new to wedding photograph....

nicki2414 · January 9, 2009

Hi there I am new to the forum and to wedding photography. For the past year I have slowly been trying to develop myself into a photographer. I have done two wedding and have loved the challenge. (I have actually only done two receptions. Both brides were friends or family that asked me to do the reception.) Through these two free jobs I have since booked 4 more weddings that are under contract. I am getting better at using my flashes, and I don't think I used them to the best of my ability at these weddings but these photos at least give you an idea of what I have taken so far. I am looking for any advice before I shoot another wedding. Feel free to critique, that is why i am putting them up here:D

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<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/34201721@N06/3181111987/" title="C80 by nicki2414, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3322/3181111987_6cdbd91680_b.jpg" width="845" height="1024" alt="C80" /></a>

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<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/34201721@N06/3181945132/" title="C57a by nicki2414, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3125/3181945132_70e5f34458_b.jpg" width="1024" height="827" alt="C57a" /></a>

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<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/34201721@N06/3181944946/" title="C53 by nicki2414, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3300/3181944946_57f610dd54.jpg" width="500" height="407" alt="C53" /></a>

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<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/34201721@N06/3181942776/" title="C27 by nicki2414, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3390/3181942776_70343bc436.jpg" width="311" height="500" alt="C27" /></a>

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<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/34201721@N06/3181942588/" title="C26 by nicki2414, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3337/3181942588_d3ee3ea743_b.jpg" width="685" height="1024" alt="C26" /></a>

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<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/34201721@N06/3181108389/" title="C110 by nicki2414, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3416/3181108389_2b998d60cf_b.jpg" width="685" height="1024" alt="C110" /></a>

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<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/34201721@N06/3181941288/" title="DSC_0233 2 by nicki2414, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3430/3181941288_4f01750ccd_b.jpg" width="747" height="1024" alt="DSC_0233 2" /></a>

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<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/34201721@N06/3181107071/" title="DSC_0080 by nicki2414, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3442/3181107071_e925ebf2eb_b.jpg" width="1024" height="685" alt="DSC_0080" /></a>

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<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/34201721@N06/3181939778/" title="DSC_0006 2 by nicki2414, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3316/3181939778_cc870a5e35_b.jpg" width="1015" height="1024" alt="DSC_0006 2" /></a>

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<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/34201721@N06/3181105843/" title="ring and lic by nicki2414, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3109/3181105843_6e83e4804f_b.jpg" width="887" height="1024" alt="ring and lic" /></a>

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<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/34201721@N06/3181939376/" title="DSC_0319 by nicki2414, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3464/3181939376_b82690d854_b.jpg" width="622" height="1024" alt="DSC_0319" /></a>

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<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/34201721@N06/3181938682/" title="DSC_0051 by nicki2414, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3099/3181938682_18916268d6_b.jpg" width="1024" height="685" alt="DSC_0051" /></a>

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<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/34201721@N06/3181103599/" title="brandon garder by nicki2414, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3129/3181103599_778093f582_b.jpg" width="572" height="1024" alt="brandon garder" /></a>

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<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/34201721@N06/3181937104/" title="black and white cheers by nicki2414, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3496/3181937104_f363821687_b.jpg" width="1024" height="456" alt="black and white cheers" /></a>

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<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/34201721@N06/3181968766/" title="discoball by nicki2414, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3392/3181968766_7ec96c72d2_b.jpg" width="1024" height="685" alt="discoball" /></a>

Scotto · January 9, 2009

Hi Nicki, welcome to DGrin. I'm pretty new around here and I have to say it's a nice friendly place to be

You need to be careful what direction you are firing the flash. Most of the photographs look like you have fired the flash directly towards the subject which creates a very harsh shadow. Looking at the venue you could have bounced the flash off the ceiling which would have defused the light output.

Without letting us know what equipment you are using this is difficult as we don't even know if your flash head is directional.

Here's one of mine taken with flashed using the method mentioned above.

Also, consider your focal length on focal point. On some of the shots it looks like they were taken at a very short distance (possibly 20mm), doing this will distort facial features and does not create a natural look. Also make sure that your focus points are on peoples faces, I noticed on #13 the hands are in focus but the face is not, so focus points and aperture need to be addressed.

Hope you don't mind the critique

Scott

nicki2414 · January 9, 2009

Thanks alot...

