Really discouraged....

JAG · September 7, 2009

I have been with smugmug going on 2 years with a pro account. I have over this time not sold anything through the website. ALL of my sales have been locally here through contracted shoots that I have done and are paid here and sometimes printed here (Alaska). I am also a graphic artist and make poster's and DVD covers, ect, which are also contracted and not printed through smug. I have done individual portraits as well as theatrical plays (those have made me money off the site..but not through smug.).

I would like to sell stock downloads and have priced many of my galleries as such. But I also have prints for sale too on things like scenic images. I have a list of people who want me to make a calander of my images (which I have through smugs partner offer) but I find it cumbersome to have to upfront the money for that verses them directly ordering through my site. Not to mention it costs me so much more for shipping. That I guess this is a different problem.

I can average up to 50,000 hits a month on my site from all over the world, yet no sales. And I get all kinds of comments. I advertise my site on google, FB, as well as a dozen other sites around the web.

I have knocked my prices to what I consider rock bottom...yet still no one buys. I know my work is worth it. I have printed lots and lots of things (through smugmug as well as the local printer in my town) and I have sold large prints for over $100 each here in my town. I have marketed myself in my town pretty well for what I am willing to do. I have even gotten several jobs that found my galleries on smug and contacted me personally to do work for them locally.

I just don't get why my smug site does not get any orders directly. Can someone please look and Critique my site. Do keep in mind that I have a sale going on at the moment (although no one is buying...might just be the weekend or I really do suck) and I am going to remove a lot of galleries in the next month. I just want to see if it generates anything to go even lower. But I am just wondering where I am going wrong on sales through this site?

I like smugmug and the flexibility I get with customizations...but wondering if I should downgrade if I am not selling anything actually through the site. My link is in my signature. I do appreciate any time and feedback you can give.

denisegoldberg · September 7, 2009

I suspect that many of us have the same experience as far as sales from our smug sites go. I can't help with any ideas of how to drive people to your site other than making sure it is in your signature, and making sure that when you blog you are giving your readers a way directly into your site.

From a blog standpoint, you have embedded some (very interesting!) photos in your blog, but it looks like you used Blogger's standard insert a photo capability. That doesn't drive anyone to your photo galleries if someone clicks on a photo. I'd recommend that you use HTML to embed your photos, click for details on Adding photos to your blog. That post is part of a larger thread, HOW TO match your blog to your smug site (blogger-specific).

While I don't think it will change your traffic patterns at all, I'd highly recommend updating your smugmug site to make it look more professional. Having pages with no banner, and switching page colors and themes does not provide a professional look. Maybe that doesn't matter to your site viewers, but it means a lot to me. Yes, I know, your viewers are buying your skills as a photographer and not as a web designer. But overall, the only impression most people have of you is from your web site.

I know, I know, I didn't come close to solving the purchase photos problem. But maybe there are some ideas that could be useful.

--- Denise

Sam · September 7, 2009

Denise hit the nail on the head with regard to the look and feel of your site. Also since your asking......i think seeing an advertisement to save $5.00 on a SmugMug account appears chincy, (at least to me), and unprofessional. Remember 99% of the people who visit your site have no interest in a photo web hosting site, and for those who are interested $5.00, or $50.00 won't make a difference.

I have deliberately left the SmugMug logo on my site (my choice) because I like these guys and am happy to let people know who my web hosting company is. I have steered a lot of folks to SmugMug because I believe in this company and believe I am helping both SmugMug and the photographer. I love win / win!

Now more to the meat of your question. I view my web site as a necessity just like a business card. Nobody looks at your business card, calls you up and starts the conversation with "here is my credit card number".

My web site is my portfolio. It allows people / potential clients to see my work, and get a feel for my style and capabilities. It provides credibility. If you think that by simply showing your work, no matter how good, on the INTERNET will lead to tons of sales I believe you are sadly mistaken.

If people have seen your site and are calling you, you have just overcome any questions with regard to quality and style, now you are only talking about the details of the shoot and the budget.

I think you will get more sales from events than from fine art.

OH.....I almost forgot..........why do you have photos of your family for sale? I assume you love em, but why sell them??

