Thanks again for offering this service and the tips to improve, I appreciate it. Thanks todd

Originally Posted by MichaelBandy I think the color is a bit more accurate. As far as the halo goes, I actually had not noticed it until you mentioned it. It is not from Gaussian Blur but most likely from overuse of the "Shadows & Highlights" feature in photoshop or too much sharpening. I did not shoot this Raw, though I wish I had. This was taken shortly after buying my first DSLR which I am still using. I now shoot RAW and am a bit more careful when it comes to post processing. As far as the footprint, those are things that I have learned to avoid as I have been improving on my technique. It is not a mistake I will be making again. At the time I can honestly tell you I did not notice it nor did I think about it. I have learned to have more attention to detail since then. I really love this little stretch of beach in Malibu, specifically for the rocks and boulders everywhere. I have been back many times but due to Southern California's proclivity for sunny cloudless days have not been able to duplicate the great sunset light I had on this day. On a side note I think I have much to learn about Post Processing (Photoshop, Lightroom, etc.). Do you have any classes or books/DVD's you can recommend that might be beneficial for me? Thanks again for your comments. I greatly appreciate them and I think it is awesome that you are doing this for all of us photogs looking to improve. Sincerely, Michael Bandy

Michael,

When dealing with colors on the internet just make sure you convert to sRGB prior to posting on most sites but especially dgrin. You will find this under the Edit menu in PS. Good to see you are using some cool features in PS like Gaussian Blur and sharpening. When I use shadow/highlights I only use the shadow portion therefore turn the highlights slider all the way off as it tends to only muddy them up. As for the shadows, I apply only very subtle alterations as anything else just adds too much noise. As you shoot more you will learn to take better exposures or understand when to take additional exposures on a tripod with more light, in other words bracket for the shadows. Later in post you can blend the exposures

Those darn footprints I am not saying footprints should NEVER be in a landscape image, only that you know when they are there and use them for part of the story if need be, or just keep them out.

That is a great location in Malibu We have been having many great evenings here in Santa Barbara so the opportunity is high this time of year you may have another evening like above.

I teach post processing in my workshops during critiques and I spend more time on post during the print workshops. If you would like to be added to our mailing list just visit our site for details. To be honest with you there is no book that I know of that explains my post processing techniques, as I have just taken bits and pieces from many masters and created the workflow for me. I do hope to write something in the future

I made a few changes to the jpeg file. First off, desaturated the blues. Second added more density to the rocks to just cover up the halo created by the S/H filter. Then finally converted from ProPhotoRGB to sRGB.




Shoot these kind of images in RAW and you will have the files to work on when you find time to work on your post processing skills. In the mean time if you need jpegs for emailing and general use, convert the RAW to jpeg through the Tools feature in Bridge, or LR has the same actions available.

Cheers

Originally Posted by Marc Muench Michael, When dealing with colors on the internet just make sure you convert to sRGB prior to posting on most sites but especially dgrin. You will find this under the Edit menu in PS. Good to see you are using some cool features in PS like Gaussian Blur and sharpening. When I use shadow/highlights I only use the shadow portion therefore turn the highlights slider all the way off as it tends to only muddy them up. As for the shadows, I apply only very subtle alterations as anything else just adds too much noise. As you shoot more you will learn to take better exposures or understand when to take additional exposures on a tripod with more light, in other words bracket for the shadows. Later in post you can blend the exposures Those darn footprints I am not saying footprints should NEVER be in a landscape image, only that you know when they are there and use them for part of the story if need be, or just keep them out. That is a great location in Malibu We have been having many great evenings here in Santa Barbara so the opportunity is high this time of year you may have another evening like above. I teach post processing in my workshops during critiques and I spend more time on post during the print workshops. If you would like to be added to our mailing list just visit our site for details. To be honest with you there is no book that I know of that explains my post processing techniques, as I have just taken bits and pieces from many masters and created the workflow for me. I do hope to write something in the future I made a few changes to the jpeg file. First off, desaturated the blues. Second added more density to the rocks to just cover up the halo created by the S/H filter. Then finally converted from ProPhotoRGB to sRGB. Attachment 25861 Shoot these kind of images in RAW and you will have the files to work on when you find time to work on your post processing skills. In the mean time if you need jpegs for emailing and general use, convert the RAW to jpeg through the Tools feature in Bridge, or LR has the same actions available. Cheers

Yes I see what you are saying. To be honest I have not been converting the color space and had not realized it was needed until you mentioned it just now. Thank you very much for that piece of advice. I really like the density you added to the rocks and the overall scene is better for it. I really think some of my newer work is much better and the PP is more subtle. One of the reasons I posted this one is I knew there would be some things I could learn from your critique. Once again I appreciate very much your help and I think it is great that you are doing this.

Ok, this is very cool!

