Going to Photography School?

SamirD · July 21, 2007

I've thought about this in the past, but never paid any mind to it until it hit me today--I am totally in love with photography, moreso than I ever imagined.

So, now I want to learn everything I can to maximize whatever talent I have. I'm thinking about schools, but don't really know if this is the approach I need to achieve my goal.

My goals is to learn additional techniques and skills to allow me to capture a moment the way I see it. In other words, I want to learn how to take any type of photo and the techniques behind it so I can apply any of those techniques to any photo I take. And then I can build on that.

Any feedback appreciated.

gus · July 21, 2007

Everyones going to have different ideas but mine is that photography is about imagination & that cant be taught. Your mind is the best teacher.

LiquidAir · July 21, 2007

SamirD wrote:

I've thought about this in the past, but never paid any mind to it until it hit me today--I am totally in love with photography, moreso than I ever imagined.

So, now I want to learn everything I can to maximize whatever talent I have. I'm thinking about schools, but don't really know if this is the approach I need to achieve my goal.

My goals is to learn additional techniques and skills to allow me to capture a moment the way I see it. In other words, I want to learn how to take any type of photo and the techniques behind it so I can apply any of those techniques to any photo I take. And then I can build on that.

Any feedback appreciated.

The basics of photography are common across styles of shooting, but as you get more advanced of the techniques get more are more specialized to particular types photographs. If you compare at what Shay has to teach about weddings, Lord V. has to teach about macros, and Mark Muench has to teach about landscapes, you'll find amazing information from each of them but you'll also be amazed at how different it is. There is too much to learn about photography for any one person to learn it all. The first step is to look at what inspires you and let that drive what you study. A good way to start is to look at a lot of other people's photographs and find a set that you wish you had taken. Look carefully at those images to see what they have in common.

sirsloop · July 21, 2007

If I were to take a photography related class, it would be a post processing class. That applies to all aspects of photography. IMHO, for the actual shooting you just have to get out there and practice. Maybe I should't say practice... just get out and shoot something (which is practice). People can preach the this and that technique, but in the end you are the one that has to pull it off. Actually doing it, making the mistakes (if you can even call it a mistake), and learning is the only way.

windoze · July 21, 2007

SamirD wrote:

I've thought about this in the past, but never paid any mind to it until it hit me today--I am totally in love with photography, moreso than I ever imagined.

So, now I want to learn everything I can to maximize whatever talent I have. I'm thinking about schools, but don't really know if this is the approach I need to achieve my goal.

My goals is to learn additional techniques and skills to allow me to capture a moment the way I see it. In other words, I want to learn how to take any type of photo and the techniques behind it so I can apply any of those techniques to any photo I take. And then I can build on that.

Any feedback appreciated.

check out www.ppsop.com

troy

quark · July 21, 2007

I think it depends on what your motivation is. If you just want to learn more because you enjoy photography go for it. If you want to go to school because you believe it will make you a more successful photographer be careful.
Talent is not taught in school and they can only help you improve your skills.

SamirD · July 22, 2007

gus wrote:

Everyones going to have different ideas but mine is that photography is about imagination & that cant be taught. Your mind is the best teacher.

I agree. With the access to high quality equipment now in the hands of everyone, talent is what starts to shine through.

I didn't think I had any talent in art, except for some optical illusions I drew in high school which won an international art competition in Japan. But it seems in photography I have something I must explore more fully.

The problem is that I can almost make any image in mind reality, even with the meager equipment I have, but there are still shots out there that I see that I wish I knew how to take. If I can master those techniques, then I can add those to my creativity arsenal when composing the shot in my mind. And then I can start down the path of becoming a true artist with my own style.

SamirD · July 22, 2007

LiquidAir wrote:

The basics of photography are common across styles of shooting, but as you get more advanced of the techniques get more are more specialized to particular types photographs. If you compare at what Shay has to teach about weddings, Lord V. has to teach about macros, and Mark Muench has to teach about landscapes, you'll find amazing information from each of them but you'll also be amazed at how different it is. There is too much to learn about photography for any one person to learn it all. The first step is to look at what inspires you and let that drive what you study. A good way to start is to look at a lot of other people's photographs and find a set that you wish you had taken. Look carefully at those images to see what they have in common.

