Drobo hardrive system

Tango · June 26, 2009

I hope this is an answer to my home system with multiple computers...
I imagine that Lightroom catalog would work well with this and no more transferring from laptop to desktop anymore...(I hope it works like i think)

anyway...its new news to me, and it will be many moons before I can get one but I wanted you guys to know about it...

http://www.drobo.com/resources/drobodemo.php?ID=0906_PhotoWalk

what do you guys think? worth it?

Sam · June 28, 2009

This looks interesting. I will be needing a ton more storage and backup shortly and will be investigating this.

Sam

Art Scott · June 29, 2009

personally I will just stick with my 3 deep harddrives + van tech dual hdd dock.........much less expensive........

hnjngo · June 30, 2009

Art Scott wrote:

personally I will just stick with my 3 deep harddrives + van tech dual hdd dock.........much less expensive........

Can you explain how your Van Tech dual HDD dock works?

dangin · July 20, 2009

i have the current Drobo (w/ fw800) and have been pretty happy with it overall. connected via firewire, i did have the issue where it would go to sleep and i'd have to reboot the computer. this happens a lot w/ firewire drives however and i got around it with a program called "no sleep hd." r/w performance is okay; not quite as fast as fw800 could go but it handles well enough. i currently have 4x 1TB drives (3 WD black + 1 seagate). at this point, i'm just waiting for the 2TB drives to drop to about $175/each and i'll be picking up another drobo to fill with up with them. i wish they offered mounting rail kit as it would be nice to be able mount it in my server rack.

i'm interested in their new DroboPro but it's still too pricey IMO. iSCSI + 8TB =

Art Scott · July 21, 2009

[Quote:]
Originally Posted by Art Scott
personally I will just stick with my 3 deep harddrives + van tech dual hdd dock.........much less expensive........[\quote]

hnjngo wrote:

Can you explain how your Van Tech dual HDD dock works?

The Van Tech is a dual drive dock.....it accepts one or 2 2.5 or 3.5 drives and works just like any external drive...according to what I have read......currently Iam actually using a single drive dock from ThermalTake (Black Widow Blac-X) it is a sata drive to USb or esata to your computer......drive won't over heat since iut is in the open air....I use a gold PrismaColor Pm120 Metallic Gold Fine Point pen (made by Sanford---the SHARPIE PEOPLE) to identify each of my drives..........I do not use any fancy back up software I simply drag and drop my file on the next drive and whe nit encounters files it has previously written it asks do I want ot over write and i always say YES....YES TO ALL.....that way i can just go to sleep and it copies and also recopies the files to my back ups......i constantly do this so as my main drive fills my back ups have the exact same files on them...when I hit about 450gb on a 500 gb drive (that leaves 50gb for finishing up any postprocessing I have to do as I shoot way more than I can get processed in a week) ...then it is time for 3 more drives and i store the other 3......one drive is always a working drive...so in reality I have 4 drives in a set

so in my case I have room for a total of 7 drives....2 of those are my "c" drive and its clone ("d" drive) and then I have 1 500gb and 5 - 1 tb drives .....these are my working drives.....then there will be 3 back ups for each one of these.........

My libarying is done similar to Scott Kelby's method in his LR2 book....in which everything is bacsically in one large file with sub folders by date shot and as you run these thru LR then you tag and copyright each file so it can be search for by meta tags and titles but it is always kept in the date shot folder...........

I had started doing this with Seagate FreeAgent pro Externals....but quickly saw it was going to reek havoc on storage....safe storage (my friends gun safe) or a very large safety deposit box.....so i found the HDD docks and have studied them ...much easier to store a flat boxed hdd than a large flat box external drive ......I have been ourchasing OEM drives...they come in a haed plastic shell for hanging on a peg hook in a retail store and an anti-static sleeve...much easier to store in less room. still using Seagate Drives primarily with a few Hitachis tossed in due to sale pricing at Tiger Direct.

