New Nikon announcement, Nikon 1 Mirrorless

MavMav Registered Users Posts: 174 Major grins
edited January 20, 2012 in Cameras
http://www.engadget.com/2011/09/21/nikon-unveils-v1-and-j1-mirrorless-cameras-10-1mp-cmos-2-7-inc/

They finally revealed their ILC offering - perhaps not as high spec'd as everyone might have hoped... But at an attractive price point.

nikon-1-2011-09-20-15.jpg
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Comments

  • lifeinfocuslifeinfocus Registered Users Posts: 1,461 Major grins
    edited September 21, 2011
    New Nikon 1 Mirrorless Cameras Released
    See Engadget video and text.

    Quote from Engadget:

    "The V1 and J1 share nearly identical specs, with the latter model sporting some fairly minor tweaks. Both ILCs include 10.1 megapixel CMOS sensors, HDMI / USB connectivity, a 1200fps slo-mo capture mode (!), 3-inch LCDs, 10fps shooting, high-res electronic viewfinders, and full HD (1080/30p) video capture -- though 720/60p and 1080/60i modes are thrown in for good measure. The J1 touts a built-in flash, auto-noise reduction on movie clips, a 73-point AF system, dual-core EXPEED processing engine, and a 29 minute cap on single movie files (far greater than the five minute ceiling on its earlier DSLRS) while the V1 boasts an EVF and supports an external flash, as well as a mechanical shutter, stereo microphone input, a "multi-accessory port" and a magnesium alloy chassis."

    Also a Mount Apapter FT1 for F-mount lenses.

    Cost list from NikonRumors.com Available Oct. 20.

    Prices:
    Nikon 1 J1: $649.95 (with kit lens 1 NIKKOR VR 10-30mm f/3.5-5.6 lens)
    Nikon 1 V1: $899.95 (with kit lens 1 NIKKOR VR 10-30mm f/3.5-5.6 lens)
    Nikon 1 10mm f/2.8 pancake lens: $249.95
    Nikon 1 VR 30-110mm f/3.8-5.6 lens: $249.95
    Nikon 1 VR 10-100mm f/4.5-5.6 power zoom lens: $749.95
    Nikon 1 SB-N5 Speedlight: $149.95
    Nikon 1 GP-N100 GPS unit: $149.95

    More info on NikonRumors.com

    Not what I am waiting for from Nikon but I expect more consumers will be taking better pics and videos.
    http://www.PhilsImaging.com
    "You don't take a photograph, you make it." ~Ansel Adams
    Phil
  • ThatCanonGuyThatCanonGuy Registered Users Posts: 1,778 Major grins
    edited September 21, 2011
    Well, the design looks good :). Now put in a DX sensor and release a 35mm pancake prime, and maybe I'll buy one. It does 60 fps with electronic shutter wings.gif
  • rapnjarrapnjar Registered Users Posts: 10 Big grins
    edited September 21, 2011
    New Nikon 1 Mirrorless Cameras Released
    What market is this camera targeting? The small sensor and slow lens' give it no appeal to the serious enthusiast and its too bulky for point n shoot crowd. I simply cant see what Nikon is going after with this design.

    Jeff
    Jeff
    D90, 10-20 Sigma, 24-70 f2.8 Nikon and 70-200 VRII Nikon - still learning...
  • MGRPhotoMGRPhoto Registered Users Posts: 55 Big grins
    edited September 21, 2011
    rapnjar wrote: »
    What market is this camera targeting?

    Jeff

    Exactly. There is no market for these. Obviously some people will buy them just to have them but they are trying to fill a gap that isn't there with a fad.

    edit: ^grammar fail
  • ZerodogZerodog Registered Users Posts: 1,480 Major grins
    edited September 21, 2011
    I guess that might be my new camera! I have been thinking of a micro 4:3s camera and here it is.
  • Coney_Island_GaryConey_Island_Gary Registered Users Posts: 56 Big grins
    edited September 21, 2011
    Lenses for the Nikon 1
    "Also a Mount Apapter FT1 for F-mount lenses."