It is quite nice that you waited for the fog or mist to clear from the tree, revealing it to add depth, scale and color to this virtually monochromatic image.

The only problem I see with this image is that the composition is split in two a bit. There is the waterfall and then there is the tree Not quite sure what is the subject. I could see darkening part of this image thus playing up the lighter part, what ever part you wish
I believe This will help alleviate the split composition as well.

I would try darkening the area around the tree, making it a second read to the powerful water. This will also keep the image from becoming top heavy, by darkening the waterfall.

Is this what you were thinking, when I darken the tree it removes the fog so I tried to do it subtly. Darkening the waterfall really helps clarify it. I also processed the image as a bw that I think helps address the issues you mentioned as well.


Ok, this is very cool!

It is quite nice that you waited for the fog or mist to clear from the tree, revealing it to add depth, scale and color to this virtually monochromatic image.

The only problem I see with this image is that the composition is split in two a bit. There is the waterfall and then there is the tree Not quite sure what is the subject. I could see darkening part of this image thus playing up the lighter part, what ever part you wish
I believe This will help alleviate the split composition as well.

I would try darkening the area around the tree, making it a second read to the powerful water. This will also keep the image from becoming top heavy, by darkening the waterfall.[/QUOTE]

This is an interesting one!

First, I really dont believe it makes as good a black and white as color.
Second, I have worked the file in two ways. One the first version with a darker bottom, which is what at first I believed would help. However, after seeing your rendition and attempting myself, believe it look better with a dark top.




What makes it more interesting with a darker top is scale. With the heavy top, the waterfall comes forward making it visually taller which I like, thus making the tree smaller, and a second read. Well, a bit more of a second read.

Notice all the color and texture in the granite wall surrounding the waterfall. This appears when the file is darkened by dragging a curve down in a curves adj layer with a gradated mask. I did not saturate the colors!

Great image and I am glad you posted both of your renditions, as it really helps to make the final decisions about a tricky image

Thank you for your help on this image, opinion on the BW, and helping me see my image in a new (and improved) way with one tweak. I'm working on a series of similar images that i'll apply the same technique to.

Pathfinder





This image works well because of the people.

Imagine though if they were not there?


For this reason, I would like to see more branches breaking up the shadowed section of the cliff filling in the less interesting wall with detail. Had you had time, a hand held split ND filter in the vertical position would have worked well, something to consider. If no filter than, I am guessing you were hand held? but still if you are quick you can shoot another exposure two stops under for the water. Even though, the shots wont line up perfectly all that matters is lining up the bright section of the interior of the waterfall, something you could do by simple dragging a selection of the image over the other. I know I know, more PS

Now for the good news,
I do like this image and appreciate that you found this composition while several elements were converging and you were probably tired from the long hike in. The light was changing fast, the people were walking around and the exposure is a bugger considering the high contrast. It appears that the timing was critical being that the people were in "the edge of the light". They split up the shadow lines and hold nice diffused light on their bodies, a small but important detail. I also like that the top of the waterfall is not visible, making it appear taller



Finally, what I appreciate most about the image is the size of the people to the waterfall. Great image with wonderful scale and interest.

Originally Posted by Marc Muench Pathfinder This image works well because of the people. Imagine though if they were not there?

Without the people, this image would not see the light of day.

I had taken my tripod down, due to the failing light, as the shadow moved across the water from left to right, and was turning to leave, when I saw the two folks standing in the rim light. I knew that was the shot I had been looking for all morning, IF I could capture it before they moved out of the rim light. I literally had less than 30 seconds to set my tripod back up and shoot one frame! One frame!

I know the negative dark area in the upper left, is a problem, and have tried it lighter and darker ( I have enough detail in the RAW that I can lighten that area or do a screen blend if necessary ) but I prefer it as it is - not black, but not much brighter either. I could certainly be wrong about this, and am most interested in listening to your opinion.

For this reason, I would like to see more branches breaking up the shadowed section of the cliff filling in the less interesting wall with detail. Had you had time, a hand held split ND filter in the vertical position would have worked well, something to consider. If no filter than, I am guessing you were hand held? but still if you are quick you can shoot another exposure two stops under for the water. Even though, the shots wont line up perfectly all that matters is lining up the bright section of the interior of the waterfall, something you could do by simple dragging a selection of the image over the other. I know I know, more PS Now for the good news, I do like this image and appreciate that you found this composition while several elements were converging and you were probably tired from the long hike in. The light was changing fast, the people were walking around and the exposure is a bugger considering the high contrast. It appears that the timing was critical being that the people were in "the edge of the light". They split up the shadow lines and hold nice diffused light on their bodies, a small but important detail. I also like that the top of the waterfall is not visible, making it appear taller Finally, what I appreciate most about the image is the size of the people to the waterfall. Great image with wonderful scale and interest.

