Magazine Cover - thoughts?

Mike J · February 12, 2009

Here's a magazine cover I would like some feedback on. This is new territory for me. I'm fairly new to Photoshop but I couldn't find any templates that I liked for ski racing so I started done this path. Any suggestions? Each different cover would take a little customization so I'm wondering how to simplify.

From looking around, it seems that going prices are in the $15-$25 range for an 8x10 of something like this. Is this the right ballpark?

MDalby · February 12, 2009

Well, I am certainly no expert on PhotoShop or skiing but I am able to say what I like from a cover perspective and I LIKE!

I think this is fantastic! It has the real look and feel of a magazine cover and the shot is GREAT!

Mike J · February 12, 2009

MDalby wrote:

Well, I am certainly no expert on PhotoShop or skiing but I am able to say what I like from a cover perspective and I LIKE!

I think this is fantastic! It has the real look and feel of a magazine cover and the shot is GREAT!

Thanks for the feedback on the cover. This was definitely a learning curve for me. Ihave to say that the shot is the result of what I've read on this forum - eyes sell.

cj99si · February 12, 2009

I think its great! The only thing I would change would be the blue box, Maybe try and fade it so you can still see some of the image?

Mike J · February 12, 2009

cj99si wrote:

I think its great! The only thing I would change would be the blue box, Maybe try and fade it so you can still see some of the image?

Thanks for the feedback.
I was copying something I saw on my Bicycling magazine on this. I like your idea of trying to fade it (or get rid of it all together). I'll play with this tonight.

clcoronios · February 13, 2009

WOW! You've given me an idea...

I think you could lose the barcode without detriment.

You say you're 'fairly new to PS' - and I'm no expert, so you might be a lot better than I - but for what it's worth....
I'd set this concept up as a template - in LOTS & LOTS of layers. Then you will be able to customize each layer (background color, blocks of text, etc.) to fit the image used.

Great start - and thanks again for the idea!!! I hope you're charging for your time & expertise - something extra special like this should command an extra special price!!

Carol

Mike J · February 13, 2009

clcoronios wrote:

WOW! You've given me an idea...

Do share it with us when you are done!

I think you could lose the barcode without detriment.

I tend to agree with you but every kid that has looked at these has commented on the barcod and how did you do that?

I'd set this concept up as a template - in LOTS & LOTS of layers. Then you will be able to customize each layer (background color, blocks of text, etc.) to fit the image used.

I did end up with a template of sorts... I can't just drop a photo in but I've got it done to about 3-4 minutes to customize. There are different layers for every element so it is easy to adjust text, color, and positioning.

The basic use is to drop in the photo of choice and resize/postition it as desired. I then work on bringing any part of the photo to the front of the title and then customize the text.

The really cool thing is that I've shown it to the director of the ski team my kids are on and he as agreed to post an ad on their website letting people know about this. This could end up being my first paying job so I'm pretty excited about that. Now I just need to figure out what to charge for this...

clcoronios · February 13, 2009

Mike, I don't do team sport stuff - but I've seen some of those prices and they make me cringe. This is a pretty special piece and you've spent a lot of time on it.

We just picked up a couple of figure skating gigs. They were a referral from a horse show customer whose daughter also skates - so she knew my pricing, but the first thing I did was go over pricing - because if they were going to have a problem with it, there wasn't really any need to go further. They didn't, so we did - and I'm looking forward to doing their competition next month - and hopefully picking up some more area clubs for next year.

At any rate - - I am offering an 11x14 "border print" for $45. And that's CHEAP. Finished product will be 11x14, image used will be approximately 8x10 or 12, placed with top and side border narrower than bottom. On the bottom will be the name of the competition, the date and the skater's name. After post-processing the image (HOPEFULLY, with all arena lights on for the competition, there won't need to be extraordinary work to do), it'll take me a couple of minutes to set it up in the border template.

Others in my usual venue (horse shows) charge half again or double what I'm charging. DON'T shortchange yourself! On the other hand, if others are doing this sort of thing in your area (geographic) and charging $5 - you might not make many sales if you charged $40 or $50. Only you know that info.... But you magazine cover is a LOT more personalized and a LOT more work than a border print and you deserve to be paid accordingly.

I take it from your "I might get paid!" that you are just entering the realm of professional photography. When you have a fulltime job/career and are starting out taking photos on the side, it's easy to think "this is just spending money - I enjoy doing it, so if I cover costs, that's enough". But consider the message that you're sending. Your customers see you as a professional photographer - so when the real thing (the person who depends on selling his/her images to support the family, the person who has spent 30 years and as many thousand dollars on equipment) comes along with THEIR pricing, the folks you've spoiled are going to say "But Mike did it for $5!!! Your prices are OUTRAGEOUS!!!" And that makes life difficult for all of us. You, too - because when you decide to raise your prices to "reasonable", they'll squawk at that, too!