Sam

JAG · September 7, 2009

First off...thank you both for your responses and time it took to look. Sam thanks for picking up on the family album snafoo....I could've sworn I made it so they couldn't be bought. Seems I goofed. But no sales were made of them so no harm done. Its now corrected.

I will be revamping the whole site soon and change things to be more consistant. I will keep in mind the things you have suggested. I am not looking for 'tons of sales' necessarily (although that would be nice), but I just am not getting ANY sales directly from the site.

Has anyone seen smuggers use their sites to promote some of the merchendize stuff...like mousepads, t shirts and coffee mugs? I would be interested in maybe designing things like that to run through the site only. Not having to purchase first then sell and ship.

Sam · September 7, 2009

DISCLAIMER: I am not the best photographer in the world.

That said, I am always pleased and humbled by the number of positive comments about my images posted on my web site.

It isn't uncommon to get feed back of stunning and fantastic. To date I haven't sold any fine art prints over the INTERNET. I am not discouraged at all. Before any one would buy a fine art image over the INTERNET they need to know you or have a really good recommendation from a friend.

Art / photos generally need to be seen in person. How many pieces of art have you personally purchased via the INTERNET? Your friends and family?

Ask here and elswhere and see how many are making fine artr sales to unknowns on the INTERNET.

As for merchandise, I view this as a extra, a service for clients to purchase items with their photo or product photo in small quantities for personnel use. Not a money maker. It's way to expensive producing / buying one off to really make a profit. Now if you want to make a real profit on say coffee mugs you need to buy about 100 to 1000. Then the price is reasonable.

Fortunitly since SmugMug is handling the transaction, I can afford to bump the merchandise up a dollor or two and not have to put any time or effort into it yet still be able to offer this to my clients.

Sam

Cygnus Studios · September 7, 2009

Are you using your site to book jobs, or have your customers proof the images through the site?

If not, how are your customers finding you? How are you allowing your customers to proof their images?

For fine art work, have your website in the bio card or price list that is hung near your work.

I don't do a lot of online sales, and that is not my interest, but if you are getting paying customers now, it would seem that it would be pretty easy to direct them to your site.

As Denise mentioned, have your website on everything. Business cards, forum signature, mailings, everything.

bendruckerphoto · September 7, 2009

If you are looking to make fine art sales, you need to have a dedicated website for that. The image on your splash page is a child's portrait. So if I'm arriving looking for landscapes, I'm gone. You could look at making a collage in which each image linked to the respective categories (portraits, events, landscape, etc.) as well.

rteest42 · September 8, 2009

Fortunitly since SmugMug is handling the transaction, I can afford to bump the merchandise up a dollor or two and not have to put any time or effort into it yet still be able to offer this to my clients.

Sam[/quote]

What Sam said...
I looked at your site, and while not bad, I definitely think it could use some cleaning up....

as others mentioned, remove the link to the discount for smugmug at the very least! You want your site to feel like its YOURS not smugmugs... If you converse with someone (another photog, a friend with kids who needs a place to park her pix) share this coupon privately....

and I glanced thru a few of your galleries... they appear to be dumping sites, not galleries (not dump in a bad way--merely they seem more that they were a place to empty your memory card to, as opposed to being carefully culled representations of your trips...)

and spelling...it's important...two errors immediately caught my eye...and its ok, here, where its just us...but if you are SELLING to people, well...

detail-oriented, little fixes, I think...

As I am just getting ready to 'unveil' my site, I may have no business making a peep; but, there you go!

zoomer · September 9, 2009

Go to Naturescapes.com look at the work of the photographers there, compare it to your own. That is what you are competing against for print sales. There are a lot of people out there who do AMAZING work, those are the people who make money at photography...but even they need equally amazing marketing skills to really make significant money.
The truth is that your work is not up to that standard.
Making money at photography is tough, if you are thinking people are just going to find you on Smugmug and buy your prints...that is not going to happen.

Hikin' Mike · September 9, 2009

zoomer wrote:

Go to Naturescapes.com look at the work of the photographers there, compare it to your own. That is what you are competing against for print sales. There are a lot of people out there who do AMAZING work, those are the people who make money at photography...but even they need equally amazing marketing skills to really make significant money.
The truth is that your work is not up to that standard.
Making money at photography is tough, if you are thinking people are just going to find you on Smugmug and buy your prints...that is not going to happen.

