TEphotos]

Originally Posted by Glort

Well done Snow!
I'm glad to hear the effort paid off. I'm sure you'll be able to turn lots of these leads into profitable work. Original and different concepts always go down well as people are always wanting something new, different and original.

It's amazing in your photos just how similar some of the stands were there to what I have seen at country shows and fairs here.
Hopefully you got a got mailing list from the show and you can now work that and get even more leads.

Sounds like the year is off to a great start for you!

I agree!!!

[mercphoto]

Originally Posted by Glort

Other than that, it's all on spec selling to a relatively captive audience just the same as with the sports. My thoughts on making this venture successful are tailoring the product to the market and giving them something that will appeal and be different.

Figure that part out and this should work out well for you!

[SCP]

Originally Posted by Snowgirl

I so agree that printing on site in close-to-real-time is ideal Unfortunately, I'm a one-woman show at the moment so that's a bit tricky. I did have "office help" at one event last year and that helped with sales - although still not high enough to justify the time spent and the wage paid to the helper.

The $100 a day basically just covers my travel expenses and meals to be on-site. The only 'profit' per se is actual photo sales.

I'm still interested to see how the workflow goes for your idea, David, and also am looking at options for myself as well. Thanks a lot for your comments.

Let me tell you how to get around this.

1) Ask them provide meals for you. (At least one meal a Day. They are usually happy to provide you with lunch)
2) If you are traveling more then three hours away from home ask for a room. (Most times they are housing Judges. They don't mind adding on another room)
3) If you are traveling out of state ask for comp for gas. (.45 cents a mile) A Hotel room and a meal.

I routinely as for this and have not been turned down. In fact it is in my contracts.

[Snowgirl]

Congrats! Like you said, what a great confidence booster to have success with the first phone call - AND to successfully turn an objection into a sale! Well done and good luck. Can't wait to hear how the golfers react.

[SCP]

Originally Posted by Glort

You must do a lot different and bigger events than what I do or have even heard of!

Even the biggest international events here would not pay for travel, meals and fuel let alone the little shows we are talking about here.
I think we have a lot less shooters here but even so, there is no way you'd get them to pay you for all that as the higher level events charge the shooter for the priveledge of being there and thee is no way they would pay their expenses for the privilege.
If anyone here was to ask for that, the organizers would simply get another shooter.

Just the same, I'd like to hear how you sell yourself to get what you do and what sort of shows are hiring you. I'm sure there is something many of us could learn from how you are achieving that.

My first show of the season was a whopping ten horses at a All Breed training show. They were more then happy to provide me a meal. (Adding me to their Catering tab or Restaurant Tab)

Last December I did a Show in Loveland Colorado. I was given two meals a day and my hotel room (Along with my assistant) We were also invited to dinner with the BoD.

I have not had anyone turn me down yet. Unless they have another shooter.

Every year between September - January I start sending out Email Blasts to all my previous shows and ask them if they would like me again this year. Right now I have 5 shows lined up for all year. I am working on adding more as soon as I get Schedule conflicts out of the way. I am a one woman show, so I can't be at more then one show on any given day. (I'd love to have an assistant)

I sell between Arena Drag times, Lunch, Breaks and tack Changes. I also have the announcer announcing me all through out the show. I'm personable, friendly and I approach people. I LOVE to show riders a photo I think is amazing right on the camera. (This gets them excited. They get to touch the equipment)

Also if I have time (Usually at the end of the show) I sit down with people and edit their photos with them. They love lightroom and watching dull photos become amazing with cropping and color management. That gets them excited too.

Nine times out of ten I get prime Booth Locations. Tons of traffic. I get advertising space, Announcements in their programs, through out the show and I talk to people. I also give them photos for their websites.

This is also my third year with alot of my shows. I did not ask for compensation til last year and as of yet have not had a problem.

I am not making Fistfulls of money, but enough to make it worth my while. (Though last year was hard)

[johng]

Originally Posted by SCP

I am not making Fistfulls of money, but enough to make it worth my while. (Though last year was hard)

That's the key. After you figure in the cost of insurance/liability and taxes and depreciation on equipment (and the saving for replacement), is the money left over good enough compensation for the hours spent in the effort to shoot, process, market etc. I have to say when I factored all the real costs into the equation, the net income for event photography just wasn't enough to keep me involved. So good for those of you who are making enough profit that it's worth all of it.