Sorry - don't mean to lecture.

Carol

Mike J · February 13, 2009

Carol,

Thanks for your valuable words - in no way do I consider them a lecture but rather an education. Having run a business previously, I understand the value of paying for time and making a profit. I've been doing a lot of research on the web and scoping at local prices... I'm thinking I'm getting a handle on it. Good news is there are not a lot of "pros" doing ski racing - plenty of parents (of which I'm one).

Philosophy question for you and others: do you sell digital downloads? I know opinions are all over the map on this one.

clcoronios · February 14, 2009

Mike, you're dead on - sale of digital downloads is a loaded question. (yeah, that was intended)

There are two primary schools of thought:
1. "No way Jose. Not now, not never." Many of the vocalists for this view said the same thing about digital photography.
2. "Well, maybe - if it can be a win-win situation." This one has subdivisions. Digital use is so popular now that offering it can make the difference between selling an image and having it take up space on your hard drive.
a. Include a personal use only webfile (600p wide side at 72 dpi) - with the purchase of a print (usually 8x10)
b. Offer a personal use only image sized for web (mine is the same price as my 8x10). You could create different packages - say 5 or 10 images, - at a lesser price per image. Electronic delivery.
c. Offer a CD package that includes two files for one image - one sized for web and one sized for print (your choice of size on this - mine are sized for 5x7 at 200 dpi. USPS delivery.

An important thing to remember is to ALWAYS include your signature/copyright and stipulate that any usage MUST retain this.

Many of us equine photogs offer various commercial usage licenses also - and those vary from selling your own horse on a personal website or a flyer to ads in a regional/national publication to stallion service or facility marketing to selling to a corporation for their advertising purposes. Most all would exclude stock image sales, the photographer retaining those. Right now, none of these would apply to what I'm perceiving to be your market - ski team members/families.

One thing: don't forget to get releases so YOU can use these images for your marketing - or for stock image sales or art prints. This is ESPECIALLY important for kids.

Best of luck - and keep asking questions.

Carol

Stephaniespix · February 14, 2009

Beautiful Mike, I really like it, agree about the blue box.

Stephanie

Mike J · February 15, 2009

clcoronios wrote:

Mike, you're dead on - sale of digital downloads is a loaded question. (yeah, that was intended)

There are two primary schools of thought:
1. "No way Jose. Not now, not never." Many of the vocalists for this view said the same thing about digital photography.
2. "Well, maybe - if it can be a win-win situation." This one has subdivisions. Digital use is so popular now that offering it can make the difference between selling an image and having it take up space on your hard drive.

a. Include a personal use only webfile (600p wide side at 72 dpi) - with the purchase of a print (usually 8x10)
b. Offer a personal use only image sized for web (mine is the same price as my 8x10). You could create different packages - say 5 or 10 images, - at a lesser price per image. Electronic delivery.
c. Offer a CD package that includes two files for one image - one sized for web and one sized for print (your choice of size on this - mine are sized for 5x7 at 200 dpi. USPS delivery.

I definitely would put myself into the latter camp. These are some nice options you layed out here. I take it from the lack of a hi-resolution digital offering suggestion that you do not offer this? Is it safe to infer that a digital version sized for a 5x7 print is the most resolution that you offer?

One thing: don't forget to get releases so YOU can use these images for your marketing - or for stock image sales or art prints. This is ESPECIALLY important for kids.

Thanks. This is not something that I've considered before - the marketing aspect of it. Can you use a photo on your website for the purposes of marketing without a release? This would seem to imply that all photos of people in a gallery marked portfolio would need releases?

Mike J · February 15, 2009

Stephaniespix wrote:

Beautiful Mike, I really like it, agree about the blue box.

Stephanie

In subsequent versions, I've dropped the blue box. Here are the latest two samples:

#1

#2 In this next one (my son), I wanted to see what it would look like if there was not an all-snow background. I think it still works.

clcoronios · February 15, 2009

Mike J wrote:

I definitely would put myself into the latter camp. These are some nice options you layed out here. I take it from the lack of a hi-resolution digital offering suggestion that you do not offer this? Is it safe to infer that a digital version sized for a 5x7 print is the most resolution that you offer?

This is correct. However, an 8x10 could probably be printed from the 5x7 size. Also, that's all I 'offer' (on my price sheet). If a customer wants a larger digital file, that would come under private contract, which would include intended usage.