HTH to explain how I do it....................

Newsy · July 21, 2009

hnjngo wrote:

Can you explain how your Van Tech dual HDD dock works?

Vantec actually....

I'm using the Vantec Nexstar with USB2.0 and eSATA connectivity.

http://www.vantecusa.com/demo/front/product/pro_list/70

Essentially, with the dock systems, the hard drives function like oversize flash memory cards. Stick 'em in, pull 'em out (except not quite that simple). With 500GB 7200rpm hard drives running about $50 these days, it is one of the lowest cost and fastest backup methods, much easier and way faster than using DVD's.

I use software that copies files in their native format to the external drives. By native format, I mean without compression or any other adjustment - the intent is to have the drive readable by any other Windows compatible PC.

Syncback SE is one software I use.
http://www.2brightsparks.com/syncback/sbse.html

Beyond Compare v3 is another I use, and which I've moved to for most backup work recently.
http://www.scootersoftware.com/

I also use a software utility to control the connection when using eSATA for connectivity. I have read several reports of people using eSATA and having issues disconnecting the drive in the dock before swapping in a new drive. There have been reports of data corruption on the entire volume possibly related to improperly swapping in/out drives. Apparently the standard Windoze "Safely Remove Hardware" utility that pops up in the far right end of the Task Bar is not always up to the task of writing out and clearing the drive cache and then spinning down the drive.

So I found and have been using this utility:

HotSwap!
http://mysite.verizon.net/kaakoon/hotswap/index_enu.htm

and yes.... on my Vista Ultimate 64bit PC, my Windoze utility did NOT deal with the eSATA connection, almost like it had no idea it was there.

But I will say, when you are starting a fresh new back-up drive and know that you have about 100GB+ of files you want to copy over, you will be thankful you have eSATA. It is noticeably faster than USB2.

I do use a small fan with my dock as some of my back-up sessions go for an hour or longer and the drives do tend to feel a bit warm.

Due to it's 2.5" drive dock, it is very useful for doing a drive image when your laptop drive needs to be increased in size.

I have several drives that I do incremental weekly, and monthly backups to and I rotate one drive out to an external location away from my home office in case thieves clean us out or we have a fire.

That said, I have been looking for a small NAS device on which I can place a copy of my photos simply so family members can access them easily from the other household PC and to act a another backup.

.

jpb · August 1, 2009

dangin wrote:

i have the current Drobo (w/ fw800) and have been pretty happy with it overall. connected via firewire, i did have the issue where it would go to sleep and i'd have to reboot the computer. this happens a lot w/ firewire drives however and i got around it with a program called "no sleep hd." r/w performance is okay; not quite as fast as fw800 could go but it handles well enough. i currently have 4x 1TB drives (3 WD black + 1 seagate). at this point, i'm just waiting for the 2TB drives to drop to about $175/each and i'll be picking up another drobo to fill with up with them. i wish they offered mounting rail kit as it would be nice to be able mount it in my server rack.

i'm interested in their new DroboPro but it's still too pricey IMO. iSCSI + 8TB =

What's the noise level like for the Drobo? Is it something that could be tolerated in a media center?

W.W. Webster · August 1, 2009

dangin wrote:

at this point, i'm just waiting for the 2TB drives to drop to about $175/each and i'll be picking up another drobo to fill with up with them.

Why would you do this? Isn't the idea with the Drobo that you would simply replace one or more of the 1TB drives in the existing unit with 2TB drives and let the Drobo manage usage of the additional capacity?

dangin · August 2, 2009

jpb wrote:

What's the noise level like for the Drobo? Is it something that could be tolerated in a media center?

it's pretty manageable. in fact, i have one sitting less than 4 ft away from me at my desk.

dangin · August 2, 2009

W.W. Webster wrote:

Why would you do this? Isn't the idea with the Drobo that you would simply replace one or more of the 1TB drives in the existing unit with 2TB drives and let the Drobo manage usage of the additional capacity?

because of 2 reasons:

1) every time you swap a drive out, it has to rebuild the RAID array; with terabytes of data this takes a really long time. and i'd have to do it 4x. suck.

