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Discussion on Spec sales
Just wanted to get a discussion going on Speculative sales events.
Are you still covering spec sales events?
If you are have you noticed a consistent decline in sales over the past 3 years?
If not what are you doing to entice sales?
If so what do you atribute the decline in sales to?
Do you cover more than one type of event and notice a difference in sales between the different events?
Are you still covering spec sales events?
If you are have you noticed a consistent decline in sales over the past 3 years?
If not what are you doing to entice sales?
If so what do you atribute the decline in sales to?
Do you cover more than one type of event and notice a difference in sales between the different events?
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I've noticed a drastic decline in my spec sales from local MX racing. So much so that I recently decided to stop shooting local races because I was spending far too much time away from my family and not getting enough profit from it. So, I quit. I'm now just shooting Pro events for RacerX and that's it. I'm working on converting from a sports photog into a wedding/portrait photog.
http://www.RussErbePhotography.com :thumb
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I've had riders ask me why I don't have shots of their rides and they're shocked when I tell them. Hmmm. I should hang around for 10-12 hours a day all weekend IN CASE someone wants shots? NOT!
I will go and shoot rides if people pre order AND prepay. Idid one last weekend that was preordererd but not prepaid. Care to guess oif the person actually bought their pictures? not. Someone else was at the show and giving way pics for free. Can't compete with that.
http://www.imagesbyceci.com
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Picadilly, NB, Canada
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I think it is a combination of a few things.<o:p></o:p>
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1. Saturation, more and more events have someone there taking thousands of pictures and trying to sell them, some events have multiple shooters competing for sales. I've been to one where I was shooting for a magazine and there were three other shooters from different companies all with access, one doing on-site printing and the others on-line. A friend of mine did a horse show with 5 companies competing for sales. So the consumer is more likely to hold off knowing that there will be plenty of opportunities. For this reason I am drastically reducing the amount of events I cover this year. I steered away from it before because I didn't want to risk someone else getting the gig, but it's just not worth it anymore, and if someone else does reel in the ones I'm dropping then I'm hoping the competition will inspire interest.<o:p></o:p>
2. I definitely think that the sideliners giving away pictures has an impact but I don't think it's as big of an impact as the previous point.<o:p></o:p>
3. Gear doesn't provide the same advantage that it used to, there is still a gap, but it is no longer as wide as before.<o:p></o:p>
4. I'm sure the economy has something to do with it, but it doesn't seem to be deterring the spectators from buying camera gear.<o:p></o:p>
5. The market is changing, like it or not, gone are the days where it was assumed that the consumer was going to shell out for prints. My opinion is that this will continue to shift more and more. Now the grand percentage of print sales are 4x6's, people won't be making the same kind of keepsakes. Prints will move to fewer larger ones for wall hangings and the majority of image sales will be electronic. Online albums have been around forever, but it'll kick in to high gear as we move on and the new 4x6 won’t be in an album or a scrap book or a shoebox. It'll be on an Android or an iPad or on Facebook. Trying to get people to buy 4x6 prints will be increasingly difficult.<o:p></o:p>
6. With the above in mind, I get thousands and thousands of photo views after an event, I've had as many as 3000 per hour for larger events. These potential customers are coming to the site and looking at the images, sending links to the images, and coming back to look at the images. But as my image views over the past 4 years has increased exponentially, my sales have steadily decreased. Something can be learned from that, (and don't say it's cause my pictures started sucking <img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/6029383/emoji/mwink.gif" border="0" alt="" >) Maybe because of the saturation mentioned before, an image needs to be phenomenal now to get a purchase but the good ones can still get looked at over and over on the shooters site. Even screen capped and used as a profile picture, which I now allow, I turned the "Right click" feature back on and put a moderately intrusive transparent watermark right across the middle, and have seen many of my images with the watermark used as profile pictures on FB. Maybe I could try to market an FB profile pic product but the price point would have to be too low to make it worthwhile, Right?<o:p></o:p>
I'm freelancing for a local online news source now which is fun. Spending a weekend shooting an event for break even money is not, so if I can't figure out a way to "next level it" this year I do believe I'll let go of the events that I do every year and give someone else a go at it.<o:p></o:p>
Keith Tharp.com - Champion Photo
Now, I still look at his school photos and I'll buy when they use a particular photog because he has great props/backgrounds and the shots look so much cooler. But that's still on spec - I don't buy until I see the photos. Sometimes I buy, sometimes I don't.