    Does that mean that a 70-200 Nikkor lens will fit this little body? If so I would like to see this new body with current Nikkor lenses attached.
    Gary from Coney Island, Brooklyn, NY
  • ziggy53ziggy53 Super Moderators Posts: 23,765 moderator
    edited September 21, 2011
    Here's the Nikon corporate page, with some images of the cameras:

    http://www.nikon.com/news/2011/0921_digital_01.htm

    pic_110921_10.jpg
    Nikon J1

    pic_110921_11.jpg
    Nikon V1
    ziggy53
    Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
  • Coney_Island_GaryConey_Island_Gary Registered Users Posts: 56 Big grins
    edited September 21, 2011
    <style> <!-- /* Font Definitions */ @font-face {font-family:Cambria; panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4; mso-font-charset:0; mso-generic-font-family:auto; mso-font-pitch:variable; mso-font-signature:3 0 0 0 1 0;} /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:""; margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ascii-font-family:Cambria; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:Cambria; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-hansi-font-family:Cambria; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style> I think Nikon has made an error in judgment with this new camera. On the Nikon website it shows the marketing is directed towards the “snapshot” photographer. The colorful bodies supports that premise. What I do not understand is if a “snapshot” shooter can use a P7100 to capture nice photos, why would he/she want to get involved with changing lenses on the fly and increasing the probability of sensor damage in the process?

    On all of the forums there are countless posts made by experience photographers regarding, “How do I clean my sensor”, “What is the best way to prevent dust from getting inside the body”, etc. The average new owner of this Nikon 1 camera will probably think that it is safe to treat it as they treat their cell phone.

    In the photos included in the marketing, the environment where the images were captured has the potential for dust and dirt to come in contact with the sensor, if a lens change were to be made. I hope that Nikon has a disclosure statement in its manual to warn people of the need to be very careful when using the Nikon 1 as it is intended to be used.

    http://www.nikonusa.com/Nikon-Products/Product/Nikon1/V27528/Nikon-1-J1.html
    Gary from Coney Island, Brooklyn, NY
  • ziggy53ziggy53 Super Moderators Posts: 23,765 moderator
    edited September 21, 2011
    This camera enjoys 73 focus points phase detection AF on the imager. While I don't understand this to mean 73 point focus, I do think that the 73 discrete points will allow combinations of AF patterns spread across the frame. It is not clear what patterns will be used for AF acquisition.

    The fact that neither the J1 nor the V1 allow for an external flash would seem to indicate the potential market.
    ziggy53
    Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
  • MarkRMarkR Registered Users Posts: 2,099 Major grins
    edited September 21, 2011
    ziggy53 wrote: »
    This camera enjoys 73 focus points phase detection AF on the imager. While I don't understand this to mean 73 point focus, I do think that the 73 discrete points will allow combinations of AF patterns spread across the frame. It is not clear what patterns will be used for AF acquisition.

    The fact that neither the J1 nor the V1 allow for an external flash would seem to indicate the potential market.

    Interesting point-- the Nikon P7100 has a hotshoe.

    This whole product seems set up to fail-- "yeah, we tried mirrorless, no one wanted it; back to SLRs for us."

    Of course I think the truth is more subtle than that-- they're trying to make a product that doesn't cannibalize their own sales at the P&S AND SLR levels. A tough tightrope walk to be sure!
  • ziggy53ziggy53 Super Moderators Posts: 23,765 moderator
    edited September 21, 2011
    I combined these 2 threads. Carry on. thumb.gif
    ziggy53
    Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
  • ziggy53ziggy53 Super Moderators Posts: 23,765 moderator
    edited September 21, 2011
    ziggy53 wrote: »
    ... The fact that neither the J1 nor the V1 allow for an external flash would seem to indicate the potential market.

    I may have to take back the statement.