2) why just get another drobo and fill it up w/ bigger drives and copy everything over? because i can.

W.W. Webster · August 2, 2009

dangin wrote:

every time you swap a drive out, it has to rebuild the RAID array; with terabytes of data this takes a really long time

But is the storage on the Drobo unusable while it does this?

dangin · August 2, 2009

with most RAIDs, it is unadvised to try to add/remove/edit data to it while rebuilding the array.

W.W. Webster wrote:

But is the storage on the Drobo unusable while it does this?

W.W. Webster · August 2, 2009

dangin wrote:

every time you swap a drive out, it has to rebuild the RAID array; with terabytes of data this takes a really long time

... like, longer than overnight?

Pardon my questions, but I'm just interested to learn about the practical use of this device from an expert!

dangin · August 2, 2009

W.W. Webster wrote:

... like, longer than overnight?

Pardon my questions, but I'm just interested to learn about the practical use of this device from an expert!

oh yeah. i think it took about 20 hours to rebuild the array when one of my seagate drives went wonky. that's with about 2.5TB of data on the array. with smaller amounts of data, it should take less time.

AlbertZeroK · August 2, 2009

Drobo No. Windows Home Server Yes.

dangin wrote:

oh yeah. i think it took about 20 hours to rebuild the array when one of my seagate drives went wonky. that's with about 2.5TB of data on the array. with smaller amounts of data, it should take less time.

We use Windows Home Server based machines in the field and in the office, it is auto-replicating and can back up to Amazon S3 if you need it to. It's also basically a Windows Server 2003, so you can install and run your own software on it. We also use Software RAID 5 for short term (working space) on the server either under Windows XP Pro x64 or Vista Ultimate x64 (Although, I prefer the windows xp based raid in the office.)

At home, I have a pair of 12TB Arrays (Seagate 1.5G x 8) in Rosewill 8x Drive RAID cases (from Newegg.) One array is my live array, the other serves as a backup. I store our entire DVD collection on it and can play anything from any room in the house. Those arrays are build at Software RAID 5.

For portable use, I use to use Western Digital 320G laptop drives in external cases from WD because they only require 1 usb connection, but have since moved to 500G Seagate external drives because of the new docking system Seagate has for them.

We handle very large data sets (Color TIFF arial photography) for our clients and often transfer very large data sets. I keep atleast 1TB of storage with me on the road.

We've gone through multiple solutions over the years, including some high end raid cards and set ups. But right now we typically use software raid as we've found typically the through put for our usage is as good as a hardware solution (of course, we don't do alot of random R/W).

The Drobo scares me though. If my Windows Ultimate x64 box at the office crashes, I can take those drives to another WIndows machine (home server, server, xp pro) and read the array. If the Drobo dies, this is not possible because of it's propietary format. Besides, for the same price, I can get a Windows Home Server which gives me more options.

xxclixxx · August 3, 2009

You should be able to get the Drobo Pro and plop those drives right into it. At least that's what I heard. Then add in more drives as it holds double =P

Anyways the idea is to add bigger drives over time, not wait till it needs 4 new ones

Sam · August 5, 2009

Ok,<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
I have a few questions. Please type your answers slowly so I have a slim chance of understanding them. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
I will be purchasing a Mac Pro in a little while, and I don’t have a clear understanding of what kind of storage or backup I need or how it works.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
What I am looking for is an explanation in English how a storage / backup system works. A flow chart type of explanation if you will rather than a technical explanation. Once I grasp the concepts I will start to learn about the technical aspects of the solution.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
The Mac will take 4 internal HDs, if one is for programs, can I use the remaining three for data? Do I need a dedicated scratch disk? I also want to have a backup (external) system as well. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Once the internal Hds are full what do I do then? What do I do when the external backup drives are full?<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Is there a way, system, ( simple), as the drives get full to periodically remove a HD with data and store it in a safe place?<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Is there a way to keep say only selected images on the internal HDs, and store all the images on the external HDs and remove, store and replace the external as they fill up?<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
I hope I have explained my question well enough.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Note: I currently have an old decrepit PC and my 750 Gig external backup is virtually full.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Thanks!!<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Sam<o:p></o:p>

