I'm gonna miss old STF:-(

Nikolai · May 22, 2005

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1009&message=13577787

TassieD · May 22, 2005

Nikolai wrote:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1009&message=13577787

True, but it just isnt what it used to be a couple of years ago when I joined, which is a real shame.

Skippy · May 22, 2005

Me Too

Nikolai wrote:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1009&message=13577787

Some of the newbies on STF for not very tolerant are they.
I started my Digital Life off on the Sony Forum, lived there pre and post work.

But you know Nikolai........lots of the really nice folks that were there are now here on Dgrin

, but your right, it's like losing part of your family, many wonderful friendships were made on that forum.

Dpreview has become so big I think it's got too big for Phil to mediate it, he can't possibly watch all the threads, the man has a life.

It's ashame that some people go there just to cause trouble, I go there because I have lots of friends there, though I visit it less frequently these days.

Well...... Life Goes On......so Dgrin, hope you got plenty of room for this Forum to grow

Skippy (Australia)

Nikolai · May 22, 2005

yep

Skippy wrote:

Some of the newbies on STF for not very tolerant are they.
I started my Digital Life off on the Sony Forum, lived there pre and post work.

But you know Nikolai........lots of the really nice folks that were there are now here on Dgrin , but your right, it's like losing part of your family, many wonderful friendships were made on that forum.

Dpreview has become so big I think it's got too big for Phil to mediate it, he can't possibly watch all the threads, the man has a life.

It's ashame that some people go there just to cause trouble, I go there because I have lots of friends there, though I visit it less frequently these days.

Well...... Life Goes On......so Dgrin, hope you got plenty of room for this Forum to grow Skippy (Australia)

I'm *VERY* glad to see more and more familiar names/niks from STF here. To a very large degree dgrin combines the STF family atmosphere with all-important brand-irrelevancy. Most of the questions we all had/have cease to be camera specific after just a few weeks of its usage.

I wish Phil had established "a circle of trust" with moderators.. It's plain impossible to moderate such a huge forum system as he has, hence its "full on/full off" mode.

Anyway, I guess I'm just ranting..

Ann McRae · May 22, 2005

Oh, sigh......:cry :cry :cry :cry :cry :cry :cry :cry :cry
My hubby used to refer to stf as my version of internet porn!!!! no kidding. I loved that place. I stayed true to sony, still have 3 of them. But they did not do the job I wanted done, so I got myself a canon. And honestly, I really like it. But what I really like is a community of photographers. If stf hadn't existed I would never have learned what I learned, done what i done and gotten to the point I am at now. I almost never visit stf becuase I almost never shoot with the sony (anyone wanna buy an 828

: ), and because the tone and mood has changed enough that I don't feel comfortable there. I am glad that many are here, and I am especially glad that here is about the pitchas and not the camera.

ann

Shay Stephens · May 22, 2005

Well, that thread degenerated pretty quickly into the cesspool that prompted me to leave almost a month ago. Rest in peace STF, I will remember the good times.

STF is kind of like Anakin / Vader. It started good, but has been twisted to the dark side of evil hehehe. Let's hope it realizes it's mistake and turns back to the light side eventually

Harryb · May 22, 2005

Hi Nikolai,

The old STF had ended for a good while before Phil made his post today. I'm going to miss STF because thats the place that helped to reawaken my interest in photography.

The main problem was not so much the forum but the set up of DPR. Having unmoderated forums just doesn't work well IMHO. Threads that should have been nipped in the bud were allowed to fester. Trolls would get banned one day and then reappear the next with a new persona.

The problems that STF had was mirrored in the Canon and Nikon DSLR forums also. It got so bad on the Nikon forum that some of its members left DPR and established their own site and forum.

wxwax · May 22, 2005

How odd that he doesn't have moderators - did I understand that correctly?