Thank you very much for the reply.

I know what fuels my passion--trying to capture the shot. If it's easy or routine, then it's almost no fun. And so far my favorite subject is another one of my passions--motor vehicles.

But because I enjoy the challenge of taking a particular photo, I also want to learn the advanced techniques associated with weddings, macros, and landscapes. Even though these tools may not be used too often, I'm sure they would come in handy.

I've studied some galleries that I've run across, and admire those that can shoot with diversity and compose unique pieces regardless of the subject. That's the talent part of photography. But without the technical capability, the shot can't be captured--I feel this is where I am today.

It's like painting. Without knowing what colors and brushes are out there, how can you truly paint what you see? I want to learn about all the brushes and colors. Then my creativity can run free.

SamirD · July 22, 2007

sirsloop wrote:

If I were to take a photography related class, it would be a post processing class. That applies to all aspects of photography. IMHO, for the actual shooting you just have to get out there and practice. Maybe I should't say practice... just get out and shoot something (which is practice). People can preach the this and that technique, but in the end you are the one that has to pull it off. Actually doing it, making the mistakes (if you can even call it a mistake), and learning is the only way.

I've been shooting for about 3-4 years now and have shot somewhere near 200k+ pictures.

And while I've learned tremendous things as I've done the "I wonder what this button does" technique, as well as reading the manual and online, I still find myself hitting a ceiling using this method of learning. I've learned 90% of what I'm going to learn this way--and I want more.

I don't know where I can learn more. School was just one thought.

tarlynxeno · July 23, 2007

I have NEVER heard anyone who has gone thru a photography school say it was a waste of time. It seems to me that everyone who says you don't need it, hasn't gotten a degree in it. I would have given ANYTHING to have the time and money to go to school, instead i've spent years struggling to get where I am and it's been a long hard road. CAN you do it without going to school? yes you can. Would I want to do it the same way again? No!

LiquidAir · July 23, 2007

SamirD wrote:

Thank you very much for the reply.

I know what fuels my passion--trying to capture the shot. If it's easy or routine, then it's almost no fun. And so far my favorite subject is another one of my passions--motor vehicles.

But because I enjoy the challenge of taking a particular photo, I also want to learn the advanced techniques associated with weddings, macros, and landscapes. Even though these tools may not be used too often, I'm sure they would come in handy.

I've studied some galleries that I've run across, and admire those that can shoot with diversity and compose unique pieces regardless of the subject. That's the talent part of photography. But without the technical capability, the shot can't be captured--I feel this is where I am today.

It's like painting. Without knowing what colors and brushes are out there, how can you truly paint what you see? I want to learn about all the brushes and colors. Then my creativity can run free.

One thing I have been doing over the last year that has completely reshaped my photography is shoot still lifes. I have two flashes than I can use off camera with a variety of (mostly improvised) light modifiers. This is something that any photography school will have you do, but you can do it on your own too. I find that the value of shooting still life scenes is that I have so much control over the final image that it makes me focus on what I want as opposed to just what I can get. It has fine tuned my vision and has helped me think more clearly when I am shooting other subjects.

SamirD · July 23, 2007

windoze wrote:

check out www.ppsop.com

troy

Great link! This is another avenue I was thinking of.

SamirD · July 23, 2007

tarlynxeno wrote:

I have NEVER heard anyone who has gone thru a photography school say it was a waste of time. It seems to me that everyone who says you don't need it, hasn't gotten a degree in it. I would have given ANYTHING to have the time and money to go to school, instead i've spent years struggling to get where I am and it's been a long hard road. CAN you do it without going to school? yes you can. Would I want to do it the same way again? No!

Some great insight. Where did you go to school? What should and shouldn't I expect from a school?

SamirD · July 23, 2007

quark wrote:

I think it depends on what your motivation is. If you just want to learn more because you enjoy photography go for it. If you want to go to school because you believe it will make you a more successful photographer be careful.
Talent is not taught in school and they can only help you improve your skills.