    While the Nikon corporate page does not describe an external flash, the image that Mav embedded shows the Nikon V1 with a flash attached. (Back row, right.)
    ziggy53
    Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
  • ziggy53ziggy53 Super Moderators Posts: 23,765 moderator
    edited September 21, 2011
    I found the external flash for the Nikon V1:

    http://imaging.nikon.com/lineup/acil/accessories/speedlight_sb-n5/

    product_01.png

    It does have an articulated head and GN 8.5/27.9 (ISO 100, m/ft), 12/39.4 (ISO 200, m/ft).
    ziggy53
    Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
  • ziggy53ziggy53 Super Moderators Posts: 23,765 moderator
    edited September 21, 2011
    "Also a Mount Apapter FT1 for F-mount lenses."

    Does that mean that a 70-200 Nikkor lens will fit this little body? If so I would like to see this new body with current Nikkor lenses attached.

    I suspect that this image may show that:

    banner.png
    ziggy53
    Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
  • ziggy53ziggy53 Super Moderators Posts: 23,765 moderator
    edited September 21, 2011
    Nikon link to the "Nikon 1" series system brochure:

    http://chsvimg.nikon.com/lineup/acil/pdf/Nikon1_Lineup.pdf
    ziggy53
    Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
  • ziggy53ziggy53 Super Moderators Posts: 23,765 moderator
    edited September 21, 2011
    Corporate index link to the Nikon 1 system:

    http://imaging.nikon.com/lineup/acil/#bodies
    ziggy53
    Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
  • NikonsandVstromsNikonsandVstroms Registered Users Posts: 990 Major grins
    edited September 21, 2011
    <style> <!-- /* Font Definitions */ @font-face {font-family:Cambria; panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4; mso-font-charset:0; mso-generic-font-family:auto; mso-font-pitch:variable; mso-font-signature:3 0 0 0 1 0;} /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:""; margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ascii-font-family:Cambria; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:Cambria; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-hansi-font-family:Cambria; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style> I think Nikon has made an error in judgment with this new camera. On the Nikon website it shows the marketing is directed towards the “snapshot” photographer. The colorful bodies supports that premise. What I do not understand is if a “snapshot” shooter can use a P7100 to capture nice photos, why would he/she want to get involved with changing lenses on the fly and increasing the probability of sensor damage in the process?

    On all of the forums there are countless posts made by experience photographers regarding, “How do I clean my sensor”, “What is the best way to prevent dust from getting inside the body”, etc. The average new owner of this Nikon 1 camera will probably think that it is safe to treat it as they treat their cell phone.

    In the photos included in the marketing, the environment where the images were captured has the potential for dust and dirt to come in contact with the sensor, if a lens change were to be made. I hope that Nikon has a disclosure statement in its manual to warn people of the need to be very careful when using the Nikon 1 as it is intended to be used.

    http://www.nikonusa.com/Nikon-Products/Product/Nikon1/V27528/Nikon-1-J1.html

    2 points on this:

    1) Many of the m4/3 owners I know are simply snapshot photographers who wanted better low light images, Nikon is probably looking at this same market.

    2) Sensor size seems to have a role to play with how much dust is sucked on/how hard it is to get off. With Nikon's sensor being smaller than 4/3 I don't see this being a huge issue as I have never cared one bit about changing lenses on a 4/3 and I've also never had a dust spot. Unlike the D700 where if you look at it the wrong way while changing lenses you get them. And my APS-C cameras got them a lot less often than the D700 even without any sensor cleaning mechanisms.

    Mirrorless cameras are also huge in Japan so this is a very good move for them in that respect. As for here they are taking hold and I would be shocked if they don't take a lot of sales from the entry level DSLR's....and these cameras seem to be aimed at that D3100/5100 crowd.
  • MileHighAkoMileHighAko Registered Users Posts: 413 Major grins
    edited September 21, 2011
    There are a LOT of wannabe SLR owners out there that this camera system will be very attractive to. These folks love snapshots, are interested in video, and are looking to increase their artistic capabilities, but are turned off by the DSLRs complexity and size. This new system provides exactly what they're looking for, and more. I'm interested to see the performance and quality of this new sensor. At x2.7 crop factor, will it be able to suck in enough light to make higher ISOs clean? Can't wait to see.

