Still struggling w/ OCF

adbsgicom · August 10, 2009

C&C appreciated. The 580ex was at 45-degree relative to the line between my subject and I. But then I end up with the hair shadow near the right eye (as I look at her). The fill seemed to strong (removed too much shadow, it seems, though there is very slight variance in luminance between the sides of her face) but didn't do anything for the shadows that were a real problem. I'm also beginning to think that E-TTL with remotes is a true black art. Sometimes the flashes were very soft and in a few they nearly blew out the entire image. This one was way underexposed initially. Suggestions on positioning and technique are always appreciated.

NateW · August 10, 2009

I'd agree that the flash was too much fill and got a bad shadow next to the eye.
I'd offer that less angle on the light would help the shadow, less flash brightness would too, and on top of that something to soften the flash.

One of the reasons why the eye shadow is so pronounced (IMHO) is that it's such a sharp line! (Also did the same under the chin to neck.)

Since I don't use Canon, I can't speak to e-TTL; Nikon's iTTL is all I've worked with and I've not noticed this kind of problem in most cases. (The ones where there's been an issue I'm not sure it wasn't from trying to over cycle the flash and not letting it get back up to speed before shooting again. Hard to tell after the fact from a wedding shoot....

)

I'm a big fan of iTTL (and I'm sure I'd be one of e-TTL too), but I'd suggest if you're getting such difficult shots that you switch to full manual and set the flash low. This can be risky if you can't trust your display to confirm settings, but a meter could be used in a slow enough setting.

I'm sure someone else has more/better thoughts, so I'd love to hear them, too!
Nate

adbsgicom · August 10, 2009

Thanks. The flash is going through a little 6x8 softbox (on-flash). I need to try a larger box and see how that changes things. Since my model is off at camp and comes home dead-tired, I don't think I'll get much work out of her this week.

RogerLund · August 10, 2009

I'm not sure the goal of the shot. But generally speaking, it's better to shoot down on a subject than have them look down at you. Because of her hair, I would use a longer lens, and try to focus on capturing the face, and the curl's on the sides of her face.

If want some showing her age, I would try for some candids.

My two cents.

Roger Lund

adbsgicom · August 10, 2009

RogerLund wrote:

I'm not sure the goal of the shot. But generally speaking, it's better to shoot down on a subject than have them look down at you. Because of her hair, I would use a longer lens, and try to focus on capturing the face, and the curl's on the sides of her face.

If want some showing her age, I would try for some candids.

This was shot at 70mm; how does the hair figure into the lens length? Because of the depth-compression?

She just had her hair curled for a party that evening, so we took some pictures. Then I took a few with the OCF's to see what I could get. There wasn't much time to really experiment, unfortunately. What I wanted from this, was something portrait-like, but as is obvious, it came off the mark with bad shadowing, and started off underexposed.

Obviously more experimentation and learing to go on my part.

RogerLund · August 10, 2009

Yes, and she has some fine hair on the top that likes to go this and that way. I was thinking that would help.

Post more!

Roger Lund

jeffreaux2 · August 10, 2009

Not being sure of the settings you have used we have to start from scratch. In the future, posting the exif info with the photographs would be very helpful to anyone wanting to offer their thoughts...:D

Ive never used one, but would chance a guess that unless a 6"x8" softbox is within a couple feet max from your subject it is completely a waste of time....and you would be just as well off with a bare flash. I cannot imagine that using it would offer an advantage outdoors as it does not really increase the size of the light source....and THAT.....is how soft light is bourne. Distance....the light sources distance to subject also plays a role in softness. The closer the source is to the subject, the softer the shadows.

(The photo below utilizes ETTL fill with an unmodified 580EXII at camera right. Canon XTi plus STE2 transmitter.)

In any event, what you have demonstrated here is not fill. You seem to have overpowered the ambient light, and your flash has become the keylight. Not a bad thing, but since you say you were only attempting fill....well...you missed by a mile.

(This photograph also utilizes a single 580EXII, but through a 60" shoot-through white umbrella, and usues the flash as a keylight rather than "fill". Canon 50D plus STE2 transmitter.)