Thanks. This is not something that I've considered before - the marketing aspect of it. Can you use a photo on your website for the purposes of marketing without a release? This would seem to imply that all photos of people in a gallery marked portfolio would need releases?

I'm not an attorney - and this is an intricate area. Basically, my understanding is that you SHOULD have a model release for any image showing a recognizable person - although my understanding about editorial use isn't clear on this. For instance, if you take a picture of an outstanding moment at a sports event and send it/sell it to a newspaper. But ESPECIALLY FOR CHILDREN, I would not post a photo anywhere without a model release signed by parent/guardian. Again, my understanding is that using an image for your business website MIGHT be OK - but offering the image to the public wouldn't be. If you get into this realm, consult an attorney.

Requesting a model release is pretty easy and most folks don't have a problem with it. There are some VERY technical releases out there that are confusing and intimidating. Mine is very simple and straightforward. In return for signing, I give the customer a 5x7 of the shot I wish to use.

When I do a private shoot, I include a release statement in the contract, and anyone included in the photography must sign it (parent/guardian for under 18s).

Hope this helps. Please remember - I am NOT an attorney - these are just my practices and understandings of the law.

Carol

clcoronios · February 15, 2009

Mike - really like your two new samples!
C

b08rsa · February 15, 2009

Mike J...
I am not an " expert" in PS, but I would say that I am a "power user" with it. I use PS 7.0 and the more you expierment with it, the more you will love it. As you know by now, not only can you create "layers" to make the mag cover, try expiermenting with the filters to manipulate the picture as well.
Nice shots of the skiers too. I have done trading cards for my daughters soccer team in the past. Here is some of the work that I have done in PS.

Ron

mike_k · February 15, 2009

I like these - nice job! I agree with you about the barcode - while it's probably something I would rather keep off, the kids like to see it. According to my son, it's not a real magazine cover without a barcode

.

One thing that also might help make it look realistic is to add an issue number or date and a price.

I think the key thing for magazine covers is to do what you've done here - put the title text behind the subject. As I'm sure you know, a lot of the photo processors now offer magazine covers, but they just slap their template right on top of the photo, which just looks cheesy.

The only other suggestion I would have is to maybe look at a different style for the title font. Something a little more subtle might help make it look a little more "real".

Here's a sample of one of mine.

Mike J · February 15, 2009

clcoronios wrote:

This is correct. However, an 8x10 could probably be printed from the 5x7 size. Also, that's all I 'offer' (on my price sheet). If a customer wants a larger digital file, that would come under private contract, which would include intended usage.

Thanks for the confirmation. I'm getting a better handle on what I would like to offer. Thanks for all of the good advice.

Mike J · February 15, 2009

b08rsa wrote:

Mike J...
I am not an " expert" in PS, but I would say that I am a "power user" with it. I use PS 7.0 and the more you expierment with it, the more you will love it. As you know by now, not only can you create "layers" to make the mag cover, try expiermenting with the filters to manipulate the picture as well.
Nice shots of the skiers too. I have done trading cards for my daughters soccer team in the past. Here is some of the work that I have done in PS.

Ron

Nice effects on the card. Doing a ski trading card is the next thing I want to tackle. Do you do a two-sided card? If so, what do you have on the other side of this one.

Mike J · February 15, 2009

mike_k wrote:

I like these - nice job! I agree with you about the barcode - while it's probably something I would rather keep off, the kids like to see it. According to my son, it's not a real magazine cover without a barcode .

One thing that also might help make it look realistic is to add an issue number or date and a price.

I think the key thing for magazine covers is to do what you've done here - put the title text behind the subject. As I'm sure you know, a lot of the photo processors now offer magazine covers, but they just slap their template right on top of the photo, which just looks cheesy.

The only other suggestion I would have is to maybe look at a different style for the title font. Something a little more subtle might help make it look a little more "real".

Here's a sample of one of mine.

Thanks for the encouragement. I couldn't agree with you more about the text behind the photo. That is precisely what I did not like about all of the photo processor's templates.

I like your suggestion for issue number/date/price. I'll play with that. The title is actually the result of two layers of the same text. It looks a lot simpler without the 2nd layer. As soon as my son finishes his book report on the other computer, I'll post a sample.

BTW - I also like you diagonal bar in the lower-right corner.

Mike J · February 15, 2009

Taking a cue for Mike_k, I simplified the mag title font and added pricing and issue information down by the barcode.

mike_k · February 16, 2009

I like that one better. If you're interested, here's a close up of my title text:

I used Sports Illustrated as my model (this was taken from their web site):

I think the white border adds some subtle emphasis.

If you've not done so already, I found it helpful to check out the covers section on the SI web site for ideas.