    Just keep in mind that owners of this system will use it very differently than owners of a DSLR system, although of course there will be some cross-over.
  • ZerodogZerodog Registered Users Posts: 1,480 Major grins
    edited September 21, 2011
    ziggy53 wrote: »
    I suspect that this image may show that:

    banner.png
    Soooooooo cool!
  • Coney_Island_GaryConey_Island_Gary Registered Users Posts: 56 Big grins
    edited September 21, 2011
    2 points on this:

    1) Many of the m4/3 owners I know are simply snapshot photographers who wanted better low light images, Nikon is probably looking at this same market.

    2) Sensor size seems to have a role to play with how much dust is sucked on/how hard it is to get off. With Nikon's sensor being smaller than 4/3 I don't see this being a huge issue as I have never cared one bit about changing lenses on a 4/3 and I've also never had a dust spot. Unlike the D700 where if you look at it the wrong way while changing lenses you get them. And my APS-C cameras got them a lot less often than the D700 even without any sensor cleaning mechanisms.

    Mirrorless cameras are also huge in Japan so this is a very good move for them in that respect. As for here they are taking hold and I would be shocked if they don't take a lot of sales from the entry level DSLR's....and these cameras seem to be aimed at that D3100/5100 crowd.

    I started with an E520 4/3 and liked it a lot; however, when Oly abandoned me by pushing the little toy camera, I got rid of it and moved to Nikon D90. I was happy with the images that the E520 and the collection of lenses made but the little Oly cameras are not an ergonomic fit for me. While these things may sell well in Japan, I think that the average America consumer (as lazy as she/he maybe) will turn to the P7100 before shelling out the money for the Nikon 1. And if as you say, "I don't see this being a huge issue as I have never cared one bit about changing lenses on a 4/3", if changing lenses is not an issue, why spend the money for a camera that has this as its priorty feature? It might be better to purchase a just released P7100.

    Sensor dust, just imagine when mom or dad are at the beach (as shown in the marketing photo) shooting their son in the vollyball match and they decide it is time to change lenses. Sand and open camera not a good thing (no matter the size of the sensor).
    Gary from Coney Island, Brooklyn, NY
  • basfltbasflt Registered Users Posts: 1,882 Major grins
    edited September 21, 2011
    rapnjar wrote: »
    W I simply cant see what Nikon is going after with this design.

    Jeff
    after Canon , ofcourse , who also make these things , not the public
    they just wanna compete :D
  • Stuart-MStuart-M Registered Users Posts: 157 Major grins
    edited September 21, 2011
    The pink one will sell to folks who just want an expensive camera in pink. The black one if fugly though, can't see that one selling much. Missed opportunity, maybe Canon can do better, it's an open goal now.
  • RedSoxRedSox Registered Users Posts: 92 Big grins
    edited September 21, 2011
    I wish Canon can have the same approach as Sony does, stick with the big sensors, make a 5DMarkII type of mirrorless. It will be awesome for HD video, ordinary and studio type still photograph. Let the DSLR take care of the sports and action.
  • borrowlenses.comborrowlenses.com Registered Users Posts: 441 Major grins
    edited September 21, 2011
    We're all kind of scratching our heads on this one.
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  • HarrybHarryb Registered Users, Retired Mod Posts: 22,708 Major grins
    edited September 21, 2011
    The key thing here is that it is clearly not being positioned as a DSLR replacement. Its aimed for the perceived market of folks who want something better than a Coolpix w/o the weight and cost of s DSLR system. It has a good video features and will provide better IQ than a digicam. Almost all of the other mirrorless options on the market are being pushed as DSLR replacements and in some cases as "DSLR killers".

    Its also pretty clear to Nikon DSLR users that there are no plans in place to minimize its DSLR line.

    I have absolutely zero interest in the camera but most consumers don't share my perspective.
    Harry
    http://behret.smugmug.com/ NANPA member
    How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
  • cab.in.bostoncab.in.boston Registered Users Posts: 634 Major grins
    edited September 21, 2011
    Harryb wrote: »
    Its aimed for the perceived market of folks who want something better than a Coolpix w/o the weight and cost of a DSLR system.

