Photography School

ihiphotos · August 16, 2005

Just wondering if any of you have comments or suggestions about photography schools? I am not in a position to go away to school, so I was considering New York Institute of Photography. Someone also suggested that there's another really good one out in California??? I would like some input before I make the decision, but I'm really ready to do more!!!

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dragon300zx · August 16, 2005

Theres always local community colleges too for learning the basics. Nothing beats hands on lab time, critiques, and all that.

ihiphotos · August 16, 2005

You're right..

dragon300zx wrote:

Theres always local community colleges too for learning the basics. Nothing beats hands on lab time, critiques, and all that.

I did sign up for one recently ... turned out to be way too basic. (i.e. Most of the folks didn't know how to get the pictures off their new cameras.) I ended up dropping it and still waiting on the refund. I just hope it shows up. I really am looking for a complete "get-me-going" course, ya know?! I have been taking pictures for most of my life and just need more to support the business I'm getting.
Blessings...
Chrisa

dragon300zx · August 16, 2005

Most basic classes start off that way for the first week or so. Really shoulda stuck with it. Talk to the program director and try to test out of that class so you can get the credit and go on to the next level. There aren't short cuts to education. You can either learn the hard way by reading books yourself and practicing, or the less hard way by school. Most of the "how do you load film" people don't return after the basics class and your get a much higher level of people in your classes. Hell I had one basics class guy tell me my camera must be broken because I used a shallow depth of field to get a OOF background and well "dude your camera must be messed if it can't even get the background to not be so fuzzy". You smile and nod and push through it. You never know what little tricks you may pick up along the way that you didn't know before. Pluss every easy 4.0 helps your GPA.

ian408 · August 16, 2005

ihiphotos wrote:

Just wondering if any of you have comments or suggestions about photography schools? I am not in a position to go away to school, so I was considering New York Institute of Photography. Someone also suggested that there's another really good one out in California??? I would like some input before I make the decision, but I'm really ready to do more!!! :

What are you trying to learn? Would short seminar/workshops be something
you're interested in?

Here in the Silicon Valley, several of the California schools offer weekend
workshops in places like Death Valley or Yosemite.

You can get together with like minded individuals at photography clubs for
a much lower cost.

Brooks Institure of Photography is located in Santa Barbara.

Post a bit about what you're looking for in a school and maybe someone can
give some more information.

Ian

ihiphotos · August 16, 2005

dragon300zx wrote:

Most basic classes start off that way for the first week or so. Really shoulda stuck with it. Talk to the program director and try to test out of that class so you can get the credit and go on to the next level. There aren't short cuts to education. You can either learn the hard way by reading books yourself and practicing, or the less hard way by school. Most of the "how do you load film" people don't return after the basics class and your get a much higher level of people in your classes. Hell I had one basics class guy tell me my camera must be broken because I used a shallow depth of field to get a OOF background and well "dude your camera must be messed if it can't even get the background to not be so fuzzy". You smile and nod and push through it. You never know what little tricks you may pick up along the way that you didn't know before. Pluss every easy 4.0 helps your GPA.

The instructor and I discussed it and he said he'd "try" to beef it up for me. I shared my website, which still has some of my older crummy work on it. He has been "doing weddings" for about 2 years. I've been shooting events for 4. I know he had some tidbits of knowledge I could've gained, but he was so intimidated, I just didn't feel that it was worth $60. It was awkward, especially when he started pointing me out. Everyone else would hardly speak because he put me "beyond" them... :uhoh Didn't think about placing out of the class at the time. The college just offered a refund, so I didn't want to miss out and lose completely. I may just see if testing out would be an option. Good idea!

(Hey, it's been a while since I was in the classroom!)
Thanks again!
Chrisa

dragon300zx · August 16, 2005

Well I admit the school down there does sound kinda weak.

ihiphotos · August 16, 2005

ian408 wrote:

What are you trying to learn? Would short seminar/workshops be something
you're interested in?

Here in the Silicon Valley, several of the California schools offer weekend
workshops in places like Death Valley or Yosemite.

You can get together with like minded individuals at photography clubs for
a much lower cost.

