Shooting against a dull, flat, white sky?

El Gato · January 22, 2009

I could use some assistance with the following scenario...

The subject, an immature eagle, resting in a tree at about 12 feet high. Distance to subject was approx. five feet. Shooting up at subject, the background sky was flat white to a dull gray, overcast, no sun.

The eagle came out fairly dark, with no detail, against the dull, white background.

I tried several adjustments but still could not get "the shot" detailed enough or crisp enough.

What could I do differently next time, when posed with similar shooting conditions?

Thanks in advance for any insights, assistance, tips, etc.

kdog · January 22, 2009

Happens all the time shooting birds. Even a cloudy sky is much brighter than a dark bird. You have to overexpose the sky to get a good exposure on the bird. The darker the bird, the more you have to overexpose.

Best thing is to shoot in AV mode, and use some positive exposure comp (EC+). You'll need a minimum of 2/3 of a stop most likely. With a bright sky, you made need to go well over 1 stop, almost 2 stops in some cases. Take some test shots of something stationary against the sky, then review the shot on your LCD. Repeat as necessary to get things dialed in. You most likely WILL be blowing out the sky in the process (blinkies going nuts). Can't be helped.

Two more tips: 1) Use matrix metering, not spot. Reason being, it can be quite difficult to keep the "spot" on the bird, especially if it moves. Much better to meter the whole scene, and get familiar with how much EC is typically required for a given situation. It's a good skill to develop. 2) Shoot RAW for best results, as it'll give you the most leeway in adjusting the exposure in post processing.

-joel

pathfinder · January 22, 2009

WHen shooting a bird against a gray sky, the bird is frequently in the shade, and requires three stops more light than when sunlit. Small movements of a birds head move it from sunlight to full shade in the blink of an eye. If you shoot birds often, you begin to pay close attention to how their head is illuminated. It makes the difference between a good shot and one for the bin.

Joel gave very good advice , and I do not use a Spot meter mode either, but Evaluative mode with + Exposure Compensation as he described. I usually shoot Av or Manual mode.

It is the bird that needs proper exposure, not the sky, and you could use spot metering for shooting birds on a stick to gain experience and understanding. It just does not work when they fly off and you want to get them in the air, as there is No Way to keep a spot meter on a BIF.

Birds on sticks, I got! Thanks to Harry and others who taught me all I know.

El Gato · January 23, 2009

pathfinder wrote:

WHen shooting a bird against a gray sky, the bird is frequently in the shade, and requires three stops more light than when sunlit. Small movements of a birds head move it from sunlight to full shade in the blink of an eye. If you shoot birds often, you begin to pay close attention to how their head is illuminated. It makes the difference between a good shot and one for the bin.

Joel gave very good advice , and I do not use a Spot meter mode either, but Evaluative mode with + Exposure Compensation as he described. I usually shoot Av or Manual mode.

It is the bird that needs proper exposure, not the sky, and you could use spot metering for shooting birds on a stick to gain experience and understanding. It just does not work when they fly off and you want to get them in the air, as there is now way to keep a spot meter on a BIF.

Birds on sticks, I got! Thanks to Harry and others who taught me all I know.

THANKS Pathfinder, I appreciate your input. I might wait to practice multiple shots and the bird on a stick process when it is a bit warmer outside. Frozen fingres make for tough shooting!

El Gato · January 23, 2009

kdog wrote:

Happens all the time shooting birds. Even a cloudy sky is much brighter than a dark bird. You have to overexpose the sky to get a good exposure on the bird. The darker the bird, the more you have to overexpose.

Best thing is to shoot in AV mode, and use some positive exposure comp (EC+). You'll need a minimum of 2/3 of a stop most likely. With a bright sky, you made need to go well over 1 stop, almost 2 stops in some cases. Take some test shots of something stationary against the sky, then review the shot on your LCD. Repeat as necessary to get things dialed in. You most likely WILL be blowing out the sky in the process (blinkies going nuts). Can't be helped.

