Originally Posted by ChrisJ Dell XPS 600 ------------ Pentium D 950 (Dual Core) 3.4 GHz Windows XP Pro 512 MB nVidia GeForce 7900 GTX 2 GB RAM (no option for more) 2 * 250 Gig SATA disks DVD Burner + DVD-ROM (2 seperate drives) 13-format Media card reader *no* monitor (+$160 for 20" Widescreen LCD) Soundblaster Audio (no speakers) Basic Keyboard Logitech G5 Laser Gaming Mouse $3244 ($3404 with monitor). Probably get to 8 Gig RAM and stay around $3600. I'm not a Dell fanboy... just first place I looked.

So, what you're saying, is, Waxy's full of it and there's not much difference, a few hundred, we all knew that anyhow

Originally Posted by Andy So, what you're saying, is, Waxy's full of it and there's not much difference, a few hundred, we all knew that anyhow

There's something desperately insecure about you Mac boys. In the recent threads, it's always you lads looking for a fight.

It's a very odd thing.

As for apples to Apples, if you care to read the thread I started, you'll see a couple of rather powerful systems that cost about $900 less than anything comparable from Apple. Systems which conform to my "disposable" philosophy.

Facts are facts. Even if they seem to tweak you guys. And I'm speaking as someone who's completely open-minded and on the cusp of making a purchase. Lord protect me from being infected with whatever it is that you guys have.

Originally Posted by wxwax There's something desperately insecure about you Mac boys. In the recent threads, it's always you lads looking for a fight. It's a very odd thing. As for apples to Apples, if you care to read the thread I started, you'll see a couple of rather powerful systems that cost about $900 less than anything comparable from Apple. Systems which conform to my "disposable" philosophy. Facts are facts. Even if they seem to tweak you guys. And I'm speaking as someone who's completely open-minded and on the cusp of making a purchase. Lord protect me from being infected with whatever it is that you guys have.

I'm thinking you have selective memory.

Anyway, all that aside, PC hardware is a bit cheaper, no doubt. Better value? Not sure, but I don't think you can just compare the hardware. It's the whole package, and in that measure, to my mind, Apple wins, hands down.

Originally Posted by wxwax There's something desperately insecure about you Mac boys. In the recent threads, it's always you lads looking for a fight. It's a very odd thing.

got your goat

Originally Posted by DavidTO I'm thinking you have selective memory.

That, my friend, was bait.

Just like Andy's.

Originally Posted by Andy got your goat

Guilty.

Originally Posted by DavidTO Anyway, all that aside, PC hardware is a bit cheaper, no doubt. Better value? Not sure, but I don't think you can just compare the hardware. It's the whole package, and in that measure, to my mind, Apple wins, hands down.

You may be right. It's definitely an important part of my thinking as I get within 24 hours of laying out some cash.

Originally Posted by wxwax That, my friend, was bait. Just like Andy's.

I'm confused.

Originally Posted by DavidTO I'm confused.

Bait is what you put on a hook when you're fishing. Sometimes, fishing is called trolling.

Originally Posted by wxwax Bait is what you put on a hook when you're fishing. Sometimes, fishing is called trolling.

<sigh>

I understand *that*. What I don't understand is how you could fall for Andy's at the same time bait a trap for me. Something's rotten in Denmark, my friend....


Oh, and---get a Mac!

Originally Posted by DavidTO <sigh> I understand *that*. What I don't understand is how you could fall for Andy's at the same time bait a trap for me. Something's rotten in Denmark, my friend.... Oh, and---get a Mac!

I didn't lay the bait, Gus did.

As for the rest... well, let's just say if I get a Mac, I'm also getting an innoculation!

Originally Posted by DavidTO Oh, and---get a Mac!

All this hawt Mac talk is getting me SO EXCITED!

I might have to buy the 15" Macbook Pro now afterall.

Originally Posted by wxwax I didn't lay the bait, Gus did. As for the rest... well, let's just say when I get a Mac, I'm also getting an innovation!

fixed it for you, Sid.

Originally Posted by wxwax I didn't lay the bait, Gus did. As for the rest... well, let's just say if I get a Mac, I'm also getting an innoculation!

Sid, maybe you're backed up a bit:

Originally Posted by Andy All this hawt Mac talk is getting me SO EXCITED! I might have to buy the 15" Macbook Pro now afterall.

If I go Mac, I'm thinking a 17" Macbook Pro in about 12 months, after they're sorted out the issues and expanded the memory limit.

If you buy now, you're buying a machine that's already obsolete.

Originally Posted by Andy Machine Name: Power Mac G5 Quad Machine Model: PowerMac CPU Type: PowerPC G5 (1.1) Number Of CPUs: 4 CPU Speed: 2.5 GHz L2 Cache (per CPU): 1 MB Memory: 4.5 GB Bus Speed: 1.25 GHz Fred Miranda Test: 11 seconds Retouch Pro Test: 23 seconds (8 bit file); 28 seconds (16 bit file)

Machine Name: PowerBook G4 15"
Machine Model: PowerBook
CPU Type: PowerPC G4 (1.5)
Number Of CPUs: 1
CPU Speed: 1.67 GHz
L2 Cache (per CPU): 512 KB
Memory: 2 GB
Bus Speed: 167 MHz
Boot ROM Version: 4.9.6f0


Here are the same results on my Powerbook G4:


Fred Miranda Test: 67 seconds
Retouch Pro Test: 119 seconds (8 bit file)

Originally Posted by Andy Curious, what does $3600 buy in Winders-land?