Thank you Marc, and that was my thought immediately when I saw them standing in the rim light. Not in the sunlight, and not in the shadow, but perfectly rim lit. That bright spot in the shadow helped balance the image, and the people gave scale to the waterfall. I learned it from you!


Oh, I was not tired either, Kathy and I had a great time that day. We hiked 3 more miles out, and hiked several more miles after that before the day was over.

If memory serves me, this image is a composite of two renderings from the original RAW file in the waterfall.

Thanks again for commenting.

And that is a long SANDY 3 miles, well done

I guess the only way you could have improved this would be to have shot additional bracketed exposures just after the people left, but that is not necessary as the image still has enough detail in the shadow to add the interest.
So all in all, Good job, and yes, it is times like this that make photography so intrinsically beautiful. Capturing that single fleeting moment, when all the stars align

Aaron



This is a great example of a tangency becoming intrusive.

The composition is wonderful
The choice of aspect ratio is wonderful for the compostion
The light is right
The post processing is looking good

But the river running from the tip of the rock is a problem! Why is it a problem? I believe it draws my eye to it too soon. Furthermore there is an odd effect to the depth of the image because the colors of the river and the rocks are similar. It is as if the river is actually on the same plane as the rocks

I am thinking if you had moved to the right by several feet the river would protrude from the crack in the rocks and place it off center as well.

Any chance you shot one from a different position?

thanks Marc, very interesting to hear.
haha, i will do my best next time not to be associated to "tangency becoming intrusive"

im affraid i do not have another angle to this overlook. but im happy to report i will return to this place a few more times...

lession learned! that image was not thought-out more than 30 seconds, the previous few minutes before just 20 feet away, i was trying to make something happen with composition but it failed... so i moved quickly to this spot and shot off a pano as fast as i could....

then moved to the tree and got a few more shots...and then the show was over....

in-post i lightened up the deep canyon and river alot, so maybe i should go back to "as captured" in that section to allow separation and give it more depth?

thank you for your time, greatly appreciated.

oh, one more thing, the lower right corner bothers me. (and the watermark too)
i was thinking about replacing it somehow... or is it not as big of a deal to fret over?

Originally Posted by AaronNelson oh, one more thing, the lower right corner bothers me. (and the watermark too) i was thinking about replacing it somehow... or is it not as big of a deal to fret over?

I am not bothered by that corner, but I can imagine when you return if you move left it may help, as the river would protrude from a diff spot as well When I am composing panos in a hurry such as you were, I do take about 30 sec and stop the camera while in live view at every spot prior to shooting, make a mental note of what is being captured, building it together in my mind as much as possible. I am not saying I am some genius who has PT Gui running in my head but, what I am doing is spending just enough time viewing as much of the sections as possible.

Oh the light in this one is soooo nice though, I wish you such wild atmosphere the next time around

As for your name, I am not bothered by that and would encourage it whenever possible.

thank you Marc, i have learned.
now i must apply when under the gun!

i am very grateful for MU.

i hope this version is a little better, if not... no problem, i do plan a reshoot.
(i will just need to do another rain dance the night prior)


before


after

Aaron,

The new version has moved in the wrong direction I dont think the contrast helped. Now the canyon appears to be darker. Just remember, the sky should remain dark but the horizon area lighter than the FG, this will give you the depth. Try again and this time start from the first version. The mask to lighten the canyon should exclude the river, sky and FG rocks.

first


second


3rd try:
a. grad the sky dark to light (top to horizon).
b. removed lightening mask off FG, going natural expo on FG
c. lightend deep canyon with curve, (a mask over river)
d. masked river and inversed to just darken the river lightly with curve
e. brightend the horizon slightly for depth

just send me out to reshoot if i dont get it right this time...





thanks again Marc, i hope this was done better.

Ohhhh so close

You need to do one more. I think everything is looking real good, but....
split the diff between the way the FG was in the second version and the third and I think it will be done
This copyright is great.

thanks-a-million

now here is the image with the FG mask adjusted mid-piont between the two...





also, if i may,
due to Bay-Photo's 1/2 off sale this month im thinking of getting this one done on canvas...
their largest canvas wrap size is 30 x 60 inch.
(following is that crop,) my question is,... does this ratio ruin the composition in your opinion? or would you recommend that i dont crop and use that Santa Barbara guy? or even yet, not print this one and wait to reshoot avoiding the "tangency becoming intrusive" issue.?? (just PM me that opinion if you want)

Thanks!!!

Aaron

30 x 60

First of all, good job with the post work here The image is now refined, and I am enjoying it even with the tangency I like it better in its full aspect ratio. Cant you have it printed slightly smaller to keep that format?

Tip - If I were printing this on canvas, even with the very best canvas printers in the world, I would add a bit of contrast too make up for what is lost going to that medium.