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How many images to provide the customer?
happysmileylady
Registered Users Posts: 195 Major grins
I am just curious how many images you present to your customers for purchase? In the past, I have worked under the premise of, "if you don't shoot it, they can't buy it." But, at the same time, I have also discovered that the more you shoot, the more time it takes both to shoot the sessions and to edit and so on.
I am thinking that the best way for me to ensure that I don't spend a bazillion hours editing and so on, is to avoid shooting out of control from the outset. Telling customers ahead of time a range to expect and the end gives me an idea of how many shots to aim for in the session.
How many do you usually try to aim for to present to brides? How about senior pictures? General family or kids portrait sessions?
I am thinking that the best way for me to ensure that I don't spend a bazillion hours editing and so on, is to avoid shooting out of control from the outset. Telling customers ahead of time a range to expect and the end gives me an idea of how many shots to aim for in the session.
How many do you usually try to aim for to present to brides? How about senior pictures? General family or kids portrait sessions?
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For me I am hiring myself out for a period of time, not for a set amount of shots. not even for a minimum number of shots.
What i do plan on setting up though is a sample gallery so that people can get an "idea" of number of shots during a set period of time. Kinda like the sample gallery I have posted about editing (picture to be changed in that next week i got some wowsers today for that).
Basically I will take my family, or just a kid, out and do a photo shoot as if I was with client. Then post that as a sample. From there potential clients can get an idea...
So you could shoot for an hour, get paid and not deliver any images?
The client is going to expect a certain amount of images for their money. While it is best to get your fee for your time and prints together, simply paying you to hang out with them is not the best way to continue operating as a pro photographer.
You need to work with the client to decide how many finished images they need. Then factor in the time needed to get the shots, edit, burn to cd or print, and deliver to the client.
If you need to deliver 100 final images, take as many as you like, cull out the bad and so so shots, give the client 100 and offer the rest at a set upon rate that was discussed during the contract talks.
If a client asks me for 75, I will offer 100 to 125. The first 75 as part of the agreement, and the additional at a discounted rate.
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Our experience levels are obviously vastly different. Currently I am only keeping about 1/3 of the shots I take. Well okay I keep them all but only take the PP time on about 1/3 to 1/2 of what I take. Which means I am comfortable promising a certain number of pictures, yet.
Interestingly enough, you do not promise a set number either...
Sorry Cygnus I just looked at some of your services listed. You set a maximum number but not a minimum number. Interesting way of doing business. You also don't have a a minimum tie listed either. Makes me real curious what you actually do offer.
Sorry I know this is absurd but reading your services for ,say sports. Up to 3 hours, no minimum? and up to 25 photos, again no minimum. All for $500.
Reads to me like you could show up, say hi and leave again without even taking out your camera (absurd) and still fulfill what you promised.
Again,absurd of course you could never stay in business if you actually did that.
On the other hand sounds similar to what I am doing except I am not putting maximums on number of shots either. Just promising a very small amount of edited shots.
So i guess I am promising something after all, just different way of thinking about it.
For example for 2 hours of my time I promise 5 fully edited pictures and 8x10's of those pictures. in addition I am offering a "proof" CD of all the low resolution images (1200x800px)and an online gallery of the proofs and finished photos.
Then in addition to that a client has the option of purchasing more images from the selection of "proof" images. Those I would of course finish fully.
Just my current way of thinking to help limit time in front of computer. Ialso have a gallery set up showing potential clients the difference between each stage. SOOC, Proof, edited, "select". Those are my levels of photos.
So yeah, I guess I am promising a minimum amount of photos that are ridiculously low so I never have to fear having enough photos.
Another thread got me thinking about how different photographers think about the number of photos to make for a client.
in this thread How many images to provide the customer?
The OP asked how many images to present to a client.
My knee jerk reaction was to not promise anything, just promise my time and you get what you get. Cygnus studios made me think more about that and reviewing my packages I realized that I do in fact promise a ridiculously low number of images. Looking at Cygnus studios website he seems to promise nothing but put a maximum on images...
This got me thinking about how we are doing business. Deliver a set amount, on more no less. Promise a vague range of photos and hope to not disappoint? Shoot on spec alone?
Personally I am doing two things this year. Offering packages and shooting on spec. I have pricing different for both of those as well.
For example.
My packages are a set amount of time with a ridiculously low number of finished images. The rest of the images I deem worthy will be displayed in semi finished fashion as proofs,as well as delivered to the client as 800x1200 files in the semi finished fashion (basically hit auto tone in LR). I also educate the client with a sample gallery on the different levels of PP so they can see an example of the improvements of buying a high resolution finished product from me.
Then as additions clients will be able to buy additional prints, high res disks, 4x6 printed proof books, etc.. from me at a reduced cost. After all they already paid me up front for some of the work.
