One flash, two sides

divamum · January 28, 2009

So here's the idea: I want to use my strobe 3/4 behind the subject for some dramatic side/back lighting (so far so good). However, I only have ONE flash... and I'd also like some catchlights in the subjects eyes.

I've been trying to position a mirror throw some catchlights, but if I angle it to see the flash, then it doesn't reflect into the eyes.

Any tricks for making one flash behave as two? Or, alternatively, anything that can be used just to throw some catchlights without necessarily adding too much front light to mess with the effect?

Thanks!

Travis · January 28, 2009

Experiment with placing a large piece of white foamcore board at varying distances from the shadow side of the face. At the right distance, you should still be able to get your catchlights without too much lightening of the shadow area. You may need to use some black foamcore or fabric to create a gobo to block/absorb the reflected light.

divamum · January 28, 2009

Travis wrote:

Experiment with placing a large piece of white foamcore board at varying distances from the shadow side of the face. At the right distance, you should still be able to get your catchlights without too much lightening of the shadow area. You may need to use some black foamcore or fabric to create a gobo to block/absorb the reflected light.

Alas, no go. It's filling in nicely, but no catchlights in the eyes, just general soft shadow-filling. Maybe I'm tilting wrong, dunno, but so far, no luck on that. Thanks for the suggestion though!

pathfinder · January 28, 2009

Use the built in flash on your camera for the fill and catch lights perhaps?

Trigger the main flash behind and off center with your ST-E2

I just tried this suggestion - you cannot mount the ST-E2 and have the pop up flash work at all. I need to try things before suggesting I guess

aj986s · January 28, 2009

Have you considered using some sort of regular flashlight/penlight? Would need to angle the beam off the subject, or insure the mainlight overpowers the beam. Some latemodel LED flashlights through a soft beam, but appear quite bright when you look directly into them. The AA maglights allow you to remove the lens hood and use the light as a "candle"; the light provided would be relatively soft and widespread, but the point of light at the bulb might create a catchlight.

divamum · January 28, 2009

pathfinder wrote:

Use the built in flash on your camera for the fill and catch lights perhaps?

Trigger the main flash behind and off center with your ST-E2

Sorry, should have been clearer: off camera flash behind (and slightly to the side) IS being triggered by the STE2, thus I have no fill from the front when I do things that way....

Have i mentioned how much I want a 2nd strobe?!?!?!

divamum · January 28, 2009

aj986s wrote:

Have you considered using some sort of regular flashlight/penlight? Would need to angle the beam off the subject, or insure the mainlight overpowers the beam. Some latemodel LED flashlights through a soft beam, but appear quite bright when you look directly into them. The AA maglights allow you to remove the lens hood and use the light as a "candle"; the light provided would be relatively soft and widespread, but the point of light at the bulb might create a catchlight.

Hmmm... might be possible. Then again, these are usually self-portraits (unless I can persuade the child to endure another session) so not sure I'd have enough control over that....

But thanks for the suggestion!

I did play around with one of my clip lamps in front and it was ok, but it added too much light, really. Catchlights were ok, but it acted as more complete fill than I wanted.

Ah well. This may be one of those things for which there isn't an easy DIY fix, but I figured there was no harm in asking! Keep those suggestions coming - I'm all ears

rwells · January 28, 2009

divamum wrote:

So here's the idea: I want to use my strobe 3/4 behind the subject for some dramatic side/back lighting (so far so good). However, I only have ONE flash... and I'd also like some catchlights in the subjects eyes.

I've been trying to position a mirror throw some catchlights, but if I angle it to see the flash, then it doesn't reflect into the eyes.

Any tricks for making one flash behave as two? Or, alternatively, anything that can be used just to throw some catchlights without necessarily adding too much front light to mess with the effect?

Thanks!

Why not just ad them in - in PS? Catchlights are easy...

darkdragon · January 28, 2009

rwells wrote:

Why not just ad them in - in PS? Catchlights are easy...

I agree, that is just what I was thinking.

pathfinder · January 28, 2009

Find a small electronic flash for digital point and shoot cameras with a built in optical triggered sensor - a digital slave flash -- it will sense the 430ex behind your subject flashing, and will fire into your subject's face for the catchlights you want. You can modify this flash with a diffuser or your home made softbox or whatever, since all you want are the catchlights.