AlbertZeroK · August 5, 2009

Sam wrote:

Ok,<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
I have a few questions. Please type your answers slowly so I have a slim chance of understanding them. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
I will be purchasing a Mac Pro in a little while, and I don’t have a clear understanding of what kind of storage or backup I need or how it works.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
What I am looking for is an explanation in English how a storage / backup system works. A flow chart type of explanation if you will rather than a technical explanation. Once I grasp the concepts I will start to learn about the technical aspects of the solution.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
The Mac will take 4 internal HDs, if one is for programs, can I use the remaining three for data? Do I need a dedicated scratch disk? I also want to have a backup (external) system as well. <o:p></o:p>

If you use photoshop or something simular alot, yes, a separate physical hard drive for scratch space is great to have. Any cheap 7200 RPM drive should do, if you use it alot, you might consider ES.2 drives from Seagate or another type of professional version RAID level enterprise drive. Alternatively, look at the Western Digital RAPTORS which are VERY fast hard drives.
<o:p></o:p>

Once the internal Hds are full what do I do then? What do I do when the external backup drives are full?<o:p></o:p>

keep adding drives externally.
<o:p></o:p>

Is there a way, system, ( simple), as the drives get full to periodically remove a HD with data and store it in a safe place?<o:p></o:p>

Your best best is to hook an external drive to the machine. Internal solutions are available and while a bit faster than USB, are a bit more difficult. You may also look at an External SATA drive which would be as fast as an internal drive.
<o:p></o:p>

Is there a way to keep say only selected images on the internal HDs, and store all the images on the external HDs and remove, store and replace the external as they fill up?

Not sure on this.
<o:p></o:p>

But I would highly recomend checking out the Apple Time Machine system, I hear it's great (I'm not a mac guy.)

pathfinder · August 6, 2009

Sam wrote:

Ok,<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
I have a few questions. Please type your answers slowly so I have a slim chance of understanding them. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
I will be purchasing a Mac Pro in a little while, and I don’t have a clear understanding of what kind of storage or backup I need or how it works.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
What I am looking for is an explanation in English how a storage / backup system works. A flow chart type of explanation if you will rather than a technical explanation. Once I grasp the concepts I will start to learn about the technical aspects of the solution.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
The Mac will take 4 internal HDs, if one is for programs, can I use the remaining three for data? Do I need a dedicated scratch disk? I also want to have a backup (external) system as well. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Once the internal Hds are full what do I do then? What do I do when the external backup drives are full?<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Is there a way, system, ( simple), as the drives get full to periodically remove a HD with data and store it in a safe place?<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Is there a way to keep say only selected images on the internal HDs, and store all the images on the external HDs and remove, store and replace the external as they fill up?<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
I hope I have explained my question well enough.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Note: I currently have an old decrepit PC and my 750 Gig external backup is virtually full.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Thanks!!<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Sam<o:p></o:p>

Sam, My Mac Pro has four drives in it. A 300Gb is my main HD that came with the Mac. It has my OS and my apps on it. I have three more 1 Tb drives in the basic box. One drive is set up in two partitions, 300Gb for a BU of my main drive, and 700Gb as a Flash Disc for PS. The other two 1 Tb drives are for data. When I upload a Compact Flash card to Lightroom, the images are copied to a folder on one of the data drives, and a second copy of the image is copied to a folder on the other 1Tb data drive by Lightroom as it ingests the files. Easy Peasy.