Using ETTL for fill isnt difficult at all. The most important part....in my opinion...is being aware of your shadows while you shoot rather than when you unload the memory card. I am of the mind that the lighting in photographs should be transparent, and should never call attention to itself. That is, the portrait should ALWAYS be about the subject....and the lighting should support that end rather than distract from it. This is especially true of fill flash.

(Canon XTi plus shoe mounted unmodified 580EXII)

With fill, remember that you really dont want to knock-out all of those subtle...beautiful...shaping shadows of the natural light. Your goal is to just punch it up a bit, and brighten the eyes. You should not be introducing any "new" shadows from the flash. If you are, then you are simply using too much flash power.

How?:D

My method is to first set my base exposure without flash. You CAN use AV mode here, but MANUAL is preferred. AV can have inconsistancies in exposure from shot to shot especially if you are focusing and then recomposing. So, shoot a few frames to dial in your exposure. My aim is to expose as far to the right of the histogram as I can without overexposing the image. With the exposure set, its time to bring in a bit of fill. Outdoors, be certain that you have enabled the high speed synch (HSS) mode on the 580. Next, check the flash exposure compensation(FEC) by pressing the button in the center of the 580's control dial. With a bare shoe mounted flash Id start in the neighborhood of -1 2/3 FEC.....but often find myself using FEC as low as -3. You will have to chimp some to watch those shadows, but the results are worthwhile. For off camera flash, the same methods apply, but once you have dialed in your exposure and preferred FEC, just try to keep the flash set up the same distance from your subject from shot to shot.

One important note is that too little fill will always.....ALWAYS....looks more pleasing than too much.

(Unmodified 580EXII at camera right fired via STE2)

ETTL fill is really simple....but it takes some practice....

Note: I have said that some of these are unmodified. By that I mean no umbrella....no diffuser. Most of these do utilize gels to match flash to ambient color temperature. THAT....is a whole "other" discussion.

(Shoe mounted, unmodified 580EXII with XTi)

mpaulie · August 11, 2009

Great tips and pointers on fill flash, thanks Jeff!

adbsgicom · August 11, 2009

jeffreaux2 wrote:

Not being sure of the settings you have used we have to start from scratch. In the future, posting the exif info with the photographs would be very helpful to anyone wanting to offer their thoughts...:D

Thanks for all of the information.

Sorry about the exif missing. I thought it came along for the ride with the smugmug link, but realized that I was wrong on that. I'll get that right next time. 70mm, f6.3, ISO 200, 1/60sec; shot in manual on 5Dmk2. Light was only a little above eye-level (I realize that is also less than ideal). No Gels.

There was a key light at 45-degrees, 580 (slave/B). This was set as the slave to the 580 on the hotshoe (master/A). I ran a couple of different ratios 1:4 through 1:8 wanting the bulk of the light to be coming from camera right. Likely that was part of the mistake in this case. The shots were around 7pm on the shady side of our house, so the ambient was getting low.

I wish the flash levels were somehow stored in the exif information; that would be a helpful learning tool.

Thanks again, and I'll see what I can talk her into again after camp. She's completely consumed with the second book in a series, and this will be keeping her from that....

jeffreaux2 · August 11, 2009

adbsgicom wrote:

Thanks for all of the information.

Sorry about the exif missing. I thought it came along for the ride with the smugmug link, but realized that I was wrong on that. I'll get that right next time. 70mm, f6.3, ISO 200, 1/60sec; shot in manual on 5Dmk2. Light was only a little above eye-level (I realize that is also less than ideal). No Gels.

There was a key light at 45-degrees, 580 (slave/B). This was set as the slave to the 580 on the hotshoe (master/A). I ran a couple of different ratios 1:4 through 1:8 wanting the bulk of the light to be coming from camera right. Likely that was part of the mistake in this case. The shots were around 7pm on the shady side of our house, so the ambient was getting low.

I wish the flash levels were somehow stored in the exif information; that would be a helpful learning tool.

Thanks again, and I'll see what I can talk her into again after camp. She's completely consumed with the second book in a series, and this will be keeping her from that....

My advice is to ditch the second flash for now, and get a real good feel for ETTL fill via shoe mounted flash control, and how to "ride" the FEC wheel. Then move on to off camera flash later. Even then, begin with a single source rather than dual......adding a second source later.

If you are trying for fill, then natural light will be the key light.

Still struggling w/ OCF

Comments