Brooks Institure of Photography is located in Santa Barbara.

Post a bit about what you're looking for in a school and maybe someone can
give some more information.

Ian

Here's my story ... it all started as a hobby and one day was asked to shoot the Youth Baseball League's Picture Day. So, I've had that locked in for the past four years. That led to cheerleading, band competition, prom, football, baseball, basketball, and even weddings, etc! People are very satisfied with my work, but I know there's more for me to know. I especially need help with the technical stuff. For instance, I can go out to a baseball game, piddle with my camera, and shoot really good pictures. What I can't do is go out to a baseball game, KNOW exactly how to set my camera (and why ... and the terminology for it all) and shoot great pics! Make any sense? We've relocated this summer and the new town has only one photographer, who is really not into it anymore. The opportunity is wide-opened for a professional photographer to come in and succeed! I am so excited and just want to take the best route to meet the area's needs! Thanks so much for your interest and advice!

dragon300zx · August 16, 2005

ihiphotos wrote:

Here's my story ... it all started as a hobby and one day was asked to shoot the Youth Baseball League's Picture Day. So, I've had that locked in for the past four years. That led to cheerleading, band competition, prom, football, baseball, basketball, and even weddings, etc! People are very satisfied with my work, but I know there's more for me to know. I especially need help with the technical stuff. For instance, I can go out to a baseball game, piddle with my camera, and shoot really good pictures. What I can't do is go out to a baseball game, KNOW exactly how to set my camera (and why ... and the terminology for it all) and shoot great pics! Make any sense? We've relocated this summer and the new town has only one photographer, who is really not into it anymore. The opportunity is wide-opened for a professional photographer to come in and succeed! I am so excited and just want to take the best route to meet the area's needs! Thanks so much for your interest and advice!

You really need to start out with a basics class then. Stomach through the first few weeks as much as it sucks. They will cover those basic mechanics you are missing. At least a good one would. Hell 2 classes up here just cost me $525.00 so $60 for a class aint much.

gussie · August 16, 2005

ihiphotos wrote:

What I can't do is go out to a baseball game, KNOW exactly how to set my camera (and why ... and the terminology for it all) and shoot great pics! Make any sense?
Thanks so much for your interest and advice!

The 'mechanics' of photography, whether digital or film, boils down to the symbiotic relationship between two simple concepts - the amount of time (shutter) a certain amount of light (controlled by aperture) is allowed to strike the film or sensor. Physically speaking, it's all about the relationship between f-stop and shutter speed.

What's confusing to beginning students is that there are a bevy of settings that ALL give a correct exposure for a given scene. Which to use? Well, is motion important? Then your shutter speed is paramount. Do you want the background in or out of focus? Then use your f-stop to control depth of field.

Often there's a combination of the two, but usually one has priority. Shutter speed obviously can blur or freeze motion, but the effect of f-stops is a bit more arcane.

So, try this:
Use a normal lens for this experiment. Set your camera on the soft felt of a pool table. Place one pool ball at two feet away, left of center. Place another ball at three feet away, right of center. Finally, place another ball at five feet away, dead center.

Set your focus on the middle ball, and do not re-focus or move the camera for the rest of the experiment.

Let's say at f1.8 (remember, small number, big opening) your shutter speed is 1/250th sec. Take that picture!

Then, without moving the camera or re-focusing, set the aperture to f22. Your exposure should be 1 second, so be sure to adjust your shutter speed accordingly. Take that picture!

What you should have is two identical exposures. The first one let in alot of light (big opening of f1.8) for a short time (1/250th). The second let in much less light (small opening of f22) for a longer time (1 sec). But both exposures are identical, allowing the same amount of light into the camera.

Inspect the two photos. Notice any difference? At f1.8, only the ball you focused on is 'sharp'. At f22, all three pool balls should be sharp.

After understanding this, it's all gravy. The camera becomes a tool for your vision, rather than a machine thinking for itself. With practice you begin to intuitively know the 'range of focus' effects you'll get with each of your lenses.

ian408 · August 16, 2005

Nicely stated gussie!

When's school start up for you guys? Might have to get up your way--visit coucherocket
as well.