The motivation is to be the best that I can possibly be at this, whatever that may mean. I may fall super-short of being a true pro. On the other hand, I may have so much natural talent that without a formal education it would have taken me a lifetime to get to my peak.

If I could work for a few years for a major sport publication cover motorsports, then I think I'd be content. Then I'd probably quit and move onto something else that I want to see my full potential in. I'm actually not looking for a job or a career after all this. Although, I wouldn't turn it down if I truly enjoyed it.

SamirD · July 23, 2007

LiquidAir wrote:

One thing I have been doing over the last year that has completely reshaped my photography is shoot still lifes. I have two flashes than I can use off camera with a variety of (mostly improvised) light modifiers. This is something that any photography school will have you do, but you can do it on your own too. I find that the value of shooting still life scenes is that I have so much control over the final image that it makes me focus on what I want as opposed to just what I can get. It has fine tuned my vision and has helped me think more clearly when I am shooting other subjects.

In high school, we had to draw various still life objects. I wasn't talented with drawing, but I definitely see what you mean by locking your focus. You have so much time to study your subject that you see things you wouldn't see ordinarily.

One of the things that broadens my ability is when I look at another photographer's work that stuns me. I'll stare it a while and soak in all the details. Then the next time I open my eyes as a photographer, the influence comes through. I can only imagine what a year or more of exposure to good work coupled with professional instruction will do.

gus · July 24, 2007

tarlynxeno wrote:

I have NEVER heard anyone who has gone thru a photography school say it was a waste of time.

I have. Thats the great thing about forums...its widens our view.

tarlynxeno · July 24, 2007

gus wrote:

I have. Thats the great thing about forums...its widens our view.

Did they graduate? Because I know plenty of people who dropped out of various programs who said it was a waste of time. I know plenty of people who have gone to a place like halmark or brooks or another photographic school who didn't think it was worth their time to go to a real college and get a degree, i know people who have gotten two year degrees and said it wasn't worth going back for their four year degree.. but never have i spoke to (or typed to) a person who has said their education was useless and a waste of time. I have friends in several different careers who have struggled up thru the ranks without a formal education, and not one of them CHOSE not to go to school. We've all become successfull at what we do, but know it would have been easier with an education. It's not "just a piece of paper", it's experience, knowledge and practice.

gus · July 24, 2007

tarlynxeno wrote:

Did they graduate? Because I know plenty of people who dropped out of various programs who said it was a waste of time. I know plenty of people who have gone to a place like halmark or brooks or another photographic school who didn't think it was worth their time to go to a real college and get a degree, i know people who have gotten two year degrees and said it wasn't worth going back for their four year degree.. but never have i spoke to (or typed to) a person who has said their education was useless and a waste of time. I have friends in several different careers who have struggled up thru the ranks without a formal education, and not one of them CHOSE not to go to school. We've all become successfull at what we do, but know it would have been easier with an education. It's not "just a piece of paper", it's experience, knowledge and practice.

First up...welcome to d/grin. I am & others in this thread of a different opinon to you. Please accept that.

Art Scott · July 24, 2007

SamirD wrote:

I've thought about this in the past, but never paid any mind to it until it hit me today--I am totally in love with photography, moreso than I ever imagined.

So, now I want to learn everything I can to maximize whatever talent I have. I'm thinking about schools, but don't really know if this is the approach I need to achieve my goal.

My goals is to learn additional techniques and skills to allow me to capture a moment the way I see it. In other words, I want to learn how to take any type of photo and the techniques behind it so I can apply any of those techniques to any photo I take. And then I can build on that.

Any feedback appreciated.

I am curious about why you want to go to school for photography.....Do you want a degree that will help land you a job with some one prestigious??

Are you just wanting to lean more techniques such as you would learn from different workshops??

Some of my friends have graduated from Schools like Brooks Institute with a Masters in Photography, some have gotten a diploma from schools like NYIP by correspondence.....there are many ways to get a formal education in photography...it really depends on what you want and need.