As much as I looked at those photo's I don't think I ever realized the focal point on 13... and that is something I really analyze, because it is something I sometimes struggle with. (I am 5 foot tall so I am always standing on something to get the right focal points....lol)

I have been using a nikon d80 with a sigma 18-200mm is lens and a cannon xti with a ef-s 18-55mm is lens. I now have bounce flashes for both camera's but at the time I did not. I am still experimenting with the new flashes but have already realized the importance of the bounce flash.

I have bought both of these camera's within the past year so I went from a kodak easy share z712 is to these dslr's. It has been a big jump and I'm still learning new things everyday. I knew after the second wedding (which had horrible lighting) that I need to invest in some flash equipment.

I do feel like I'm doing SOMETHING right because the Bride and groom in both have recomended me to other people, I just don't want to be in over my head so I have been doing alot of research and I don't think I have had these cameras leave my neck in two months (so alot of practice...lol). I also work in a photo lab and my grandfather was an army photographer and he taught me how to develop all my own pictures "the old fashion way", but other than that i have taught myself "which can be a curse or a blessing...lol"

Basically I am trying to go from a person who take some good pictures to someone who stops people in thier tracks. I have only had people who know nothing about photography look at my photos since my grandfather passed away (he was my biggest fan and critic...lol) so I guess I am looking for some proffesional critisium.

I am also looking to see if I really have the EYE for this or should I stick to amatur and keep it as my hobby. I have a chance to start working with a pro in the area, but she does children's portrit photo's not weddings. I'm not going to give up that chance to learn but I'm no sure it will help me too much because I have been the one fixing her pictures for over a year (She develops everyhing at my photo lab).

Also, when using bounce flashes should I just keep it on the top of the camera or use it on a tripod? I have only been using it on the camera as of now. I have thought about using it on a tripod but being that I am by myself at the wedding (no assistant or second shooter avaliable as of yet...) I was worried about dragging around the tripod and missing shots because of it. What do you guys do?

Thanks for the critisism though. It is MUCH needed. I can only see sooo much and a second opinions are always welcome. AND KEEP IT COMING!!!

p.s.
I also have a 2 year olds birthday pictures coming up this month. The mom doesn't want a traditional photo shoot. Any ideas of where I can take a 2 year old in the winter in Ohio? I love doing it outdoors at the local lake and might go there for one or two but its too cold to keep him outside that long.

jbakerphoto · January 9, 2009

Nicki welcome to dgrin.....
I really like #1. Too bad the girl in the red dress didnt catch it.....She has some hops....

I have never shot a wedding and am not a pro yet. So take it with a grain of salt. I alway say I will figure it out one of these days....maybe....

...

You definitly need to decide on the system you want to shoot and buy into only one system. Either use all nikon or all canon gear because if something fails its all interchangeable. And from what I hear Murphy likes to attend weddings. Also, this is definitly not a requirement just a suggestion, you might be able to trade both your camera bodies for like 2 canon 20 or 30d's and you will have more capabilities that would be helpful during a wedding...The prices on these camara bodies are about the same as what you have now....The other suggestion would be to invest in fast glass with a aperature of 2.8 or lower....Wedding venues are crazy and really dark places so this will help allow more light in your photos and faster focus and help you produce a better end product....

Well i am sure the actual wedding photogs will chime in pretty quickly so that is all for now. Just shoot shoot and shoot some more.

Update: Looks like I am doing a wedding as a second on 4-18-09. Looks like I have some shooting and preparing to do as well.....

nicki2414 · January 9, 2009

Thanks you unclejon

I think number one is my fav too. That wedding was so much fun. It was my cousin's and some of the pictures got kind of wild because they would do whatever I told them to do (that one the maid of honor just did though).

After I do a couple of more wedding I am planning on investing in some more equipment and I am going to be staying with canon. I love the nikon but canon just seems to be the right choice for me. I do a lot sports shots too. I played all the way through college (softball) on scholarship and the canon seems to work alot better for the speed and action shots.

I know this is a wedding form but I figured I would share some others that I have done. Alot of these were actually taken with my kodak z712is so it was alot more challenging.

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Scott_Quier · January 9, 2009

I'm not a sports photog so I don't know gravel from gravy about .... but .... I think you certainly have a eye for getting the shot at the right instant. These are simply wonderful - I guess that's how you got the first shot in your first post as well - timing is everything!!!

nicki2414 · January 9, 2009

Thanks Scott,
I love doing sports. Its very fun to try to get just the right angle. I am alot better at them then weddings and that is why I think I enjoyed the two I have done. It was a real challenge and I want to get better.