I have a different perspective but perhaps the same conclusion. I started doing kart and MX photography back near the end of 2004 and continued into 2007. At that point the demands of the day job skyrocketed and I had a choice to make, which was a pretty easy choice.
By that time my kart sales had dropped off a ton. But I attributed that to the track being a small track with a small and constant crowd. In other words, everyone had enough photos of themselves by then. Even though I kept changing where I took shots from, different corners, getting different backgrounds, playing with high angles or laying on my belly to get different views, at some point a racer just has enough shots of them at that track. Can't blame them.
MX was a different story as the events were much larger with a much larger group of riders. Those sales fell off a bit but not a ton. Again, this was 2007.
Also back then a very large percentage of my sales were prints, with the 4x6 being largest percentage, with some 5x7, a few 8x12, and the occasional 20x30. Oddly, never sold anything inbetween. Very few digital files sold, very few event CDs.
Not quite a year ago I got back into speculative event shooting, this time with cars at high performance driver education events -- track days. Like karts and MX its an ego thing -- see me, I'm a race driver and I have the pics to prove it! I have exclusive access around the track, the only exception is that spectators do have a good vantage on the front stretch to get their own pictures from. But that's it, all other vantage points are me only. (its a safety thing, and frankly I'm still amazed at how lax most MX tracks are regarding spectatator safety). To give you an idea this track has chased professional photographers off their property before for not being safety conscious, so you can just imagine if they let spectators wander around to get their own pics.
I'm still rebuilding my business but a few things I've noticed is these days digital sales far trump print sales. CD's are big, but so are individual files. And no, I won't sell a low-res "Facebook" file for cheap because then that's all they would buy and I'd get stuck with paltry revenue for a whole day at the track and another day sorting and processing images. Not worth it. Think about it, that low res digital file cost me the same to produce as a hi-res file did. And volume won't make up the difference.
Print sales are few. What print sales I do get tend to be either collages or prints-on-metal. Collages take either skill that most people don't have (making an interesting collage), or take software people don't have (many people don't have the software to make a collage or have no interest in getting it and learning). And most people don't know where to go to get a print-on-metal, but its really cool so they pay for that.
So recently I've been pushing the print-on-metal and I've been working hard on my graphic design skills to make more interesting collages that make people go "wow". And I think its that value-add that you need. A great photo is great and all, but might not be enough anymore. Their buddy will get 99 crappy photos of them, but if their buddy gets 1 great photo that's enough. I have to get great photos 99% of the time, not 1% of the time, to make things worthwhile. But that doesn't necessarily translate into a value for the buyer.
Another track day next weekend and I'll be pushing new graphic designs and we'll see how that goes.
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NOOOOOO! Say it aint so! I know thats where the monry is.... But, damn! I love seeing your MX shots! Wedding photos just do the same thing for me!
But, as said. I know thats where the money is.
Sorry - off topic! Had to be said though!!
I will make a quick comment here - I believe the mentality of "Good Enough" is what is killing the sales. As another poster mentioned, if Mom/Dad buy a DSLR regardless of what model and take pictures of the event - friends of those people will gladly take free images from them as they are "Good Enough". Is it the economy? Is it a change of attitude because of technology? I dont know, i wish i did.
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Thanks for jarring my memory.
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**Around my area it is plain and simple.......people would rather have "free junk" then pay for a good quality photo. Thus, I try and stay away from spec. events.
If I had a dollar for every email I get about "wanting to get a copy of a certain photo", I place it on my Smugmug site, email the people back as to where they can purchase it and never hear from them again!
Very true. At the last horse show I did there were seriously hundreds of cameras going constantly. So you know what my sales were like - the pits!
I have now made an arrangement with one of the groups I work with that involves me getting a "day rate" to be there, capture some candids for their year-end banquet presentation and the formal prize presentation shots. Then, anything else I take and sell to competitors is gravy. That's a model worth doing. But to do it 100% on spec? No thanks. Never again.
There are several other photographers in this area and a couple of them do spec., but most have seen the futility of the effort and concentrate on other, more lucrative, ventures. I wish those still doing spec the best of luck.
http://www.imagesbyceci.com
http://www.facebook.com/ImagesByCeci
Picadilly, NB, Canada
It's not only "people". It's broadcast networks asking viewers to post shots & vids on their websites; many make it to broadcast.