[SCP]

Originally Posted by johng

That's the key. After you figure in the cost of insurance/liability and taxes and depreciation on equipment (and the saving for replacement), is the money left over good enough compensation for the hours spent in the effort to shoot, process, market etc. I have to say when I factored all the real costs into the equation, the net income for event photography just wasn't enough to keep me involved. So good for those of you who are making enough profit that it's worth all of it.

If you aren't loving what you do regardless of money coming in then you need to look at that. Is it worth the money.

For me it's worth getting out of the house, making friends, meeting clients who will use me for Farm shoots. (Which is where more profit comes in) The shows for me are all about Marketing. If I make money at them Awesome. If I get a free lunch, some new clients All the more awesome.

It's hardly a waste of time.. unless I don't give out a single business card.

[Snowgirl]

Originally Posted by Glort

Thanks Snow!
Hopefully you will be able to do much the same for your year of profitability!

Yep, Definitely different types of shows to what I cover!

The only catering at the ones I do is the canteen where you might get a steak sandwich or a hot dog and accommodation is in tents in the carpark or the horse trucks. Mind you, some of those trucks are fitted out waaaay nicer than my house!.... And some of those full size semi's I have seen, I don't think would cost all that much less either!

Your method of working might be beneficial to other people like Snow whom are currently working on their own. I couldn't do my events without help although this year I'm looking at a change of tact in the way I cover and sell them.
With the 2 day events, I'm just going to take my shooter on the first day and take pics. I can format and load them up that night and then on the second day, I'll take the computers and V stations to sell the pics because we never sell anything the first day anyhow.

Interesting the profitability point comes up. The last couple of days I have got the idea to sell my events trailer. Not so much because I don't make money out of it but because I can make money without it.

I'm moving more towards the indoor events ( few indoor arena's here) and setting my equipment up accordingly. It occurred to me that all the equine events I do ( and there will only be abut 10 locations I'll cover this year although most multiple times) have clubhouses that no one other than the scorers really use. I have started on building rolling cabinets to put all my gear in that will require no more setup than open the box, plug in power and a network cable ( and I might just go wireless yet and be done with it) and off I go.

Because I have a large annexe on the trailer and everything has to be untied tied inside and arranged from travel mode to work mode, the trailer takes at least a good 30 Min to set up and always seems a lot longer to pack up. I'm thinking that setting up in the clubhouse with a couple of boxes for the workstation and 2-3 more for the view stations won't take any longer if its not quicker and easier. At very least, once the boxes are in the clubhouse my wife and son will be able to do the rest as there will be no high, heavy lifting like there is with the trailer.

The main benefits of locating inside will be that things like glare on the monitors, wind, rain and dust will no longer be significant problems as they are now. I am thinking of building some square boxes for the Vstations with a monitor on every side so 4 to a stand. I could do them as a flat pack and sit them on tables which would mean I'd have to bring my own extended height tables to put them on or have people sitting down at the Vstations. I don't like the latter idea because people tend to get too comfortable and will fill in their time looking at every shot taken rather than their own and slow down the ability of others to have a look.

The main concern with being inside clubhouses is the lack of visibility to the patrons of the events but I think the people on the circuit work pretty much all know me by now and some investment in banners and extra signage will take care of that. I believe the people interested in buying a pic will find me and the only people I'll miss out on are the tyre kickers.

Due to other work coming on, I'm not sure how many equine events I'll bother with this year anyway so it makes sense to cash in the asset of the trailer and put the money into equipment that will allow me to better work the more profitable markets.

I originally bought a smaller trailer I was going to modify but then a few weeks later the block of flats came along that was pretty much set up for what I wanted so I bought that and have been using it. Because I got the first one at a good price and it was a sound trailer, I kept it and it will be the one I use to transport the cases I'll build the gear into in. Even if I put the same equipment in it, I'm about 600Kg better off on the towing straight away just through the different weights of the trailers themselves.