Nikolai · May 22, 2005

Ann, Shay, Harry
I agree, STF has already changed..:uhoh
Well, I guess I am not the only one who outgrew one-camera-brand deal ..
Time to change..
I still will be seen at STF, I only have 828 for now, so I'm still "legit" over there..:-)

David_S85 · May 23, 2005

RIP, STF. Phil just laid down the law. Sure was fun from 2001 to 2004, though. The way it has degraded into a pit of snakes lately, I'm almost proud that I was kicked out of there when I was, last year. :banned

At least I didn't feel any need to (nor was allowed to) pen the obligatory "Good bye, STF" thread there. My DPR member cookie was active on my machine for 90 days following my demise, due to a programming oversight by Phil, so I was able to leave the "I'm over at DGrin these days" in my old member profile before the access dried up completely. :giggle

Besides, everybody that was anybody (at STF) is already over here now. DGrin is better off to have added the best of the STF'ers. I'll go one step farther and proclaim that DGrin IS the new STF.

Hey, why hasn't Ulysses joined up here yet?

Someone needs to recruit him.

Shay Stephens · May 23, 2005

He is a member, but is a moderator over at the digital wedding forum, which keeps him pretty busy

David_S85 wrote:

Hey, why hasn't Ulysses joined up here yet? Someone needs to recruit him.

Phil U. · May 23, 2005

TassieD wrote:

True, but it just isnt what it used to be a couple of years ago when I joined, which is a real shame.

I'm with you. A few months ago I got to the point that I couldn't stand the bickering over there. I jumped ship and found that I am much happier here. It seems to have gotten FAR worse during just these past few months. I hadn't been reading anything there but dropped in because I saw on the main page the most active thread was titled "Missing Andy". My gawd, how horrible that was.

Anyway, that just means it's time to move on.

Steve Cavigliano · May 24, 2005

Hey Nik,

There's an old saying that "you can never go home", or at least not to the "home" you remember. Things change and STF is going through a phase where members are getting so upset with no new high end announcement in sight, that the forum has lost it's balance.

For the last 6 months or so, it's turned into a zoo

People there seem to put more credence into what the trolls have to say than what major contributors have to share

As I wrote in on of my STF posts the other day, when easy-going and oh-so-helpful Shay left the forum in disgust, we should have seen the handwriting on the wall :uhoh

As Ann and others have written, all the kewl folks are over here anyway....

Well, except for Uly and, as Shay mentions, although he's a member he's pretty busy and doesn't get to other forums as often as I'm sure he'd like to.

Bottomline, IMHO, is that the "Old STF" has been gone quite awhile now. Phil's edict didn't change much of anything. The forum was already much different than the one we remember so fondly :cry

On a positive note, the fine members of this community (including yourself) are doing everything they can to make this forum as helpful and as pleasant as the "Old STF" used to be

Steve

Nikolai · May 24, 2005

Steve,

Steve Cavigliano wrote:

Hey Nik,

There's an old saying that "you can never go home", or at least not to the "home" you remember. Things change and STF is going through a phase where members are getting so upset with no new high end announcement in sight, that the forum has lost it's balance.

For the last 6 months or so, it's turned into a zoo People there seem to put more credence into what the trolls have to say than what major contributors have to share

As I wrote in on of my STF posts the other day, when easy-going and oh-so-helpful Shay left the forum in disgust, we should have seen the handwriting on the wall :uhoh

As Ann and others have written, all the kewl folks are over here anyway.... Well, except for Uly and, as Shay mentions, although he's a member he's pretty busy and doesn't get to other forums as often as I'm sure he'd like to.

Bottomline, IMHO, is that the "Old STF" has been gone quite awhile now. Phil's edict didn't change much of anything. The forum was already much different than the one we remember so fondly :cry

On a positive note, the fine members of this community (including yourself) are doing everything they can to make this forum as helpful and as pleasant as the "Old STF" used to be

Steve

Forums like people - they live and die.
I agree with you and with others posters of this thread that the old stf is "no more". And I'm extremely glad to see familiar names and nicks here at dgrin.
Phi'ls message simply drew the line...
I will try to contribute to STF still, first to off-balance the trolls and second to return some knowledge I personally acquired there since the old good times...
Thanks for your comment!
Cheers!

MuskyDude · May 24, 2005

lol...

I'll always remember my very first post with a shot, Andy saying something about rule of thirds... I had posted three images in my thread and I honestly, honestly thought I had broken some forum rule about posting more than two images or something.