My on spec work, or for anyone other than my client can buy any image from my website at an increased cost. After all I already spent all the time on creating the image and have received nothing from it yet.
So what is your thinking behind the number of images to show your clients. If you offer packages and spec shooting do the print prices vary?
Just curious here.
I have higher end packages that are the whole meal deal. Two-hour (or more) photo shoot, completed album with matted photos suitable for framing, etc. etc. They're much more expensive (and time consuming PP) so, in today's economy there's not a lot of call for them - but they are available. In this case, I offer a minimum number of photos they'll get - and there's always more.
I prefer to create a certain level of expectation and then greatly exceed it.
http://www.imagesbyceci.com
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Picadilly, NB, Canada
My thinking as well.
Basically if I run over time, so what. If I do full PP on an extra photo or two, big deal. Not a huge time drain on me, but huge perceived value for the client.
So Snogirl, With a maximum "up to 25" images. Ever deliver less? What is the reasoning behind a maximum with no minimums. Just seems weird to me and as a client I personally would run from that wording.
on the same topic, so I've merged them.
Moderator of: Location, Location, Location , Mind Your Own Business & Other Cool Shots
Think about it like shooting a baby. The parents want some shots without the baby crying. You could spend an hour waiting for that moment and capture 3 to 5 images. While you would love to give them 10 or more, the opportunity did not present itself in the time allotted.
The wedding pros that I know try to get the shots that clients want, but if the client doesn't make the time or opportunity to capture those shots, the photographer can only give what they get.
99% of my work are products. As such, my working model is quite different than most. A client will being their product and share what they have in mind for the shot. Typically, I supply up to 25 shots and the client will choose 1 to 5 shots for each item.
For the few sports or events that I cover, the client will choose how many photos they need or want. Some can be specific people or items, and others may be random shots. Totally up to them.
Once they determine how many shots they want, I figure out the time needed to get these shots, edit the shots, and deliver the shots.
The website is really an afterthought. I know that some of the sections are not as clear as they should be, and one day when we aren't busting our butts shooting it will get updated.
It does however give a baseline.
A sports job will start at $500 for three hours and $150 per additional hour. Some clients do not need us for 3 hours. It is still $500. I try my best to give plenty of photos. However, sometimes good shots are far and few in between. There are times during most sporting events where the action is just not happening. Not my fault, I am just there to try to capture what they want.
When the boss sends me out to do a job, that is time away from the normal day to day product shoots.
Now as a recent example, I was sent out to cover an event. The client needed 50 to 75 shots. They will end up picking 1 to 5 to actually publish, but they are paying for 50 to 75.
I finished 201 for their approval. 75 of those images are part of the agreement. They can purchase separately any of the additional images. If they choose not to, that is totally up to them. Either way, I made my money from the shoot.
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When I go into a shoot I already know what the client is looking for. A corporate headshot, I might give them 10-20 images to choose from.
A baby session - they want an album? Great - 20 pages with 30 images works - maybe 50 to 75 to cull from.
Wedding: Album and framed print/canvas - maybe 400 images if which 40-60 go to album.
Children: Find out what that parents want. Maybe you can sell prints, albums, wall pieces...there are all kinds of choices. Make them want to buy them all!
When you know your products then you can figure out the quantity as well as the time you need to create that number. You also need to know your profit and markup. It all ties together
Flash Frozen Photography, Inc.
http://flashfrozenphotography.com
I do not believe that it is ideal for events such as weddings, birthdays or sporting events.
Essentially I feel anything that has circumstances out of your control, i.e. NOT in studio, it could be risky to promise a minimum number of shots.
of course potential clients will want to know numbers. After all they would be seeing it more as $/shot as opposed to $/time like the photographer is approaching it. My guess anyways.
This is why I have listed a certain number, very low, of "select" images with print and digital file. By keeping that number extremely low I feel confidant of getting that many suitable images. Also keeping that number low allows me to keep a low initial cost and hope to get a bit more on the back end. Wishful thinking to be sure, but my thinking non the less.
Also of note is how photographers of differing experience price things differently. largely due to lack of experience, and to a degree confidence, I keep promised numbers low and initial costs low as well.
Other thing to note in my pricing is the lack of the 4x6 print size available. Of course if requested i will get them, but since i am still only a power level user of smugmug I cannot price my prints for profits. I plan on supplying prints through smugmug for clients for greater quality but certainly do not want the hassles of ordering and hand delivering a single 4x6 to anyone. just not cost effective. i would much rather create and send them a digital image for them to print themselves.
I also admit I am heading into this sorta half cocked and no distinct business plan, just ideas which I am starting to act on. So I fully expect things to change in the future as experience grows. End result being that I am able to closer approximate the number of images I will produce in a given amount of time and situation.