Two more tips: 1) Use matrix metering, not spot. Reason being, it can be quite difficult to keep the "spot" on the bird, especially if it moves. Much better to meter the whole scene, and get familiar with how much EC is typically required for a given situation. It's a good skill to develop. 2) Shoot RAW for best results, as it'll give you the most leeway in adjusting the exposure in post processing.

-joel

THANKS Joel, great tips and advice. As I mentioned to Pathfinder,
I might wait to practice multiple shots and the bird on a stick process when it is a bit warmer outside. Frozen fingres make for tough shooting and birds will be available even in the warmer spring weather. Eagles, although I will have to brave the cold and dress warmly. Thanks again for your insight.

kdog · January 23, 2009

El Gato wrote:

Frozen fingres make for tough shooting...

Click Here.

You'll thank me later.

LiquidAir · January 23, 2009

One option I often use against grey skies is to set my camera to manual and adjust the settings so the sky meters +2. Essentially thats an expose to the right technique made easy because I know the sky will always be the brightest part of any shot in those lighting conditions. Pushing it to +2 on my camera usually preserves enough detail that I can pull the sky back in post and preserve detail.

pathfinder · January 23, 2009

Joel, I bought two pair last week for Nightingale and my pending photo romp out west

See you soon. I'll pm you as we get closer to Az.

kdog · January 23, 2009

pathfinder wrote:

Joel, I bought two pair last week for Nightingale and my pending photo romp out west

See you soon. I'll pm you as we get closer to Az.

Excellent. I think you guys will love those gloves.

Looking forward to seeing you two and hooking up for some shooting when you make it out this way.

Take care and good travels.

-joel

DsrtVW · January 27, 2009

This was with my D300 last week aperture priority, spot metering and spot AF in RAW ISO 200. I do use my spot metering when shooting stationary birds and can change to matrix so easily on the D300 for both the metering and AF. But most of the time I use spot for both. Just depends on what I am chasing. Check the histogram it will be to be biased to the right. And adjust EV if needed to move it there. This was a gray day, no sun getting ready to rain, but it was right around noon
Good Luck and keep shooting

El Gato · January 28, 2009

Thanks DsrtVW
Thaks for your reply and helpfull information. I am headed out later this week for some time in the field and plan to incorporate yoru advice into my shooting. Thanks again for taking the time to reply.

DsrtVW wrote:

This was with my D300 last week aperture priority, spot metering and spot AF in RAW ISO 200. I do use my spot metering when shooting stationary birds and can change to matrix so easily on the D300 for both the metering and AF. But most of the time I use spot for both. Just depends on what I am chasing. Check the histogram it will be to be biased to the right. And adjust EV if needed to move it there. This was a gray day, no sun getting ready to rain, but it was right around noon
Good Luck and keep shooting

El Gato · January 28, 2009

Thanks for your feedback!
Thanks LiquidAir, I'll give this a try this weekend as I am headed out to try my luck with the big birds wintering over in the area.

LiquidAir wrote:

One option I often use against grey skies is to set my camera to manual and adjust the settings so the sky meters +2. Essentially thats an expose to the right technique made easy because I know the sky will always be the brightest part of any shot in those lighting conditions. Pushing it to +2 on my camera usually preserves enough detail that I can pull the sky back in post and preserve detail.

El Gato · February 16, 2009

Field Results from advice received
Thanks to Pahtfinder, LiquidAir, DsrtVW and others who replied to my question.

I was out in the FREEZING Missouri winter weather (not really that cold conisdering I have photograhed in Yellowknife, NWT in Feb., at -56c) and had a great time with my D300 and the advice received herein.

Here are some of the results of a day tracking eagles along the Missouri River. I have reduced the images to a size for easy of posting and file transfer, not quite sure what this will do to the final product, as shown here.

Thanks again, everyone for your insights and input.

El Gato · February 16, 2009

More field results
Here is photo #2

pathfinder · February 16, 2009

Looking good!

Shooting against a dull, flat, white sky?

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