Mike J · February 16, 2009

mike_k wrote:

If you've not done so already, I found it helpful to check out the covers section on the SI web site for ideas.

Your SI cover link is great. I currently have about 7 different mags spread out in front of me - SI, Smithsonian, Bicyling, Pop Photo, etc.

Another question - what size do you print your mag covers at? 8x10? That is what I have mine sized for but I'm wondering about framing with everything that I have so close to the edges. Any thoughts or experiences that you can share?

clcoronios · February 16, 2009

You could put a narrow border around it? But that would detract from the 'look'. Maybe, now that it's all beautiful and perfectly arranged, move all text in just a titch? Try printing - even on plain paper (remember, that's 8.5 x 11, so trim it to 8x10 after printing) and put it in a frame. See what needs to be brought in and rearrange it accordingly.

I tend to shoot tight - LOVE my full frame! - and chastise myself to loosen up! Especially now that I'm wanting to try some montages...

C

mike_k · February 16, 2009

Mike J wrote:

Another question - what size do you print your mag covers at? 8x10? That is what I have mine sized for but I'm wondering about framing with everything that I have so close to the edges. Any thoughts or experiences that you can share?

I print mine 8.5 x 11 - again just to help with the realism factor. I haven't thought much about framing issues. The frames for 8.5 x 11 seem to work fine. The ones that I have framed I used more of a document type frame - with no mat.

b08rsa · February 17, 2009

Mike J...

No, I have not done a 2 sided print for a trading card effect. I would think that is where time and patience come into play. Trying to line everything up on a printer may be a nightmare, but I am sure it could be done. I would think if you are using PS, then start off with 2 files that are the same size. I usually do an 8x10 frame wheb working layers to start off with. When I print them off, I have my local camera shop print into a 3.5 x 5, comes out nice.

jasonstone · March 4, 2009

I've just read this thread and found it really interesting - I was wondering if there is a good place to start? Perhaps a sample PS template that one can download to begin working on?

otherwise where does one start?
what pixel image size should one create - US Letter, A4, or depends upon final print size? should one create it as big as the digital image one's camera can take?

and questions like this

where "one" is me in this case

think i'd love to create one for each of my kids - just from holiday photos - but they'd love it up on their wall

thanks all
Jase

b08rsa · March 4, 2009

jasonstone wrote:

I've just read this thread and found it really interesting - I was wondering if there is a good place to start? Perhaps a sample PS template that one can download to begin working on?

otherwise where does one start?
what pixel image size should one create - US Letter, A4, or depends upon final print size? should one create it as big as the digital image one's camera can take?

and questions like this

where "one" is me in this case

think i'd love to create one for each of my kids - just from holiday photos - but they'd love it up on their wall

thanks all
Jase

Do a google search for a free .psd file. This is how I got the feel for creating them.

Ron A.

b08rsa · March 4, 2009

This picture has 8 different layers to it.

Mike J · March 4, 2009

jasonstone wrote:

I've just read this thread and found it really interesting - I was wondering if there is a good place to start? Perhaps a sample PS template that one can download to begin working on?

otherwise where does one start?
what pixel image size should one create - US Letter, A4, or depends upon final print size? should one create it as big as the digital image one's camera can take?

and questions like this

where "one" is me in this case

think i'd love to create one for each of my kids - just from holiday photos - but they'd love it up on their wall

thanks all
Jase

For the magazine cover, I started with a 8x10 blank page sized to 300 DPI. This was my targeted end product size. For you, just create a new psd file at 300 DPI (or whatever you choose) in the size that you want to print.

From there, you create new layers for each of the desired elements. I created layers for each of the text blocks and a layer for the photo that I wanted to work with. I then saved this as template. When I need to create a version with a different person, I open up the template and the photo in Photoshop, drag the photo over to the template. I then resize the photo and move it to get it where I want it.

I hope this helps.

jasonstone · March 4, 2009

Mike J wrote:

For the magazine cover, I started with a 8x10 blank page sized to 300 DPI. This was my targeted end product size. For you, just create a new psd file at 300 DPI (or whatever you choose) in the size that you want to print.

From there, you create new layers for each of the desired elements. I created layers for each of the text blocks and a layer for the photo that I wanted to work with. I then saved this as template. When I need to create a version with a different person, I open up the template and the photo in Photoshop, drag the photo over to the template. I then resize the photo and move it to get it where I want it.

I hope this helps.

Yep thanks

that's enough to get me started - that's what I had in mind -but I'm no PS expert so thought doesn't hurt to ask before I start down the wrong path!

Cheers, Jase

Magazine Cover - thoughts?

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