In addition I have external drives that offer additional bu for my main drive and my data drives. My documents folder is also written to a DVD periodically as are my downloaded application files which includes Lightroom and Photoshop, Photomatix, etal.

This is not the only way to do it, but it seems to work for me.

I have a Drobo but it is currently off line as it made my Mac act peculiar. The drives in it, I reformatted and are what I have in my box right now. When the 2 Tb drives are cheaper, I will put them in the Drobo and try with it again.

I use SuperDuper as my BU software, as I have for several years. I had a major hard drive crash on an earlier Mac, and just rebooted from my BU made by SuperDuper and kept on working.

W.W. Webster · August 7, 2009

Sam wrote:

I have a few questions.

Sam

Like Pathfinder, I have four internal drives in my Mac Pro - two 500GB drives that came with the machine, and two 1.5TB drives I have added more recently when I needed more capacity.

Originally, all my flies (including images) and applications were on one 500GB drive, and the other was used by Time Machine to maintain backups automatically. I have since moved all my files (including, currently, 42,000 image files managed in a single Lightroom catalogue) and all applications to one 1.5TB drive, with the other 1.5TB drive used by Time Machine.

One of the original 500MB drives is now used to hold another backup of just my image files (355GB and growing) that I maintain manually from time to time by simple drag and drop (giving me three copies of all my images on separate internal drives - call me 'paranoid'). I use the other 500GB as a spare, bootable drive.

So that's my present online disk configuration. I've never seen any merit (performance-related or for any other reason) to split my working system over two or more drives. It just introduces management issues without corresponding advantage as far as I'm concerned. Disk is cheap and getting cheaper! By putting my entire working system on a single drive, I can then leave it to Time Machine to maintain hourly incremental backups of my entire system, which it does superbly - no ifs, buts or maybes. Off course I don't depend solely on internal storage, with another copy of all image files on DVDs held off-site, and copies of other key business files on two external 200GB drives also held off-site.

This arrangement works well to meet my requirements. I hope my approach may be helpful to you as you work out the optimum arrangement for your circumstances and needs. My 40 year career in IT has taught me to keep things simple, and to maintain a backup regime that enables recovery from any potential catastrophe at any time.

Sam · August 7, 2009

Pathfinder,

Thanks for the reply!

I do have a few more questions.

If I understand you correctly you have all your data and apps backed up on your internal HDs. That would mean you only have 1Tb of data storage internally. Do you manage (cull through and delete images) off your internal HDs keeping all images on external backups?

1Tb which only a short time ago seemed so huge will hold me for a little while, but I will fill that up in a relatively short period of time and I am trying to buy / setup the initial system with a plan to handle how I will deal with this when I fill the internal HDs up.

Also do you need / use 700 gigs for a scratch disk? Would a smaller faster scratch disk HD be any advantage? I think 1.5 TB HDs are reasonable price point so maybe I could forestall the dilemma for awhile.

Sorry about all the questions, but I really want to get the right stuff from day one, and have a plan.

WOW, I just had an epiphany, just imagine if congress would adopt this concept. Dream, dream, getting excited...............opps...I woke up, now i'm gonna be sad and depressed.:cry Well untill I get me new Mac.

Sam

pathfinder · August 7, 2009

Sam wrote:

Pathfinder,

Thanks for the reply!

I do have a few more questions.

If I understand you correctly you have all your data and apps backed up on your internal HDs. That would mean you only have 1Tb of data storage internally. Do you manage (cull through and delete images) off your internal HDs keeping all images on external backups?

1Tb which only a short time ago seemed so huge will hold me for a little while, but I will fill that up in a relatively short period of time and I am trying to buy / setup the initial system with a plan to handle how I will deal with this when I fill the internal HDs up.

Also do you need / use 700 gigs for a scratch disk? Would a smaller faster scratch disk HD be any advantage? I think 1.5 TB HDs are reasonable price point so maybe I could forestall the dilemma for awhile.