It's a lot smaller and lighter than the one I'm using now which will be so much better to tow and being a lot lower and aerodynamic, will mean it doesn't feel like towing a parachute. I will line and insulate it inside and if necessary, I can easy work in it with the gear in the cases just as I would if inside a venue. If I end up doing an event where there is no indoor facilities, at worst I can buy a good quality 6x3M marquee for about $300 and work out of that. In some ways, I think that will actually be better than the trailer setup I have now.

Once I get the rolling cases done, I'll do a couple of the horse events and see how working from the clubhouses goes. If there are no unforseen problems, I'll be able to make a space in my long but now full driveway!

Great.Let us know how all of this goes.

I'm lucky in one respect. The venue where I do most of my horse shows has an area that all of the photographers who shoot there use. It's visible from the arena and, because it's the same spot all the time, the regular competitors know to come there to see what's what.

The rolling cart view station sounds good. Lots of luck.

[Snowgirl]

Originally Posted by Glort

Had a setback today with the charity event I booked.

The organiser pulled the pin because one of the event sponsors ( a media company I think) seem to have picked up on the idea and want to provide pics for the participants themselves.

Such is life.
There are another 2 events on the same day I found so I'll see how I go lining them up. With a bit of luck, I might hook one of those and be busy that day anyhow.

I have started on the cart but progress has been a little slow. With ever day here being 35oC+ and humidity around 70-80%, I have been finding "cooler" things to. I have got the frame built and am trying to think the best way of setting up the monitor and the top of the box.

I'm thinking I can have the monitor under a lid so everything folds down flat or go for something simpler and just pack the monitor away in the box. never seen anything like this around to get any ideas from.

It's rather surprising how much space an inkjet printer requires when you put it in a box. Once you allow room for the paper feed and exit, they take up a fair chunk of space!

Pity about that. But - lesson learned. If a major sponsor is a media company - don't waste your time, eh? Or - try to subcontract through the media company as an alternative.

I saw another version of the cart that had a lift-up top such as you describe - which is a one idea. Or, for safety sake - stick with the original concept and box up the monitor when you're transporting.

Good luck. Watching with GREAT interest.

[Intella]

Reading this thread, I'm trying to grasp the last few posts, did you mean that the event that booked and then pulled out already had volunteers in place to do the job?

Originally Posted by Glort

I started my whole equine events business last year though one lead and networked everything else from there, No reason I can't do the same again especially with 12 months experience behind me now!

The thing with equine stuff, or any niche markets for that matter, is that you have to know them to shoot them. Sure anyone can shoot technically correct, but to really show the horse rider combo, to their fullest potential, you need a background.

[Snowgirl]

Originally Posted by Glort

He has rung me twice since and appears very interested in my doing another much larger event for them in a few months time.
The organizer is definitely an older gentleman and I believe is quite straight up and not the type to play games. We are still playing cellphone tag ATM so I'll catch up and see what he says.

COOL! It will produce results no doubt.

I have 3 other groups interested atm, one I should hear back from today and the other early next week. I sent another batch of emails yesterday, one got back to me straight away and the others I'll chase up tomorrow.
At this stage I think I have left my run a bit late for many of them but that's OK, it was a rush of blood idea and I'm learning the game as I go even by just talking to them. The guy that cancelled seemed to be unaware that I would attend the day for nothing. That taught me something in itself and I went back and modified my letter and put that right in the headline as well as made mention in 2 other places.
I won't have anyone under the wrong impression of what it will cost again.

Good point. Cost is ALWAYS a factor with event organizers - particularly when they're charity events. Good to clarify and reiterate a few times!

The events further out seem harder to find but once I start building some rapport with the event managers I hope most of the work will come to me and my prospecting time can be greatly reduced.


Event schedules are always hard to access - and more importantly, the contact folks. I get a titch frustrated when dealing with committees - especially when they're chaotic. I'm a firm believer that a camel is a horse designed by a committee. It's hard to find out who can make decisions - and when!


I completely Disagree if you are saying that you need a knowledge of the sport or interest itself.
It certainly wouldn't hurt but the value is limited.