Here is one from B&H for $29.95 Not powerful ( but you can place it as close as needed and it is cheap)

Here is a better one, but as expected, not as cheap at $49.95

Google 'digital slave flash' and several pop up. They are not great flashes, but will add the catchlights you are wanting, or a little fill even.

Here is a little flat panel flash I find useful for macro - it has a built in optical sensor too, and will alsooperate via a pc cord from your camera. SO, you can fire your ST-E2 via the hot shoe, and the FP38 flat panel flash with either the optical sensor, or via a pc cord from your camera. The FP38 will give a larger, rectangular catchlight like a large softbox. I have two of these and find them reliable and useful from time to time. $59 bucks from B&H

The reason I have two is that they can be gangmounted and used together, doubling the guide number from 38 to 76

divamum · January 28, 2009

rwells wrote:

Why not just ad them in - in PS? Catchlights are easy...

Now why didn't I think of that????!!!???

That really is the obvious answer. DDDDUUUUUUHHHHHH!!!!

divamum · January 28, 2009

pathfinder wrote:

Find a small electronic flash for digital point and shoot cameras with a built in optical triggered sensor - a digital slave flash -- it will sense the 430ex behind your subject flashing, and will fire into your subject's face for the catchlights you want. You can modify this flash with a diffuser or your home made softbox or whatever, since all you want are the catchlights.

Here is one from B&H for $29.95 Not powerful ( but you can place it as close as needed and it is cheap)

Here is a better one, but as expected, not as cheap at $49.95

Google 'digital slave flash' and several pop up. They are not great flashes, but will add the catchlights you are wanting, or a little fill even.

Here is a little flat panel flash I find useful for macro - it has a built in optical sensor too, and will alsooperate via a pc cord from your camera. SO, you can fire your ST-E2 via the hot shoe, and the FP38 flat panel flash with either the optical sensor, or via a pc cord from your camera. The FP38 will give a larger, rectangular catchlight like a large softbox. I have two of these and find them reliable and useful from time to time. $59 bucks from B&H

The reason I have two is that they can be gangmounted and used together, doubling the guide number from 38 to 76

Ok, it's official. There is no photographic brick wall I hit that dgrinners can't fix (or show me how to fix)

bow

While I can, as rwells so rightly points out

, solve the catchlights problem with 30seconds in photoshop, a 2nd flash - even a dinky one - would be REALLY USEFUL - I'm getting so tired of trying to do everything with one strobe, delightful though it is to have it off camera

This could be most helpful....

You've also now got me thinking about trying one more time to find an optical slave that will work with my (old and rather pathetic) Miranda C-AF 32 flash from my EOS film days. I won't let it touch the xsi's hotshoe (and it's a pretty lousy automatic flash to begin with) but if I could just find an optical slave that would trigger it, it could be useful. Last time I tried an optical slave it didn't fire it, but I think it was simply the wrong "flavour" of slave trigger - I wonder what might work? Hmm... maybe time to try one of the cheapie ebay optical slave units.......

Thoughts?

Y'all have got me thinking now.....

ziggy53 · January 28, 2009

Painting in catch lights is probably the best way to go and I do that sometimes, especially when one eye is showing more catch light than the other. Just find a previous image with the catch lights in a position that suits your purpose and use that as a visual guide for positioning the painted version. I generally use a feathered round brush for best effect.

You could use a daylight compact fluorescent bulb in a cheap aluminum reflector and some diffusion material on the front to create an inexpensive realistic catch light. You would balance the lights by varying the flash output and overall exposure.

You can divert some of the electronic flash using a mirror attached to the flash and divert that to another mirror or white board. (Very tricky to get the angles just right and to get it to hold together.)

You can take one exposure with the flash in one position just for the eyes and catch lights and then a second image with the light in the normal position. Then cut the eyes from the first image and composite onto the second image.

ziggy53 · January 28, 2009

divamum wrote:

...
You've also now got me thinking about trying one more time to find an optical slave that will work with my (old and rather pathetic) Miranda C-AF 32 flash from my EOS film days. I won't let it touch the xsi's hotshoe (and it's a pretty lousy automatic flash to begin with) but if I could just find an optical slave that would trigger it, it could be useful. Last time I tried an optical slave from the hotshoe of the XT it didn't fire it, but I think it was simply the wrong "flavour" of slave trigger - I wonder what might work? Hmm... maybe time to try one of the cheapie ebay optical slave units....... Thoughts?