    They didn't do very well, then. $900 for the V1 with the kit lens seems like way too high if they are trying to fill a gap below their DSLRs. Add a couple of more lenses, and you might as well go with a D7000, let alone a D3100/5100. So weight and size, I can agree with, but they're pricing themselves into a strange place, IMO. It will be interesting to see what street price really is.
    Father, husband, dog lover, engineer, Nikon shooter
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  • jmphotocraftjmphotocraft Registered Users Posts: 2,987 Major grins
    edited September 21, 2011
    Epic Failure.
    main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=255&g2_serialNumber=2
    -Jack

    An "accurate" reproduction of a scene and a good photograph are often two different things.
  • ziggy53ziggy53 Super Moderators Posts: 23,765 moderator
    edited September 21, 2011
    I don't think that a crop 2.7x mirrorless camera is anything I am interested in for my applications, but I'm willing to wait until the professional reviews come in and some user reviews demonstrate the real-life capabilities (or lack of) before making any absolute judgements or recommendations.

    I am just so happy that Ashton isn't promoting this camera. mwink.gif
    ziggy53
    Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
  • CameronCameron Registered Users Posts: 745 Major grins
    edited September 21, 2011
    ziggy53 wrote: »
    I am just so happy that Ashton isn't promoting this camera. mwink.gif

    Oh there's still time... mwink.gif
    On a more serious note, I agree with all the other sentiments. It seems like this is a product that simply doesn't fit the market that was most anticipating its arrival. That doesn't mean it won't be a success, simply that it's not what most photographers were hoping for. ne_nau.gif
  • NikonsandVstromsNikonsandVstroms Registered Users Posts: 990 Major grins
    edited September 22, 2011
    I started with an E520 4/3 and liked it a lot; however, when Oly abandoned me by pushing the little toy camera, I got rid of it and moved to Nikon D90. I was happy with the images that the E520 and the collection of lenses made but the little Oly cameras are not an ergonomic fit for me. While these things may sell well in Japan, I think that the average America consumer (as lazy as she/he maybe) will turn to the P7100 before shelling out the money for the Nikon 1. And if as you say, "I don't see this being a huge issue as I have never cared one bit about changing lenses on a 4/3", if changing lenses is not an issue, why spend the money for a camera that has this as its priorty feature? It might be better to purchase a just released P7100.

    Sensor dust, just imagine when mom or dad are at the beach (as shown in the marketing photo) shooting their son in the vollyball match and they decide it is time to change lenses. Sand and open camera not a good thing (no matter the size of the sensor).

    I was saying this not as "it is no big deal to change lenses" but as "dust was no big deal with the 4/3, I changed lenses in all sorts of conditions and never had a spot on my sensor" and since I have 4/3, APS-C, and full frame I can say from my personal experience the smaller sensor does a lot to keep dust off and/or increase the anti-dust sensor shake system. So Nikon's even smaller sensor should not have an issue with it.

    As for the camera VS a P7100....if Nikon can get 2 stops over that sensor in performance they have a winner. Again all anecdotal evidence but I help a lot of people on other forums asking what camera to move up to. When I ask what they want low light performance is usually at the top of the list. Add in a faster AF and they have 2 of the major gripes with compact cameras covered. Also the P7100 isn't really that pocketable....the smaller P300 is already at the limit for me at least so if the form factor is to fit in a coat or cargo pants pocket then they will probably hit it with the new mirrorless cameras.

    Now these are the initial offerings so the prices are higher to get money from early adopters to offset costs...the 400-500 dollar price point is key for a product like this to take off. The issue that comes up is who will be the early adopters to get the ball rolling since as far as we know the camera isn't anything too crazy. If Nikon pulled some D3 style magic and has a very sensitive CMOS sensor in there or very fast AF that could be their initial niche but it needs something like that to differentiate it.

    If they can establish that base though and come out with a pancake or 2 along with cheaper bodies this CX format has a chance but other than the video features (like 1,200 FPS) nothing is screaming as a must have for someone from what we know as of today.

    My other issue is styling, Coolpix cameras are boring usually but these have a bold big and weird 1 in the middle of the simple design which makes no sense. This is no EP-1 that's for sure...but Nikon is a big company and they can afford a bad first line of products as long as the next one (in 6-12 months) knocks it out of the park.
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