An excellent article I came across from dpreview:
http://www.paintercreativity.com/art...p-10-lies.html

I have seen a number of these ploys as a photographer. This advice is worth its weight in gold!

Number one on the list:
1 "Do this one cheap (or free) and we'll make it up on the next one."

Originally Posted by Shay Stephens An excellent article I came across from dpreview: http://www.paintercreativity.com/art...p-10-lies.html I have seen a number of these ploys as a photographer. This advice is worth its weight in gold! Number one on the list: 1 "Do this one cheap (or free) and we'll make it up on the next one."

Wow Shay it looks like they have been going through Craigslist listings hehehe. I think that the other one that they forgot was the "contest" to see who comes up with the best logo/photograph/art for a new line of whatever. Great read

Thanks

You mean like the smugmug clothing costest where they are giving away like 4-5 thousand dollars worth of prizes?

Cheap design for them, and a great opportunity for talented ameteurs to catch a break on some cool hardware.

You may want to read the article before commenting on it

It deals with companies that are trying to rip you off, and the lies they tell to try and do it.

Originally Posted by sirsloop You mean like the smugmug clothing costest where they are giving away like 4-5 thousand dollars worth of prizes? Cheap design for them, and a great opportunity for talented ameteurs to catch a break on some cool hardware.

The smugmug contest is legit and I do not have a problem with it since I know that they are on the up and up. In the Creative Gigs section of craigslist you will see all the ploys listed in article that Shay posted. Show us you best logo for our company, this is a great way for you to get exposure, this could lead you to bigger contracts from us. Take a look at the Craigslist for your area and I am sure that you will see them.

Actually I did read the article. You made mention that companies post things on craigslist in order to get free logo designs done for them under false pretense that there would be money paid out to the best one. I just made a comment that there are legit ones such as the smugmug contest...

I think those 10 rules are common knowledge for street smart people. Pretty much fundamentals on how not to get screwed.

Yeah, I've heard a few of these already. The exposure one seems to be the one people use on me the most.

Originally Posted by ballentphoto Wow Shay it looks like they have been going through Craigslist listings

Originally Posted by Shay Stephens Number one on the list: 1 "Do this one cheap (or free) and we'll make it up on the next one."

Often you don't have to say it. Folks cut their rate hoping that it's true.

Probably an aspiring designer, or someone just out of school trying to get anything completed so they can put it in their portfolio.

A lot of times someone who hasn't gone the design school route wants to have some samples in order to get work, or someone in school who wants portfolio pieces. Or a person having a career change to design who might be older and is looked down on as not young and not a recent graduate who needs samples for their portfolio.

It is so difficult to break into design and to get legitimate portfolio pieces (not school work) that the designer is desperate...

Also, it's easy for anyone to set up a website and call themselves a designer (or a photographer, or whatever...)

From the company's viewpoint, they could say to themselves -- we're tired of paying designers for their work when what they produce is not what we are looking for, so let's open our project up to new designers/fresh blood so to speak. Whether or not they actually pay, I don't know since I haven't answered any of these.

Getting design work has become so difficult that one has to audition for pro bono work!!!! (free work donated to a charitable or non-profit cause)

The dot com got so many people to become "designers" (and web designers) and then it went bust leaving a lot of designers out of work. A lot of agencies went out of business due to the dot com bust, and that too, left a lot of designers out of work. So here's a large group of people who may have gone into debt to pay for their schooling without any job opportunities.

From the hiring angle, I used to read hundreds of resumés, and interviewed a good number of designers. Often the work they actually produced did not match the quality of their portfolio pieces.

So I can understand why some companies will only accept "on spec" designs and layouts from designers they have not worked with before... but it seems a lot of small companies decided to take advantage of that practice and use it to get work for free.

Then there are designers still charging dot com prices... When faced with $150 an hour for photoshop work and $120 for illustration work and $90 an hour for design work, it's easier to post in gigs and get some new talent to do it for a lot less (or for free).

Then there's the "internet sites" that offer jobs to designers -- and it seems the U.S. designers never get any work because these firms offering jobs want to pay $2.00 an hour or less.

So I can see how designers would risk not getting paid just to have samples because without samples they can't get work. Same with web designers... give me the URLs to the sites you've designed....

Then there's this one designer the boss hired that just copied work that fit the project blatently from other designers -- and when "caught" in the act said "that's what they taught us in school." The designer had a box of pages torn out of magazines, brochures, etc. to steal designs from (not ideas, designs).

And now you can purchase layouts or get free ones from the internet and use those -- why pay a designer when your admin assistant wants to be a designer and couldn't get design work and will be glad to use the layout in order to do anything creative? Maybe the boss will see their talent and let them into the company's design work.

I remember when the latest career push was for web designers and now you can use free templates without any knowledge of web design... the web students who went with design and not programming are left in the cold now because anyone can design a website, even your neighbor's 11 year old!

And photography has sort of gone the same way. With digital cameras within reach, anyone can be a photographer and an employer/client has the same problem, weeding through resumés, searching through thousands of websites trying to find the style and skill set they need for their project.

I'm surprised I don't see more "gigs" for photographers than I do on craigslist -- I guess they buy a camera and just have their employees take pictures...

I think instead of seeing less of this type of stuff we will continue to see more and more of it, unfortunately.

But it was a good article, and very realistic! And a good warning to people trying to break into the field.

Hey Shay!

Your check's in the mail.

Your pal,
Ian

Originally Posted by Shay Stephens Number one on the list: 1 "Do this one cheap (or free) and we'll make it up on the next one."

Meanwhile, this sometimes works: I've recently covered a storie with everything being paid… except me. But I'm a "rookie" and the exposure was good. At the time I did it, I felt not very well: it's been hard, the journalist wasn't really cool with me…

But I did some really good shots during these 4 days. What happens, next? Well, I've got a very nice 4-pages to show to anyone. Plus, the magazine called me back with money: now I have a portrait to do, and I'll be paid.

Of course, I gave him a big gift of maybe $1400 for the first story (they paid the plane and everything of course : don't ever pay any fee !) but I'm out of no photoschool. I've been through sociology and it's hard to begin in the photo business.

I will tell them next time I see them that they MUST fix a rate for further works, but it helped me, anyway.

Meanwhile, one thing I won't do on a long/regular basis is doing internship as the only photography: this kind of attitude is killing some pros! What should the chief earn very much money, and not the photographer? damn it…