Ian

dragon300zx · August 16, 2005

lol who are you asking about school ian?

ian408 · August 16, 2005

dragon300zx wrote:

lol who are you asking about school ian?

Secret communique w/gussie...he's a teacher.

Steve Cavigliano · August 16, 2005

Chrisa,

Gussie's "in-a-nutshell" explanation is excellent

Whether you are conscious of it or not, if you get mostly good shots at sporting events, deep down you already know most of the "technical" stuff

The only point I'd add to Gussie's post is that there is a third element to be considered. As he mentioned, there's light (aperture), time (shutter speed) and also sensitivity (ISO or ASA). The three factors for exposure. If you need a deep DOF for a certain shot (everything in focus) use narrower apertures. For shallow DOF use wider apertures and for extremely shallow DOF make sure you fill lots of the viewfinder with your subject. If you need fast shutter speeds (for capturing action or for handholding long focal length lenses) then you will have to work with a combination of wider apertures and possibly higher ISO settings (or faster film).

This site may help you better understand the relationships and how changing one variable influences the other two. I know it's really helped me

:

As Gussie also aludes to, you can get a great exposure and not wind up with what you were after

For example using a narrow aperture and/or slower speeds to shoot action. The exposure might be right on, but you'll likely have motion blur. This is the knowledge I think you already possess. You may not know why you do it, or how to explain it, but I don't believe you would be getting consistently decent results otherwise

Hang around Dgrin long enough and I think you'll find it's worth at least 8 college units....

Steve

Khaos · August 16, 2005

I leaned by taking pics, seeing that they sucked, read a lot, took more pics, looked better, read some more, took a gazillion more pics applying what I read, started liking more of my pics, lather, rinse, repeat.

dragon300zx · August 16, 2005

Ok here is the best advice I can give.

Photography (8th Edition) (Paperback)
by Barbara London, John Upton
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0131896091/102-7634325-6858507?v=glance

That is the text book for all our photography classes other than the Photoshop CS book. Great book.

ihiphotos · August 16, 2005

You're great!
Thank you all so much for your input! (Just what I was looking for...) I would like to know if anyone knows anything about or has heard any "real" reviews for New York Institute of Photography??? Is it just not necessary to have any formal education/certifications/etc. to be the town's professional photographer???

Please don't hesitate to keep posting; you've been so helpful!:D
Blessings,
~Chrisa

ReneesEyes · September 3, 2005

ihiphotos wrote:

Thank you all so much for your input! (Just what I was looking for...) I would like to know if anyone knows anything about or has heard any "real" reviews for New York Institute of Photography??? Is it just not necessary to have any formal education/certifications/etc. to be the town's professional photographer???
Please don't hesitate to keep posting; you've been so helpful!:D
Blessings,
~Chrisa

I am only halfway through NYIP, I enrolled 1 year ago. Since then, I've quit my heart ultrasound job, started a photography business, done portraits, booked weddings, sold fine art to offices, real estate, commercial, event, had a photo in the paper, etc. Before that, it was just a hobby. NYIP makes it very easy to understand. Order the free catalog and wait for the discount coupons. They are on DVD and CD now instead of VHS/tapes, too. And I STRONGLY suggest signing up for the NYIP Roundtable II msn group...that is where I have really learned a lot from fellow students. I am actually majoring in Photography at a local college, but have not taken one photo class yet. (math, english, science, etc so far) I am pregnant and have to wait--it's #4 and that's why I have been taking everything online. Although I can't wait to take a photo class, I have learned so much already from NYIP and NYIP students and grads I am really just pursuing the degree to get the GI bill benefits from the military, and to have a degree, of course. So, in short, I highly recommend it. You can take a look at my site: www.reneesumner.smugmug.com and if you saw my photos before, you would see a huge improvement. Of course, I don't make those public : )

Good luck either way,

Renee

JErst · September 25, 2005

Technical stuff

Steve Cavigliano wrote:

Chrisa,

Gussie's "in-a-nutshell" explanation is excellent Whether you are conscious of it or not, if you get mostly good shots at sporting events, deep down you already know most of the "technical" stuff
............................................................