Any things you see in the photos that I could improve on?

jbakerphoto · January 9, 2009

Yea I agree the sports pics are rather good! I shot HS football this last season and I just about pulled out my hair trying to get shots that looked like they where taken 2 feet away (Filling the frame) with faces and action. Good Job!!!

nicki2414 · January 9, 2009

It really helps if you know the coaches and officials... since I have played for so long I can push the boundaries of the field since they all know me. That helps a lot. Plus I just ask before a game and tell them that they can view them on my website or something like that. That way they always agree.:D

Shima · January 9, 2009

Welcome to dgrin! I think you have a great eye and I won't be repetitive with what others have said, so to add to the suggestions for the future, I would toss in the idea that you should consider getting a diffuser for your flashes. This will soften the harsh shadows you experience in several shots and allow the lighting to more evenly fall on your subjects. I'm looking forward to seeing more of your work. Dgrin is a great place to learn, I've been here since 2005 and have learned so much since then and continue to learn all the time from everyone on here!

Scott_Quier · January 9, 2009

nicki2414 wrote:

Thanks Scott,
I love doing sports. Its very fun to try to get just the right angle. I am alot better at them then weddings and that is why I think I enjoyed the two I have done. It was a real challenge and I want to get better.

Any things you see in the photos that I could improve on?

I only have a couple or three thoughts:

If you are going to use a flash, get it off the camera with a bracket. Some of your shots show that the flash was on the camera and when you rotated the camera, you got the "nice" side-shadows - not a goodness.
As suggested by Shima, get some sort of flash diffuser. Take a look at suggestions made by Ziggy in this post. I am partial to the Better Bounce Card. At any rate, learn how to bounce the flash off something to get a better light on your subjects.
Concentrate on emotion - the love of the B&G for each other, the tears from the mother of the bride (if it happens), the tears from the bride during the toasts. That sort of thing.

You seem to have a good eye for composition and for getting the shots to tell the story.

Aside from the above, if you haven't done so already ... read some of the information in the "resources" sticky in this forum.

jbakerphoto · January 9, 2009

I'll second Shima on the flash diffuser. You can even make one for under 2 bucks....Goto http://www.abetterbouncecard.com/

I started cutting slits on mine toward the top so I can scoop it a bit and throw a little more light forward.....

There are others as well but i dont have the website for them....

edit: Looks like scott beat me to it!!

nicki2414 · January 9, 2009

thanks, I will defiantly be putting it on my list. I have also seen them for your pop up flash. Has anyone ever used one? I was thinking it might be nice for around the house shots when I don't want to grab all my gear just to take a couple pictures of my daughter. I have seen them pretty cheap on ebay.

nicki2414 · January 9, 2009

Actually, what would be your recommendations on a good flash for my canon xti. I really don't like the very cheap one I have. (it was given to me for that camera...)

Maybe a good cheaper one and then a more expensive one. Is there any other than the canon models that would work?

Also, what is you recommendations on a good all purpose lens for that camera?

I have been doing some research on both items but I haven't decided what I want. Maybe some input from you guys would help.

Thanks again for all you help.

Scott_Quier · January 9, 2009

nicki2414 wrote:

Actually, what would be your recommendations on a good flash for my canon xti. I really don't like the very cheap one I have. (it was given to me for that camera...)

Maybe a good cheaper one and then a more expensive one. Is there any other than the canon models that would work?

Also, what is you recommendations on a good all purpose lens for that camera?

I have been doing some research on both items but I haven't decided what I want. Maybe some input from you guys would help.

Thanks again for all you help.

Flash: Opinions vary on this. Ziggy likes and often recommends the Sigma 550 (I think that's the current model number). The interface is a littel cumbersome and the build quality isn't top shelf, but you get good power for the price. I like the 580EX II - it's a bit (OK, a lot) more expensive, but the build quality is there and there's a bit more power which can sometimes make the difference. For off-camera flash, go with the cheap manual flash units - do a search here, ziggy has made some recommendations to this effect.

For a lens, the words good and all-purpose are somewhat mutually exclusive. But, there a few that come close: Canon EF-S 17-55 f/2.8, the Tamron 17-50. I think Sigma has one as well. There's also the Tamron 28-75 f/2.8. A cheaper alternative, though not recommended for weddings, might be the Canon EF-S 18-55 IS ... some have said that this lens is pretty good bang for the buck. My favorite is the EF-S 17-55 f/2.8 IS, followed by the Tamron 28-75 f/2.8.

