How big could this print?

jnrpotography · June 27, 2009

If my file size is 3888 x 2592 pixles would that be enough to get a 24 x 36 poster sized print and have it look awesome? This would be for a potential customer so I wouldn't want to do it and then have it print like junk. Thanks

pathfinder · June 27, 2009

3888 / 36 = 108 pixels per inch - pretty low for high quality printing

2592 / 24 = 108 ppi as well

If this image is very sharp and high quality, you might uprez it in Photoshop of via Blow UP or Genuine Fractals and get away with it. But you will not be able to print it directly at 108 ppi and get first rate quality.

Usually 180 ppi is the lower limit recommended for fine art images printed large ( say 24 x36 or larger ) and viewed from several feet.

There is a little tute about resolution here

ziggy53 · June 27, 2009

jnrpotography wrote:

If my file size is 3888 x 2592 pixles would that be enough to get a 24 x 36 poster sized print and have it look awesome? This would be for a potential customer so I wouldn't want to do it and then have it print like junk. Thanks

There is no absolute measure for how large an individual image file will print. A good rule of thumb for many image types printed using a commercial "silver based" print is to calculate the size based on 240 dpi.

In your case that would mean that a 16" x 10.75" should look very good indeed assuming that the image itself is capable.

There are interpolation routines and techniques available, and most commercial RIPs are very competent at upressing images. I suggest that you just need to try it and see if you think the quality will translate to your desired size. There is a very good chance that if you like a 12" x 8" of your image you would also like a 36" x 24", so you might try that print size first.

jnrpotography · June 27, 2009

If I were using Bay photo to print this, have you had anything by them printed that big? So what are my options then. The pixles I mentioned in my original post are at the largest they can go. I shoot with the Canon 40D, so I am forever stuck with only offering clients smaller sized prints until I upgrade to the 5D MarkII. Also does Bay poto automatically omit certain sizes for purchase, rendering them too small for a certain format? What would be the largest I could print with the above mentioned pixles?

Sam · June 28, 2009

Jen,

There is no one answer.

I have some very nice 20X30 prints from my original 6 MP Digital Rebel. I have printed a 40X60 image from my 5D.

It depends a lot on the original image capture quality, the type of image, processing, choice of media, etc.

Post or provide a link to the full size image you want to print.

Sam

Art Scott · June 28, 2009

Here is has been my methodology for print size limit......my 6 & 8 mp files when resized to 300DPI were very close to 8x10 print size....at this resolution I then moved my file to genuine fractals and uprezed to say 40 x 60 inches at 300dpi....(you can get a free trial of GF to do this with) save the finished uprez if it looks good to you.....reopen in photoshop and set crop tool for 8x10 and crop the file ....save this file with a different name(original GF'ed file name is XXCCXXSSC.......new croped is named XXCCXXSSC-cropped) ......take the cropped file and burn a disk or upload to WalMart for processing (or whoever does really cheap processing in your area) and if the finished print looks good then when a full sized print is done by a pro lab it will knock you off your feet.................

That is how I find out just how huge a print I can make that looks great....................

HDRoamer · February 4, 2011

Bump: Update; I was looking for advice on up-sizing photos. Found this thread and found out Genuine Fractals is now been renamed as 'Perfect Resize 7'.
http://www.ononesoftware.com/products/perfect-resize/

They claim to be the industry standard for resizing. Have we found this to be true?
Thanks!

arodney · February 4, 2011

You really do not need Genuine Fractals unless you are working with tiny originals going huge (or decent originals going massive). A clean digital capture can easily go 200% to 400% IF properly handled. This piece will help you do this using good old Photoshop:
http://www.digitalphotopro.com/technique/software-technique/the-art-of-the-up-res.html

Sam · February 5, 2011

HDRoamer wrote: »

Bump: Update; I was looking for advice on up-sizing photos. Found this thread and found out Genuine Fractals is now been renamed as 'Perfect Resize 7'.
http://www.ononesoftware.com/products/perfect-resize/

They claim to be the industry standard for resizing. Have we found this to be true?
Thanks!

Current versions of Photoshop do a nice job at up-rezing images, but Genuine Fractals does a better job.

If your looking at only one image now and again it wouldn't be cost effective to buy it. Many companies have great RIP programs that do a realy good job at up-rezing.

Call Bay Photo and talk to them.

Sam

Art Scott · February 5, 2011

In addition to what SAM said...I have used GF since before OnOne bought it....I find that it does a much more superior job on the uprezing and also it is a 1 step uprez by dimension, or percent.
I have never liked having to view something from across the room for it to look tight...so I uprez anything being printed above 8x10 inches......I resize in photoshop the DPI to get my image as close to 8x10 as possible (you must have the constrain proportions checked and the Scale Styles and Resample boxes unchecked) (depending on my camera between 300 and 450dpi) then I crop it to 8x10....now I am ready for the uprez in GF....I normally take my images to 30x40 inches...that is a huge file, real close to 1gb.......but even a 40x60 inch print can be viewed at 1 foot and see no discernible grain / noise...that is as long as my original is grainless / noiseless.......

If you wish to try it out use their fully functional trail download....as I said it is (or was) fully functional....the last I downloaded I was able to use for 30 days and could save 25 finished images......the key to not wasting your trial is to preview all uprezes and only save the ones you really want to print...

Good Luck

HDRoamer · February 5, 2011

Andrew, Sam, and Art - Thanks!
All your experience is giving great helpful advice I'll be able to use forever in this biz.