Steve

Thanks for the info in this post. That site is great....jam packed!!!

pat.kane · September 25, 2005

gussie wrote:

The 'mechanics' of photography, whether digital or film, boils down to the symbiotic relationship between two simple concepts - the amount of time (shutter) a certain amount of light (controlled by aperture) is allowed to strike the film or sensor. Physically speaking, it's all about the relationship between f-stop and shutter speed...

Nicely said. Probably one of the best books that addresses this in a simple and straightforward manner is:

"Understanding Exposure: How to Shoot Great Photographs with a Film or Digital Camera," by Bryan Peterson

luckyrwe · September 26, 2005

I did NYIP, it was fair. I would have been better off putting the money into film and prints and learning that way.

ihiphotos · September 26, 2005

luckyrwe wrote:

I did NYIP, it was fair. I would have been better off putting the money into film and prints and learning that way.

Can you tell me some things you specifically didn't like about it? I am just formed an LLC and will be going into my photography business soon. I would like to offer even better than what I currently offer and if NYIP is not worth the $$, I too would rather spend it on a new camera!

flyingpylon · September 26, 2005

Others have offered a lot of great photo advice, but I'll throw this out there...

If you're already getting work and people are happy with the results, maybe you have a more immediate need to learn more about running a small photography business than the mechanics of photography itself (which of course you'll want to improve on over time anyway...)?

Someone somewhere said something like "Formal education will make you a living. Self education will make you a fortune." The point being that if you'll be working for yourself, the paper degree might not be a requirement. It seems like you mostly want the knowledge, which could be gained in lots of ways. Though if you have the time and money to go to school it could be an enjoyable experience.

Sandy · September 29, 2005

Gussie your explanation is very helpful, the more shooting the better you get at it. An associate who is a pro photographer told me never to hold the camera horizontal when shooting. I can understand his point with the the telephoto lense as it is easier to stabilize the camera holding it vertically. However for group shots I like to hold the camera in the horizontal position. Any thoughts on this?

Mike Lane · September 29, 2005

Pricey options: Go to college, get a BFA in photography. Continue to your MFA. Rejoice that you are a highly skilled photographer with more credentials than just about anyone. But don't rejoice too long, your school loans are looming, you need to get to work!

Moderately pricey but still not cheap: http://hallmark.edu/. You go there, spend a year, pay enough to have a fully loaded Prius (or a year's tuition at some universities) and you get ... well not a degree but a lot of experience all around apparently.

Less pricey: New York Institute of Photography. They send you VHS tapes to watch at home and you send them printouts of your work. They are trying to become more of a school for digital photography, but it seems to me that they're kind of slow moving. (I mean VHS TAPES for crying out loud!) No degree, lots of experience but no hands on instructor interaction (useful for working with lighting and other things I'm sure). Bonus: You get a NYIP press pass to "help you get into photograph sporting and other events"

Getting a little cheaper (per class fee is less, but if you take a lot of classes, it'll be more): www.betterphoto.com The University of Phoenix Online of photography schools. I actually took a class there. It was $265 for 8 weeks. Nothing too intense but you get the satisfaction that you have someone helping you with your photography and showing you things that you may otherwise not know. I liked it and they have some very interesting classes. Lighting (again, no hands on instructor interaction), a 1 year stock photography course, etc. Yay! You get a certificate at the end of the class.

Not too much cheaper but hands on: There are photography schools around your areas probably. There is one near Seattle called the Cascade School of Photography for example. Check in with your local camera store (and no, I don't mean Ritz photo) to find out more.

MUCH cheaper: www.webphotoschool.com is a collection of tutorials really. Some of them are quite useful I thought. There are a bunch of free ones, some $.99 ones and some $1.99 ones. You can pay a yearly fee and get a reduce price on them as well.

Hope that helps!

Mike Lane · September 29, 2005

pat.kane wrote:

Nicely said. Probably one of the best books that addresses this in a simple and straightforward manner is:

"Understanding Exposure: How to Shoot Great Photographs with a Film or Digital Camera," by Bryan Peterson

You can go the extra mile and take the class on exposure that Bryan Peterson teaches at www.betterphoto.com

Photography School

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