Sorry about all the questions, but I really want to get the right stuff from day one, and have a plan.

WOW, I just had an epiphany, just imagine if congress would adopt this concept. Dream, dream, getting excited...............opps...I woke up, now i'm gonna be sad and depressed.:cry Well untill I get me new Mac.

Sam

Sam,

I set up Lightroom with a new catalog on an annual basis, so the two 1 Tb drives really are dedicated to 2009, presently. Previous image files are on external My Book hard drives currently. It would be nice if they were all on a single drive line, but I could not do that when drives were 500Gb or less. I had hoped to do just that with a Drobo, but my experience was not that positive, as my system seemed to slow waaaaaay down for some strange reason. Uninstalled the Drobe and I was back to normal.

With the advent of 2 Tb drives I may begin to consolidate some of my files. I also want to retry the Drobo when I have more time.

One thing I do notice, is that as I add hard drives, internally or externally, the delay for the system to spin up the drive to access data gets longer. I do not configure all my drives to run continuously, thinking it better to let them spin down if not being accessed. Not sure if this is the best plan or not, but it seems to work for me.

I did not plan to just use one huge Lightroom Catalog for everything - I know folks who do that, but I tend to be more cautious, and felt a Catalog for each annual year would work for me. I will end up with about 20-40K frames a year in a catalog, more or less, depending on a lot of factors.

Bear in mind, Sam, this is not a business for me, but I do not want to risk losing my files either, and I want to be able to find them later as well. DVDs as backup is just not work for this many image files, in my mind anyway. Takes way too long.

I will be interested in hearing other folks solutions to these problems of safe storage and access we all have.

No you do not need a 700Gb scratch disc, I suspect 250Gb is more than adequate. I just sometimes have 1 Gb image files when working with 10 frame panos, and if you have several layer in a psd, they can get very big,very quick. I do know when I used to use a 20Gb HD as a Scratch Disk I would fill it up some times - back when I was using Windows XP and PS 6 or 7 I think. I am not sure what the optimum size for a scratch disk is, I just used what waht left after my partition for my main HD b/u. I wanted one internal had drive main backup as it is faster than an external USB drive

JMichaelK · August 7, 2009

I just ordered the Drobo
I have been looking for something reasonably priced to back up images. I wanted something I could put it in room far away from my other hard drives and would work on a network. Drobo has a server module that you can add the the Drobo drive and hook it right to the network. All this for less than a $1000 (4TB Drobo, Droboserve and UPC back-up) I finally feel like I will have a true back-up system. My original images are initially back-ed up on mirrored hard drives (G-tech) and now they will also be copied to the Drobo. Having lost many hard drives over the years, I need back-up for my back-up to feel safe.

Sam · August 7, 2009

Thanks w.w.webster, and pathfinder.

I am chewing on the info. What do you all think about the LaCie 2Big or 4Big Quatra?

I think I will use the same setup as Pathfinder for the first two HD's. IE: Drive one all apps. Drive two apps, and scratch disk. Drive 3 and 4 raid 0 data storage.

Does it sound reasonable (or doable) to say have 2 1TB (Western Digital Barracuda?) internal HD's set up to run raid 0, and say an external 4Big Quatra with 4 1TB HD's set up up as raid 10?

I am thinking that would give me 2TB of fast read / write data internally and while no one disk would contain a complete file the external 4Big Quatra would provide two separate copies of each image file spread out between 2 HD's.

Sam

pathfinder · August 7, 2009

Just to be clear,

Sam, in my case, the two 1Tb internal data drives are two separate, discrete drives, each a single partition, and not a RAID array of any sort. I just use Lightroom to write files to each of them when ingesting files from my Flash Cards.

The MacPro makes it easy to slide drives in and out, so I will upgrade these to 2 Tb drives later, and migrate the data up to the newer drives as needed.

Drobo hardrive system

Comments