What I know about horses could be written in the top left hand corner of a postage stamp in 12 point and while I don't pretend to be the best equine shooter in the world by any means, the way to improvement of my work is through technical means rather than a better knowledge of horses or the sport of SJ, dressage or any other discipline.

One thing I will blow my own trumpet for is an ability to learn.
When I started out ( and to this day) I am always asking people questions about my work. Do they like them, is that what they think is the best position of the horse, do they like that angle..... You soon get a general consensus of what to do and what people like ( IE, are most likely to buy) and while I get a lot of compliments on my work, the only horse I have an ability to ride is my iron one with " Harley" on the gas tank rather than the flesh and blood kind.

Conversely, there are a number of parents that are very well equipped with camera gear at these events and most of them are in my " Best customers" group.

Of course if we then look at making a business from photographing these sports and events, then knowledge of the sport takes a back seat to ability with a camera which is well outdone by business and marketing skills which are the most important things of all.
My clients have proved over and over again that Taking brilliant pics is NOT the key to success in the photography game.

In the early days where my trailer Jockey would just dump the cards into gallery's and put them on the Vstations, we had people order some shocker pics. They would come off the printer, we'd say, terribly sorry that is a terrible shot, please select another 2 on us and they would still want the shocker and it was IMPOSSIBLE to talk them out of it. They loved the expression on the kids face even though half the head was missing, the way the horse had it's ears even though they were about the only thing in the entire frame that was within a bulls roar of being in focus, the look of the father who was perfectly in focus even though the rider and horse weren't..... Nothing to do with photographic skill ( it had taken a brief absence in some of those shots) or knowledge of the sport ( none to begin with).

I have tried my hand at several other sports and events and the only thing I need to know is what the participants like to see and be portrayed as doing what they do well. From there it's pretty much a matter of getting the timing right and I'm there with no worries.

I have to disagree with you on this one, Glort. While it's true that people will buy some shots for reasons we'd never fathom (Daddy's expression, nice ears - whatever) I have found that shots that capture the sport action at its peak do well. I have competed in (and taught riding lessons as a certified coach) both show jumping and dressage so, when I'm shooting, I know the moments or the horse positions that will exemplify an excellent moment in that sport - and it does help.

I think multiple things contribute to sales success:

1. knowledge of the event helps a lot for those looking for proof of that moment of excellence;

1. This might not be the best technical shot, but it sold because it's the quintessential moment in the canter portion of the dressage test.
2. technical ability with exposure, composition and lighting; and
3. yep, MARKETING.

In terms of relative importance, though, I have to agree with Glort - marketing seems to rank #1. There are lots of excellent photographers out there (in various realms) who are starving; and there are others who are mediocre but doing well financially.

[mercphoto]

Originally Posted by Snowgirl

I have to disagree with you on this one, Glort.

As would I. Sorry, Glort, but if all you think need to do is work on the technicals on the photography then you are completely missing the emotional and artistic part. And for that you need to understand your subject matter. There is no debating this.

In terms of relative importance, though, I have to agree with Glort - marketing seems to rank #1. There are lots of excellent photographers out there (in various realms) who are starving; and there are others who are mediocre but doing well financially.

This is true in any industry. The "build a better mousetrap" line was written by an engineer who naively thought the market always buys the better mousetrap, because as an engineer that is what they do. :) But marketing is what makes or breaks any product or service. This is why the marketing and sales people usually make more $$$ in any company than the engineers do. :(

[Snowgirl]

I think I'll hit you up with a pm with few questions snow on what the best moments are for the different horse events. I have got a few different answers from the many, many riders I have spoken to so far but mainly they tell me the same thing which is what I work to.

I'm always willing to learn though![/quote]

Happy to help. I agree that it's impossible to know everything about every sport that one might want to shoot - and practice with feedback from the athletes is obviously one way to do that. I'd be in the same pickle if I were to try and shoot football, for example. I have a friend who shoots a lot of youth football (started when her sons got involved) and has a nice little team photo business going. But - she knows the game well - and where to be to get those good shots.

Congrats on wrapping up another charity event. You're on to a good thing there!

[Snowgirl]

Starting a new thread on business opportunities.