Then there's local newspapers who have their non paid interns shooting with their p&s, and posting on front page
So true! And lots of website and other media all offering to post people's pics - just send them in
As a freelance writer and photographer - I lose out on both counts.
One of the horse magazines (nag mags) that I used to write and shoot for now uses almost 100% reader contributions and media releases with free photos accompanying them. No researched content at all. Sigh.:cry
http://www.imagesbyceci.com
http://www.facebook.com/ImagesByCeci
Picadilly, NB, Canada
- market saturation
- declining sales
- the economy
- unprofessional "photographers" giving work away
Believe me, I've lectured many of these "photographers" on why it's a bad idea. Unfortunately most of them are just marks that are happy to be a part of the show and not have to buy a ticket. Others will rationalize that they make good money elsewhere, so they don't need to get paid here. Since I can't change the nature of this business, I've opted to appeal to those of whom which quality and reliability matters to instead.
http://www.imagesbyceci.com
http://www.facebook.com/ImagesByCeci
Picadilly, NB, Canada
Regarding the papers, I think it sucks when they use amateur shots in news stories. Generally, the picture doesn't contribute to the story at all--yeah, it's of the event or whatever but you get no sense of the event from it. Maybe the photo editor is working for free too?
Are you still covering spec sales events? Yes
If you are have you noticed a consistent decline in sales over the past 3 years?
Quite Contrary. I'm an equine photographer. I started out a number of years ago and did as many shows as I could handle. What I achieved with that was, getting my name out, creating awareness that me, and that my calibre of work was available. At the end of my second season, I looked back to see where my time effort and art were most appreciated most and I have stuck with those shows, my sales have increased year over year.
If not what are you doing to entice sales?
Number 1
Being different, having people know my work, just by looking at it, is a huge plus.
Number 2
The locations where I shoot are challenging for most others, especially the average joe. When people want pictures of themselves in competition, that is something I can deliver consistently, in the tricky conditions that most can't navigate. So when average joe and daddy dslr stops by to shoot and can't, they go to me because I can.
I didn't think that I'd take on an outside gig again, because of the poachers, average joe and daddy dslrs and everyone else, I didn't think that the sales would be worth it, but someone asked, and I did it as a favor. I was pleasantly surprised. I uploaded pictures that blew people away, they were a step above the basics, I showed them pictures of their horses that they've seen of others in magazines. That however is several different elements working together, knowing your equipment and your subject are huge factors, but only the beginning.
Number 3
Creating something that the average joe cannot achieve with their point and shoot, even their dslr in and outside of the show pen. Again this goes back to creating something that people fall in love with and want for themselves. Anyone can take someone out behind the barn for a shoot, but true appreciation for my work as a craft is what sells my work/services. I think a certain amount of humility, compassion go along way as well. People won't just buy the picture because you took it, it has to appeal to them, and that is up to the photographer to create the appeal
Number 4
Doing the job with a smile on my face. The shows that I have stuck with bring me great pleasure. I love these horses, I appreciate the trainers work as a craft as well. Mutual respect is huge with the groups I deal with. For anyone else who is an equine photographer will know that it's easy to catch someone in a second of correction, bad stride, stupid look on your face... that's no way to create fans of your work. Show em the best, and don't be afraid to use the trash can.
Number 5
Working with groups who respect you, your work, and time, and who are willing to go to bat for you!!
If so what do you atribute the decline in sales to?
Do you cover more than one type of event and notice a difference in sales between the different events?
I'm busy enough with my truest passion, and I'm sure that it wouldn't translate to other events. I love dogs, I think bikes are cool, but, I'm not about to pretend to know enough about them to be capturing them at their best in competition, and I just don't have the time to learn!
Does everyone buy? Absolutely not. However, enough buy to make it worth my time and efforts. Some shows are better than others but I usually sell more than enough to make it worthwhile. I attribute that more to my sales/marketing skills than my photography skills as I'm still learning and trying to get better. But I've been in sales for about 17 years so I know how to go after business.
A perfect example would be the bodybuilding event I recently shot (first one I've shot). I got there early, walked around back and handed cards out to the competitors. I noticed 5-7 other photogs there, none of them were handing out cards or interacting with the competitors in any way. I'm sure some of them are, "regulars," however, people tend to forget you if you don't constantly remind them of what you're doing.
I also notice some of the photogs do tend to charge a lot for their work (a whole different discussion I know). I priced my work knowing there are people giving stuff away for free, etc. Still charging a decent amount but it's a reasonable amount at the same time. Not much less than what I'm seeing others charge but less expensive enough to get people to buy.