I've got a project right now to help a guy with some editing, then up size from 3779 x 2567, he's wishing for a 24" x 36" but the image qual is not quite there (It's his shot, not likely able to get reshot, plus he's a friend so I was extending a hand). So all I can do is do my best with what I've got.

I'm liking the BayPhoto idea for now until I'm ready to up size a batch of my own.

Thanks again.

arodney · February 8, 2011

IF you have a raw to start with, interpolate up in the converter (ACR/LR) which will do an even better job than Photoshop.

HDRoamer · February 16, 2011

Sam wrote: »

Current versions of Photoshop do a nice job at up-rezing images, but Genuine Fractals does a better job.

If your looking at only one image now and again it wouldn't be cost effective to buy it. Many companies have great RIP programs that do a realy good job at up-rezing.

Call Bay Photo and talk to them.

Sam

Update: I did talk to Bay Photo. They do not offer an 'Up-Size' service.
So I'll be trying it myself.

ziggy53 · February 16, 2011

HDRoamer wrote: »

Update: I did talk to Bay Photo. They do not offer an 'Up-Size' service.
So I'll be trying it myself.

The "upres" is intrinsic to their printing process. They don't have to offer a separate service, because the printer and its "RIP" (Raster Image Processor) engine does it automatically.

Many companies use a Durst Theta 76 HS for very large prints. It has a splendid onboard RIP.

If you do decide to interpolate the file yourself, do take the time to find out exactly what printer they are using and interpolate the file to the exact dimensions and dpi of that device. The last thing you want is for the printing device to re-interpolate the file to a different size or dpi, introducing additional artifacts.

Be very careful using your computer screen to determine sharpness. Do not oversharpen, because the printer RIP will apply some sharpening by default. Any USM sharpening artifacts will just amplify in the RIP.

HDRoamer · February 16, 2011

ziggy53 wrote: »

The "upres" is intrinsic to their printing process. They don't have to offer a separate service, because the printer and its "RIP" (Raster Image Processor) engine does it automatically.

Many companies use a Durst Theta 76 HS for very large prints. It has a splendid onboard RIP.

If you do decide to interpolate the file yourself, do take the time to find out exactly what printer they are using and interpolate the file to the exact dimensions and dpi of that device. The last thing you want is for the printing device to re-interpolate the file to a different size or dpi, introducing additional artifacts.

Be very careful using your computer screen to determine sharpness. Do not oversharpen, because the printer RIP will apply some sharpening by default. Any USM sharpening artifacts will just amplify in the RIP.

Thanks! Good to know.

Would have been nice if they had mentioned their capability for this, huh? I did get the impression the person I talked to had not been there very long.

Sam · February 16, 2011

HDRoamer wrote: »

Thanks! Good to know.

Would have been nice if they had mentioned their capability for this, huh? I did get the impression the person I talked to had not been there very long.

They have some very knowledgeable people so go ahead and call them back.

One thing you could try is to crop out a small section of your image. Crop it so the small crop section is the same ppi as the full image would be at the print size. Don't interpolate.

Then take this small crop and print it at say 8X10. If you have kept the ppi and ratios for print size close the 8X10 should be representative to what the large print will look like.

I hope I have explained this well.

Sam

HDRoamer · February 17, 2011

Sam wrote: »

They have some very knowledgeable people so go ahead and call them back.

One thing you could try is to crop out a small section of your image. Crop it so the small crop section is the same ppi as the full image would be at the print size. Don't interpolate.

Then take this small crop and print it at say 8X10. If you have kept the ppi and ratios for print size close the 8X10 should be representative to what the large print will look like.

I hope I have explained this well.

Sam

Thanks Sam, your explanation makes perfect sense.
(And all of you with input)

After talking with BayP again, I had comfirmed the up-sizing is still required. They stated the print rip does scale but does not resolve poor resolution, in so many words. So if a drastic increase in size is present, it is best to up-size before uploading to Bay.

So I downloaded the 'Perfect Resize' demo and used it. Then did an on-screen inspection instead of printing based on your crop procedure. (didn't care to waste the ink, knowing Bay would reject the file if outcome was not to be acceptable.)

I also did and upsize, right from Lightroom and visually could now see much difference.

So I place an order this morning, my first with Bay and first in my new business venture.

Thank you! - Everyone for your dialog here to help me sort this out.

thumb

HDRoamer · February 17, 2011

ziggy53 wrote: »

The "upres" is intrinsic to their printing process. They don't have to offer a separate service, because the printer and its "RIP" (Raster Image Processor) engine does it automatically.

Many companies use a Durst Theta 76 HS for very large prints. It has a splendid onboard RIP.

If you do decide to interpolate the file yourself, do take the time to find out exactly what printer they are using and interpolate the file to the exact dimensions and dpi of that device. The last thing you want is for the printing device to re-interpolate the file to a different size or dpi, introducing additional artifacts.

Be very careful using your computer screen to determine sharpness. Do not oversharpen, because the printer RIP will apply some sharpening by default. Any USM sharpening artifacts will just amplify in the RIP.

Hi Ziggy,
Thanks for the suggestions. Bay Photo still advises to upsize before the RIP. So that's what I did. Pretty simple process so why not for a little insurance.
Thanks

Sam · February 17, 2011

HD,

Please let us know how it came out and the exact input / output data to perfect size.

sam

How big could this print?

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