Some colleges only offer photography thru their journalism school...so you lean to shoot for a newspaper and are usually required to shoot for the school paper thru out your time attending the school (they normally also pay you for this work).....but it's few and far between to find a college of fine art that has a degree course in Photography, most will have several classes on photography but for some reason this art is not considered "real art", but the same people will go bananas over Ansel Adams, or Andy WArhols photography, Josef Sudek {the Poet of Prague} or any of the other many Masters of our Art.....So the best schools are the specializewd ones such as those found with adverts in the Photograpphy mags out there and then you have to specialize just like in any art school.......

Here is a LINK to a simple GOOGLE search for PHOTOGRAPHY SCHOOLS .....

Hope this Helps...........

stirfry · July 24, 2007

Art Scott wrote:

I am curious about why you want to go to school for photography.....Do you want a degree that will help land you a job with some one prestigious??

Are you just wanting to lean more techniques such as you would learn from different workshops??

I've been sort of entertaining the idea of a photography program, too - so I appreciate the original post and question.

I have a bad habit of collecting degrees and certificates. I absolutely LOVE school not only for the learning aspect but just because it gives me something to do and makes me feel productive. I'm the original perpetual student! I've been toying with the idea of going back yet another time, trying to decide between photography and asian languages. Yeah, I know

.

The above quote has sort of helped me pin down my thought process more, so I thank you for the knock over the head. I have no interest in landing a gig as a photographer (which is fortunate for me, as it would be an ambitious goal

) I would just like to better learn how to use my camera and some accessories. I'm not sure why it never occurred to me to look for workshops in my area, but that is definitely what I need to do

I'm slow ... sometimes I need to be spoonfed the obvious lol.

Whew ~ major life decision made and it ain't even noon yet! :ivar

Art Scott · July 24, 2007

stirfry wrote:

I've been sort of entertaining the idea of a photography program, too - so I appreciate the original post and question.

I have a bad habit of collecting degrees and certificates. I absolutely LOVE school not only for the learning aspect but just because it gives me something to do and makes me feel productive. I'm the original perpetual student! I've been toying with the idea of going back yet another time, trying to decide between photography and asian languages. Yeah, I know .

The above quote has sort of helped me pin down my thought process more, so I thank you for the knock over the head. I have no interest in landing a gig as a photographer (which is fortunate for me, as it would be an ambitious goal ) I would just like to better learn how to use my camera and some accessories. I'm not sure why it never occurred to me to look for workshops in my area, but that is definitely what I need to do I'm slow ... sometimes I need to be spoonfed the obvious lol.

Whew ~ major life decision made and it ain't even noon yet! :ivar

Does your area have a camera club......a lot of them offer workshops as well as the camaraderie that some people can use to learn how to take better photos.....also a simple correspondance course might be the way to go check out New York Institute of Photography.......might be just the ting for you.............

stirfry · July 24, 2007

Art Scott wrote:

Does your area have a camera club......a lot of them offer workshops as well as the camaraderie that some people can use to learn how to take better photos.....also a simple correspondance course might be the way to go check out New York Institute of Photography.......might be just the ting for you.............

Apparently there is a healthy community of camera crazies here in my local community. How did people live before the internet and google??

Checking out New York Institute of Photography ... I'm not sure I'm disciplined enough for a corresopondance course but it would definitely allow me to continue on with other schooling plans. Thanks for the tip

SamirD · July 26, 2007

Art Scott wrote:

I am curious about why you want to go to school for photography.....Do you want a degree that will help land you a job with some one prestigious??

Are you just wanting to lean more techniques such as you would learn from different workshops??

Some of my friends have graduated from Schools like Brooks Institute with a Masters in Photography, some have gotten a diploma from schools like NYIP by correspondence.....there are many ways to get a formal education in photography...it really depends on what you want and need.