Velocity Micro
AMD Athlon X2 4800+ with liquid cooling
550 Watt Antec® TRUE POWER 2.0 Quiet Power Supply with 120mm Smart Fan (SLI Certified by NVIDIA
2GB DDR 400
nVidia 7900GT 256mb dual dvi
Creative Labs SoundBlaster® X-Fi™ XtremeMusic, Enhanced MP3 playback, realistic surround,
Hard Drive 1 400GB Western Digital 4000YR 7200rpm SATA/150, 16MB Cache
Hard Drive 2 750GB Seagate Barracuda 7200rpm SATA/150/300, 16MB Cache - with NCQ
Optical Drive 1 16x Lite On® DVD+/-RW/CD-RW Dual Layer,
Optical Drive 2 16x DVD/48x CD-RW Lite On® Combo Drive,
Floppy Drive & Media Reader 1.44MB Floppy Drive,

and of course some other stuff, 8 usb ports 2 FW (not 800 though) of course the 800 versions from apple are slow anyway

$3525

From Apple
Quad Core with 512mb (add 100-150 to up it to 2GB)
2x 500GB drives- close as I could match
256mb 7800GT- not 7900- there is a performance difference

$4524 without the extra ram

From apple dual 2.3 a MUCH slower system than the Athlon in EVERY conceivable way

$3724 without the extra Ram
2x500gb
7800GT

Yes Apple is more expensive

Yes Apple uses last years PC parts, witness the outdated video card offering.

OSX will soon be easily available for your ordinary windows box.

Apple offers a piddly 90days of tech support.

Proprietary parts mean if it breaks out of warranty you can junk it.

The MB is like $800 or something ridiculous like that.

So you can add the $300 or so for the Apple "protection" plan that they essentially extort out of you because of the expense to repair.

It will soon all be moot once Apple switches the desktops over to Intel and the MBs will be the same, although Apple will still charge 4 times the price for one if it breaks out of warranty. Jeeze 4 times the price for a different CMOS chip.

Gene

Gene if the top rig is yours, show us the times on the two blur tests. I'm curious.

Originally Posted by kini62 Yes Apple is more expensive Yes Apple uses last years PC parts, witness the outdated video card offering. OSX will soon be easily available for your ordinary windows box. Apple offers a piddly 90days of tech support. Proprietary parts mean if it breaks out of warranty you can junk it. The MB is like $800 or something ridiculous like that. So you can add the $300 or so for the Apple "protection" plan that they essentially extort out of you because of the expense to repair. It will soon all be moot once Apple switches the desktops over to Intel and the MBs will be the same, although Apple will still charge 4 times the price for one if it breaks out of warranty. Jeeze 4 times the price for a different CMOS chip. Gene

You get a year warranty. Phone support is limited to 90 days. The G5 is long in the tooth, no doubt, and it's overdue for an update. No doubt that the parts they're using could be newer, the whole unit's waiting for the migration to Intel, a major undertaking for Apple. The hardware will lag a bit during the transition.

You may be able to install OSX on a PC, but it won't be available, as far as I know. At that point you would be stealing.

Aside from the CPU, I don't know of anything that's proprietary. I buy off-the shelf components all the time for Apple products.

AppleCare is $250 for most products, and extends the 1 year warranty to a full 3 years. It's more than paid for itself with my recently sold PowerBook. Good service, the best in the biz.

The MB is actually more ridiculous than you posted, at $1100.

The thing about all of this price comparison, is that I don't believe you can just compare the hardware. Windows will win every time, since the software bundled on the Mac is so far ahead of Windows. Not to mention that Windows has all the cheap, crippled versions of XP that are installed to shave pennies off of the price...then you want the full version, all of a sudden you're paying more.

The packaging and pricing is different, making the PC seem oh-so-much cheaper. It may be a bit, but feature for feature, the Mac is very competitive. I'm talking hardware, software, support, reliability, the whole package.

Originally Posted by DavidTO The MB is actually more ridiculous than you posted, at $1100. The thing about all of this price comparison, is that I don't believe you can just compare the hardware. Windows will win every time, since the software bundled on the Mac is so far ahead of Windows. Not to mention that Windows has all the cheap, crippled versions of XP that are installed to shave pennies off of the price...then you want the full version, all of a sudden you're paying more. The packaging and pricing is different, making the PC seem oh-so-much cheaper. It may be a bit, but feature for feature, the Mac is very competitive. I'm talking hardware, software, support, reliability, the whole package.

Dunno about the XP thing, not what I got at the corner store, I had the full deal for my last $800 computer.

I think you have a good case for support and reliability. Maybe software, if we're only talking about the OS. For other software, the variety for PCs is pretty overwhelming.

Problem is, selling on support and reliability, even ease of use, is tough versus competitors selling on price. Especially when computers are mostly viewed as commodities. That must have something to do with Apple's market share and its recent marketing strategies (Minis, iMacs etc.)