Y'all have got me thinking now.....

I can vouch for the following Sunpack slave unit. It's fairly cheap and I've used it with both a Fuji P&S and Canon dSLR and it works well with most preflash. It has several delay settings as well as no delay/instant. It also has a standard 1/4" threaded hole in the bottom of the bracket screw so you can add a wingnut to the bracket to use off camera.

It will not handle a very heavy flash and only a hot-shoe slash will mount, but it's handy enough I often carry it with me and use it for light reenforcement or background light.

http://www.adorama.com/SUDCFA.html?searchinfo=sunpak%20digital%20slave&item_no=2

ziggy53 · January 28, 2009

ziggy53 wrote:

I can vouch for the following Sunpack slave unit. It's fairly cheap and I've used it with both a Fuji P&S and Canon dSLR and it works well with most preflash. It has several delay settings as well as no delay/instant. It also has a standard 1/4" threaded hole in the bottom of the bracket screw so you can add a wingnut to the bracket to use off camera.

It will not handle a very heavy flash and only a hot-shoe slash will mount, but it's handy enough I often carry it with me and use it for light reenforcement or background light.

http://www.adorama.com/SUDCFA.html?searchinfo=sunpak%20digital%20slave&item_no=2

Here is an example I just shot. The Sunpak slave unit is holding a Sunpak 383 Super flash (seemed appropriate) and is triggered from a Sigma EF 500 DG Super E-TTL II flash on a Canon 40D camera as master.

The Sunpak slaved flash is showing the "auto OK" light and it illuminated the wall behind. The Sunpak slave bracket screw is clamped with a wingnut and the bracket screw is attached to a cheap tripod. You can see that I chose position 3 of the Sunpak slave to properly sync to the Sigma master flash at 1/250th.

divamum · January 28, 2009

Whooooaaa... y'all are amazing! This could keep me going for a little while longer ... I'd need to figure out how to modify the output on the old flash with diffusers and light blockers of some kind since it's totally automatic, buteven so - either of these choices could be a way of getting me a second light source on a dime. As soon as I find myself with a few pennies I can ::cough:: divert towards gear, then I'll be checking both of these options out.

Ziggy, what's your feeling on things like these?

Bleah. I'm all for saving money, but I hate having to be quite *this* penny pinching (essential just now, alas). I really just need a second flash and at some point will have to fund a 430 or 580 ex(II) flash (or even better, two of 'em

) but for right now I have no choice but to adopt the "make do and mend" approach, so I really appreciate these options about which I knew nothing before you mentioned them!

thumb

ziggy53 · January 28, 2009

divamum wrote:

...

Ziggy, what's your feeling on things like these?

...

I have no experience with those particular slaves but they look similar to other simple slaves I have seen.

They will not work with flashes that use E-TTL communications because those flashes use a "preflash" technique prior to the main flash which lights the image. This slave appears to fire only on the first flash, which would probably be the preflash.*

The Sunpak slave to which I referred appears to have a delay circuit which also senses the preflash, but the slave does not react immediately. Instead the Sunpak slave waits and then allows the slave to trigger the attached flash unit on a later flash pulse.

I can't guarantee that the Sunpak would work with the ST-E2 and 430EX but, of the units I have tried, it has the best overall adjustability and therefore, the best probability for success (again, of the units I have tested.)

*(There is a way to "trick" these simple slaves to work with E-TTL flashes. You basically need to use the FEL (Flash Exposure Lock). What happens is that when you press the FEL button the preflash and E-TTL communications take place, but not the main flash. The simple slave will resond to the preflash so you will now need to wait for the flash to cycle and charge. Now you are ready to take the actual exposure. This time there will be no preflash and the simple slave will respond to the main flash.

It does mean that the slave and slaved flash need to be activated twice for each image, but it gets around the limitations of the simple slave.)

JohnBiggs · January 29, 2009

Ok. Check out strobist if you are on a budget, but either way here are a few specific posts about 1 light acting as 2.

http://strobist.blogspot.com/2007/08/using-specular-reflections-as.html

http://strobist.blogspot.com/2007/08/lighting-102-umbrella-specular-portrait.html

http://strobist.blogspot.com/2007/08/lighting-102-specular-background.html

http://strobist.blogspot.com/2008/03/lighting-102-discussion-double-duty.html

John

One flash, two sides

Comments