Some colleges only offer photography thru their journalism school...so you lean to shoot for a newspaper and are usually required to shoot for the school paper thru out your time attending the school (they normally also pay you for this work).....but it's few and far between to find a college of fine art that has a degree course in Photography, most will have several classes on photography but for some reason this art is not considered "real art", but the same people will go bananas over Ansel Adams, or Andy WArhols photography, Josef Sudek {the Poet of Prague} or any of the other many Masters of our Art.....So the best schools are the specializewd ones such as those found with adverts in the Photograpphy mags out there and then you have to specialize just like in any art school.......

Here is a LINK to a simple GOOGLE search for PHOTOGRAPHY SCHOOLS .....

Hope this Helps...........

Thank you for your reply.

To answer your question, I'm not really interested in a job, per se. At my soul I'm an entrepreneur, so that's where my life's gone so far, and not too badly. Now, saying that, if I could go shoot for a living for a few years as a job, I probably wouldn't turn it down just to see what it's really like.

What I am looking to learn are more skills and techniques that can arm me with the ability to better translate what I see (or don't yet see) into a picture. I'm usually pretty thorough when I learn because I'm always asking "why", so I'll need some background in theory as well as practice. I'm not sure if workshops can fit this or not, but I'm also not sure if a school can fill it either. I'm hoping someone has experienced what I'm going through and has a story to tell with some "if I knew then what I know now" advise.

I actually did the exact same search on Google before posting here and have been exploring several options that have come from that.

Michael Ray · July 27, 2007

I would suggest that you do one of two things...

1. go to a good school and start from scratch, learning the basics and evolving from there.

2. The second suggestion, given a decent current understanding of photography, is to find someone who's photography you worship and then beg them to be their slave. Work for nothing. It's far better than paying some school to give you a high percentage of imformation that you will have no use for. And remember the old saying. Those who can't "do", teach. Wouldn't you rather learn from someone that does "do"? Not being paid by your hero is a lot better than paying some school.

IMHO

Art Scott · July 27, 2007

Michael Ray wrote:

remember the old saying. Those who can't "do", teach. Wouldn't you rather learn from someone that does "do"? Not being paid by your hero is a lot better than paying some school.
IMHO

I am sure most photography Schools are a lot like most Fine Arts Collegs.....as a teacher you must still "DO" to keep their position even after tenure is established.....they must still produce works for shows and publications (not the school paper either)........finding a willing PRO photog that will accept you as a non paid apprentice is tough .......in a very klarge metro area (NY, Chicago, LA) it might be possible in an area like wichita all I heard was " you want my knowledge so you can still my cleints".......and I found this to be very common with all that I approached and that was way over 30 yrs ago.......a school can be benficial in teaching time lines also or deadlines if you will......I know some that really needs a course in this and they are fairly successful..............That little piece of paper does help to help ease clients minds ......................

Michael Ray · July 27, 2007

Art

First off, you can't believe anything you read from posters like yourself that have two first names. Everyone should know that. :+) Secondly, any pro that is worth admiring, isn't going to be afraid of some newbe stealing his clients. I will admit that it will be hard finding a position but just for the fact that the photographer is afraid that the slave will be more of a pain than they're worth. I know, I've had interns...

MR

SamirD · September 4, 2007

Michael Ray wrote:

I would suggest that you do one of two things...

1. go to a good school and start from scratch, learning the basics and evolving from there.

2. The second suggestion, given a decent current understanding of photography, is to find someone who's photography you worship and then beg them to be their slave. Work for nothing. It's far better than paying some school...

Some great suggestions. I've actually thought a lot about suggestion number two after seeing some of the six-figure bills that a formal education might give me.

It would probably take me a couple of years to save up for a formal education, and I don't really want to wait that long. Life is too short as it is.

swintonphoto · September 12, 2007

I graduated from college with a photography degree. I would highly recommend the experience. I work with a lot of other professionals and I feel I have a large leg up many things because of the training I got. It was definately NOT a waste of time - in fact- I am sure I am a much better photographer because of the training.
I attended Utah State University - a great program. The director of the program's name is Craig Law - he has recieved tons of money through grants from the Smithsonian to photograph all over the western US. He will teach you all you need to know.
http://www.art.usu.edu/emphasis/photography.php

binghott · September 13, 2007

DGrin U
(what would the dgrin u mascot be? the fighting smugmugs?)

evoryware · September 14, 2007

WOW this forum logged me out and then when I logged back in my whole post was gone. Quite upsetting.......