Qarik · January 9, 2009

all those bounce cards are cheap and useful but here is where the fong light sphere is better: with the scoop bounce cards, when you turn the camera vertical..you have no choice but to bounce sideways..except if you have a flash bracket ($$). With the fong you can still bounce of the ceiling in either orientation of your camera.

Plus I think the fong is a bit more durable and a touch more professional looking heh:D

mdphotographymiami · January 9, 2009

Very good
I think youare doing very good

JohnBiggs · January 12, 2009

For a flash, I second the Canon 580 EX II. You can find for $380 pretty easily. For a lens I prefer the Tamron 28-75mm 2.8, its a real gem at it's low price.

I personally would brighten up the exposure on those in pp.

Also I recommend the Joe Demb Flip-It. You can use it if you don't have a bracket by swiviling the head. It also is flexible to fit your existing flash now, and still fit your new flash. Many other solutions are made for a specific flash only.

In fact the Flip-it would be the first thing you should buy. It's cheap ($30), and flexible to work with you in the future.

Art Scott · January 12, 2009

You seem to have a very good eye.....I will second what Scott Q. has said.......and yes a flash bracket is a little more $ but it is actually a very valuable accessory....make sure it is a camera rotator and NOT a flash rotator...........as for diffusers....I do not care for the fong style as they will only fit ONE specific flash.....I have both shoe mount flashes and large handle mount flashes and love my Lumiquest Softbox because I can use it on any flash I can wrap the velco/rubber strap around the head of.......it is light weight and folds to fit in my gear bags easily.

It was mentioned above......buy into 1 system...decide which brand you prefer and stick with it......it will make your life much less stressful..........

nicki2414 · January 12, 2009

wow, thanks to everyone for the great info. You have given me a LOT to think about.

I believe I will be purchasing a new flash and diffuser very soon!:D

Now to just decided what!!!! hahaha

FedererPhoto · January 13, 2009

nicki2414 wrote:

wow, thanks to everyone for the great info. You have given me a LOT to think about.

I believe I will be purchasing a new flash and diffuser very soon!:D

Now to just decided what!!!! hahaha

For a dissenting opinion... Simply get that flash off-camera (and by off-camera, I mean OFF camera - as in, at least a few feet off camera, and preferably a few dozen feet.)
Remote flash is sooo much more dynamic and will really help separate your image from what uncle Joe does when he bounces his flash off the ceiling (which is what you can do when your remote isn't available).

For example, for a reception, I generally have 2 SB800's on 2 stands pointed at the dance floor. I control these from an on-camera SB900. Remotes kick up the light when on dance floor with the SB900 being a commander. When I leave the proximity of my remotes, I can use the on-camera flash and bouce (or, in a pinch, direct) or go all-ambient. All within a second or two. Works fabulously all around... (though buying multiple lights, stands, dealing with placement and the knowledge to make it all work is a bit harder than simply 'bouncing off the ceiling')

tinfish · January 19, 2009

Nicki, I have to say I believe you do have a good eye and believe the harshness of the flash does take away from your photos. Off camera is great, but not always ideal. I would experiment with bouncing your flash. With the flash mounted on the camera or a bracket you will still have all the mobility to follow the action. And in a room like that with fairly low white (tile) ceiling it is actually quite ideal for bouncing your flash. I would go a step further and experiment with balancing your flash with your ambient a bit. If the ambient light in the room permits, turn down your flash output just a little so it does not totally overpower the ambient light in the room. Then experiment at aiming your flash at the ceiling or to the side at a wall. Like a pool player you need visualize where the light will end up after the bounce. Not really too precise unless you are attempting to hit someone across a room. I am just saying it is a great tool that with a little bit of practice can really help you out in the right situations. I have inserted an image to kind of show what I am talking about. It is not the greatest shot ever, but you can kind of get the idea. Anyway, welcome and good luck.

Oh yeah, like several others have mentioned. You are really going to need some faster lenses. Churches are notoriously dark and flash is not always welcome.

nicki2414 · January 25, 2009

ok just to update....

I did some research and ended up with a speedlite 430ex and a gary fong.

At the time it is a major upgrade but still within my budget.

Now I am looking for a flash bracket. I would like to stay around 100.00. SO... basically any suggestions for me?

Thanks again guys!
Nicki

new to wedding photograph....

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