AJ

Harryb · May 24, 2005

MuskyDude wrote:

lol...

I'll always remember my very first post with a shot, Andy saying something about rule of thirds... I had posted three images in my thread and I honestly, honestly thought I had broken some forum rule about posting more than two images or something.

AJ

actually you had.

MuskyDude · May 24, 2005

Harryb wrote:

actually you had.

I figured I'd break 'em all at once and save some time.

AJ

JamieC · May 28, 2005

All I have to say is I am glad I found dgrin before this happened. Funny thing is I don't have a DSLR (yet... furnace died recently, so I now have a new furnace and A/C, but no DSLR). For me, it was never about the camera. It was always about the joy of learning. I am a better photographer for having learned from STF, but the old STF is dead.

Jamie

Mongrel · May 28, 2005

Well, better late than never I guess....
Just a few observations...

I was pretty late getting to the dpreview party (July 30, '03), and never much of a contributor to the STF, but I lurked there quite a bit, and spoke up on occasion. I saw enough to know and understand that STF was 'different' than the other forums-much more tight knit and offering some of the best photography examples on all of dpreview. Very unique considering the lack of moderation and the sheer number of participants. 'Back then' Andy was a fairly 'new guy', and Shay, Uly and Harry were on the board all the time.

I can remember the excitement just before the 828 was released and even made firm plans to pick one up as soon as I was able. Well, the Digital Rebel came along and the call of the DSLR swept me away to the Canon forums (what a nightmare they can be lol).

I remember a few brushes with Harry (and possibly others

) over some fairly mundane stuff, and I must admit I probably argued the DSLR side of things a bit much at first. I seem to remember getting hammered pretty good a few times for trying to convince people of the superiority of the SLR over the 'all in one'. I was actually quite tickled when many of the STF gang moved on to DSLR's-Shay, Uly, Harry, Andy, and others.

I really didn't stop in at STF much after picking up the Rebel, and was never really part of the gang (similar to here I guess). I just find it hard to spend a lot of time on forums. And trust me, back then, if you owned a DSLR, you kept a low profile

: . Post a Canon pick :uhoh , no way

Anyway....

I recently started checking in over there (STF) because I picked up a W1 and well, just because I wanted to see how it was going after DGrin had been established.

WOW

Civil war, strife, famine, CANONS, NIKONS!

I sort of came to a conclusion about the whole mess-

It was time for the 'old gang' to move on. Times change, and it seemed that not many (if any) of the old gang were even shooting with current Sony models, which makes it real hard to keep up with much of what was going on. Yes, the trolls were threatening to destroy what so many of you had worked so hard to create, etc. etc. etc. I felt your pain, but honestly, it pained me to see you guys pulled down into that ugly vortex of attack, defend, attack, defend, ad nauseum. It just wasn't working-and probably never would.

As far as I can tell as pretty much an outsider, the best thing for the old gang to do, was to come here. Quietly walk away, swallow your collective pride and let 'them' have the forum.

Think of it this way:

The well respected and esteemed man or woman whose character slips even an inch, falls miles. The low-life and forum scum will always be what they are and nobody will expect anything more from them. When you allowed 'them' to pull you into their game, you fell, and fell far. Sad, but I believe true. It was not worth risking your good names and reputations over.

Digital Grin is all that the 'old' STF was AND MUCH MORE. You have a community here based on photography and FRIENDS, camera brands or preferences have no bearing (and that is a great thing). You have moderators to nip any garbage in the bud. You have a better forum layout and design, and many more advantages over STF. And heck-YOU HAVE ANDY and they don't!!!

I have made two replies to posts at STF (one was deleted), giving out Digital Grin as an alternative place to hang out. I hope that is ok. I'm not actively recruiting people, just giving them a heads up that there is an alternative to the strict 'Sony only' forum guideline as requested by Phil. Hopefully it will draw off some like minded people to check out what you have built here.

Lament over STF? Why, when you have a much-no MUCH cooler place to hang out?

Peace and best wishes,

Mongrel

Angelo · May 28, 2005

All I can say is... I'm very glad I've started my forum life here at dGrin. I've ventured over to take a peek at the other sites and while I don't care about and won't comment on the content of the posts I will compare the outstanding design of dGrin to them.