SamirD wrote:

Thank you for your reply.

To answer your question, I'm not really interested in a job, per se. At my soul I'm an entrepreneur, so that's where my life's gone so far, and not too badly. Now, saying that, if I could go shoot for a living for a few years as a job, I probably wouldn't turn it down just to see what it's really like.

What I am looking to learn are more skills and techniques that can arm me with the ability to better translate what I see (or don't yet see) into a picture. I'm usually pretty thorough when I learn because I'm always asking "why", so I'll need some background in theory as well as practice. I'm not sure if workshops can fit this or not, but I'm also not sure if a school can fill it either. I'm hoping someone has experienced what I'm going through and has a story to tell with some "if I knew then what I know now" advise.

I actually did the exact same search on Google before posting here and have been exploring several options that have come from that.

I started NYIP in December and am finishing up this weekend. I looked up NYIP and other schools for about 6 months before I jumped into NYIP. I was nervous about plunking down a grand for it (they sent me an offer for $650). Obviously there's questions about the validity of going to a photography school so I didn't tell too many people I was doing it while I validated it for myself. It's at your own pace and they say it takes as little as 6 months up to 2 years. It's mainly film based and so some of their pictures are dated, but don't let that fool you. There's not much difference between film and digital anymore and a good picture is a good picture regardless of what camera was used to take it. On that note, they are working on their digital lessons as they have no choice but to take it seriously if they want to continue to exist.
The purpose of the course is to teach you and help you develop on the basics, then help you pick what subjects you are most interested in which will help you whether you want to go professional or not. Even from the first lessons I learned little things about my camera that made me say "Oh! that's what that's for." Things that I used, but didn't understand the full capability of. Stopped me from asking 10,000 simple questions on these forums such as "What does 'stop down' really mean? Search brings up 500 results."
I did learn a good bit from the Monte Zucker DVD they provided, but they recently discontinued the advanced Monte Zucker Wedding and glamour DVD's that I was looking forward to receiving when I was finished.

My only regrets
1. I didn't start sooner.
2. In February when i had money to spare, I didn't decide between hotlights or strobes with modeling lamps and am stuck learning with pure strobes. Makes it much harder to learn. I would recommend strobe with modeling light even though I can get two 250-500w hotlights with umbrella and stand for half the price of 1 Flashpoint 620 monolight. But I am learning how to use flash on manual power which is something I NEVER thought I would grasp.

Originally Posted by Michael Ray
I would suggest that you do one of two things...

1. go to a good school and start from scratch, learning the basics and evolving from there.

2. The second suggestion, given a decent current understanding of photography, is to find someone who's photography you worship and then beg them to be their slave. Work for nothing. It's far better than paying some school...

My opinion now is #1 will lead to #2. eww

If you do the school and are still interested, then you will want to grab on to someone's coattails for the hands on training you didn't get. I wish I could have went to Shay's wedding workshop for example, but I will be looking for some local photogs to work with. (As I'm only part time employed doing sports photography, I would hope it's a paying job.)

HTH

SamirD · September 24, 2007

Thank you both for sharing your experiences. The more information I have, the better.

swintonphoto wrote:

I graduated from college with a photography degree. I would highly recommend the experience. I work with a lot of other professionals and I feel I have a large leg up many things because of the training I got. It was definately NOT a waste of time - in fact- I am sure I am a much better photographer because of the training.
I attended Utah State University - a great program. The director of the program's name is Craig Law - he has recieved tons of money through grants from the Smithsonian to photograph all over the western US. He will teach you all you need to know.
http://www.art.usu.edu/emphasis/photography.php

I took a look at their program. It's a true "art" school. I wouldn't be able to pass the pre-reqs unless they're not looking for any talented work. I mean, I can't draw worth a flip. :cry

Other than that, it seems like a program with a strong emphasis on theory and understanding at a deep level of what makes an image an image. How hands on did they get during your time there?

Going to Photography School?

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