It's not easy but I still believe you can earn money doing this. Yes, there are people giving their work away. Yes there are people bringing cameras to the events. However, there is still business to be earned.
Is there enough to make a living off it? I don't really know. Since I'm still new I don't really know how much I can actually earn once I've got a more established name and people know me better. Might not be much more than I'm doing now, in which case, not enough to make a living off of. But more than enough to do it as I enjoy MMA and you can't beat the seats!
I also will be doing grappling tournaments in my area. I know some photogs making money at those shows as well. Since I've competed in many of them, I can get the access and I know many of the competitors so it'll make it easir for me to walk up to people. But it will be a lot more work as it's pandemonium at these tournaments.
So, in short, I think you can still earn money doing this type of shooting. You just have to be prepared to work harder to get the business and maybe not make quite as much as you used to.
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Just recently I was contacted by the promoter of one of those big series asking if I would shoot a new, single day race of his. No pay up front, but in exchange for being 'official race photographer'. That in itself isn't worth much in my eyes, but it is another chance to work with him that will hopefully provide more paid work down the road. Networking, you know.
So, all in all it's been a good year on my end. Oh, it's been pure hell at times, but I've certainly grown as a photographer and businessman and I'll continue to work on expanding my business as best I can.
I must say that this has been a great thread, let's keep it going!
I'm also finding many of the schools and sponsors more willing to purchase photos. Just have to get after it and work. It's not easy selling--been selling for about 17 years.
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This is a good point,
The exact same thing happens with the gymnastics that I do. Sales on the younger fresh to the sport competitors are much higher than with the seasoned gymnasts.
This can be seen in the stands as well, when the level 4 gymnast are competing the stands are full to capacity with both parents, grandparents, aunts and uncles, etc. At the higher level competitions there is plenty of room in the stands, some parents won't even attend all of the meets and the athletes get carpooled with others or just drive themselves.
I'll also agree to the point mentioned earlier about providing a product that is superior, and that people feel they cant get somewhere else. I'm going to work hard on this for the coming season in the form of collages, or trading cards, or...
Regarding exposure, it's definitely important to make sure that people know you are there, but that's not the issue in declining sales.
Keith Tharp.com - Champion Photo
I'm going to concentrate my efforts this fall on the youngest kids and shoot only by request for the older teams.
http://clearwaterphotography.smugmug.com/
A former sports shooter
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I've had 3 sales for $66 all of which were digital.
I didn't expect a lot from this, but I enjoyed shooting it. But it still gives me a little bit of info, where as 100% of the sales are digital. One person bought a full res version, put an awful action to it and then used it as his FB profile.
My point is that before, 98% of sales were 4x6's while they still have the majority of sales, it's shifting, and people want to post the images on FB and really have no need for a 4x6 which was probably only bought because it was the cheapest thing they could get.
Also had a brainstorming session with my photographers and wife about what we could do to elevate sales for this coming season. Nothing super amazing has come up yet, just ideas of trading cards or collages, nothing out of the box yet. We'll keep at it.
Keith Tharp.com - Champion Photo
This is the biggest problems for sales in general.
The ideal situation would be to have their contact info so you can politely remind them to buy your photos and build a sense of urgency. "I'm about to place and order and would like to get your order in with it." "Running a special, if you order by Friday the price is only $x." Lots of things you can do. Unfortunately, that's not really possible in this kind of situation. We must rely on them coming to us. However, once they do (usually via email), you can contact them.
I have a guy just the other day who said (again) he plans to order some photos from a show I did in June! I had another guy who kept putting it off and finally bought after 2 months. He spent about $300 on photos though so it was a decent order at least.
I feel for you...
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For a while I was doing incentive pricing I would have what I called "Special Event Pricing" and for 30 days after the event the price would be lower than "Regular pricing" I stopped because I still had people holding off and then confusion because no one read any of the flyers or web warnings stating that the price would be going up. But I think I'm going to go back to that but reduce the event pricing time period down to 14 days.
I've started an opt-in mailing list but subscribers are slow coming, I think I'm up to 19 now.
I don't know how I feel about hitting people with sales emails that haven't opted in, just by using the email that they order with. It seems like a touchy subject.
Keith Tharp.com - Champion Photo
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A former sports shooter
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What are you talking about for $
Keith Tharp.com - Champion Photo