Those old fashioned bulletin board type forums are ridiculously confusing and difficult to navigate (IMHO).

Patch? Baldy? Andy? Shay? - whoever is responsible for the design, navigation and lay-out of dGrin gets one heck of a

from me.

Daniel Chui · May 28, 2005

Shay Stephens wrote:

Well, that thread degenerated pretty quickly into the cesspool that prompted me to leave almost a month ago. Rest in peace STF, I will remember the good times.

STF is kind of like Anakin / Vader. It started good, but has been twisted to the dark side of evil hehehe. Let's hope it realizes it's mistake and turns back to the light side eventually

Nice analogy. STF had good people but overall I feel better posting shots when the camera isn't as big a deal.

- Chui

TassieD · May 29, 2005

Daniel Chui wrote:

Nice analogy. STF had good people but overall I feel better posting shots when the camera isn't as big a deal.

- Chui

I'm with you on that one Daniel

thumb

MrBook2 · May 29, 2005

STF's silent masses
I don't have a lot to add to this, I think most of what needs to be said has been. But I do want to say that I think there may be a lot of folks who were quietly "at" STF, lurking, reading and learning. I was one of them. I didn't post much, but I was reading all the time. I was also a late comer to STF, and I think I got in just as things really started to go downhill. In the past couple of months I have found it harder and harder to find the useful stuff hidden beind the arguments and attacks. I hope that some of the silent masses will find a new refuge (be it here or elsewhere) instead of sinking into that mire or even worse, giving up on photography.

I am still getting used to the layout here, but there seem to be a lot of good folks here.

--Aaron

Netgarden · May 29, 2005

Hi Daniel, Tass and Aaron, I think the hard part [besides no moderators] is that when we first start out posting there, we don't realize the "camera" stigma is a problem. I never gave it a thought when getting the 20D that anything would be any different there. And I never posted canon photos. But life goes on I guess. It's really too bad. I think the lack of moderators is the problem with all the forums there. Hard one to tackle though.

You are so right, it really should be specific for sony info, and this type of forum like dgrin is for everyone. I love that! Glad to be here and would be honored to trade photo stories with even a Brownine owner!!!!:D <<boy thats aging me....<img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/6029383/emoji/rolleyes1.gif" border="0" alt="" > !

MrBook2 wrote:

I don't have a lot to add to this, I think most of what needs to be said has been. But I do want to say that I think there may be a lot of folks who were quietly "at" STF, lurking, reading and learning. I was one of them. I didn't post much, but I was reading all the time. I was also a late comer to STF, and I think I got in just as things really started to go downhill. In the past couple of months I have found it harder and harder to find the useful stuff hidden beind the arguments and attacks. I hope that some of the silent masses will find a new refuge (be it here or elsewhere) instead of sinking into that mire or even worse, giving up on photography.

I am still getting used to the layout here, but there seem to be a lot of good folks here.

--Aaron

Peter Dumont · May 29, 2005

David_S85 wrote:

RIP, STF. Besides, everybody that was anybody (at STF) is already over here now. DGrin is better off to have added the best of the STF'ers. I'll go one step farther and proclaim that DGrin IS the new STF.

Hey, why hasn't Ulysses joined up here yet? Someone needs to recruit him.

I don't know,.......

It's just not the same without those Trolls .

huh

Bye,
Peter Dumont

Shay Stephens · May 29, 2005

Don't you know the rules?!?!

Peter Dumont wrote:

It's just not the same without those Trolls .

Talking out of turn... that's a paddling. Looking out the window... that's a paddling. Staring at my sandals... that's a paddling. Wishing there were trolls... ooh, you better believe that's a paddling.

Peter Dumont · May 31, 2005

statistics
Some minor statistic.

For challenge 39 here at DGrin, allready 65 people have casted their vote.
( Voting is still in progress.)

For Challenge 92 (streetphotography) which was held last month at STF and which I had the honour to host, only 20 people took the trouble to cast their vote.

Bye,
Peter Dumont

I'm gonna miss old STF:-(

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