Hey zoomer! BTW it's naturescapes.net....not '.com' (NSN).

zoomer · September 10, 2009

Hi Mike, my bad, appreciate the correction

Hikin' Mike wrote:

Hey zoomer! BTW it's naturescapes.net....not '.com' (NSN).

angevin1 · September 10, 2009

Yep. I agree with Denise and Sam, time for a redo/updo, whatever to your site. And I'd venture to say it won't sell one more photo.

I think with exceptional photos/art/etc., you could expect sales if, and only if you are well represented in the marketing of them. The Internet is rife with imagery, much of it mediocre and plenty of it outstanding, but without a name, or a niche and a name AND with no marketing directly to your uniqueness, you will not gain sales.

I use my site here on SM for purely a marketing/visual tool. It allows clients to see my work, the work I did for them, and it allows them to show others the work, which by itself is wonderful marketing by word-of-mouth.

My art, which is fairly raw, is mine. I figure I might luck up and sell something, but what I am doing is working my feet here locally to show my work, sell my work and get my work, my face and my name out as much as I can. I figure eventually, as my work improves, my marketing skills will too and the coalescence will cause me to have better art sales.

Get busy on that Site!:D

bham · September 13, 2009

JAG, a couple things some already pointed out above.

First if you are going to do different types of photography, split it into multiple sites and create names for each. You can just have a landing page and maybe a gallery or two. I have found that showing that you specialize in an area helps. You could actually do this with 1 smugmug account and a few other domanins and landing pages, some coding etc.

Second, I was disappointed in your Wasilla and Hatcher's Pass shots. For someone who has access to this areas' 24/7 I thought you would have a few better shots (and less ok shots). I was up there a few years ago to visit family in Wasilla and I wish I would have had much more time just to take photos while I was there.

I think you really need to get an evaluation of your work, and eliminate the so so and only show the very best. If people think they can easily take their camera and get the same thing, they aren't gonna buy it from you.

Also since nothing is watermark, small version can be screen grabbed. Not good.

Another thing that might help would be to find a few local business' with high traffic count that would be willing to display some of your work. Then print a few awesome shots and display them with your card.

You also have some Austin TX shots in a scenic alaska gallery.

Mohamed.Ghuloom · September 13, 2009

Well, I toke a look at your website and noted the exact same things that others said about the APPEARANCE. Why the navbar is at the bottom of your homepage? different page themes, and some pages don't have the buy button enabled.
Now for the advice, and let me say that I've been on smugmug since 2008 and sold 105 pictures prints and downloads, and let me give you few advices:

First, if you want people to buy online from you, then market the word and emphasize on it as much as possible locally. Like you tell them: "If you need a photographer, then I can do the job for you." tell them as well: "We take great shots for you, then give you a free gallery online so you can share with your friends and let them make fun of you by commenting, and also you can have your photos printed on best quality papers or gift items. You can have it printed on a big canvas and hang it on your wall. All that is online with no hassle." Try repeating that to every potential client, and everytime you'll get better at it. Make them used to the idea.
Make a day specially waking up from morning and visiting companies just to promote your online features. "Hello, my name is Mohamed Ghuloom and I'm from LENS Photography. I was wondering if you need a photographer? -:for what? -:for anything, advertisements, brochures, flyers, employee shots. The best thing about LENS Photography is that if you are looking for a photo for your company, you can go to the website and search, and find a suitable photo and buy the download of it online. That will save you the hassle of hiring a photographer and paying him extra money."
Companies usually will not navigate through your galleries, they don't have the time for it. Art lovers will . So keep a search bar on top right corner of your website. Make it easier for people to find what they need. get superb at keywording your photos. Take a look at my website and the Browse section to see how many options the visitors have.
They want their photo? say it immediately: "I will put it on LENS Photography, and you can buy it online.". This works great for events, specially if you take great unusual photos for them. Take a look at my BIC gallery in events. http://www.lens-bh.com/events
Don't lower your price, that's the biggest mistake smuggers do when they lose hope. If they see your prices low, they take you low. Have your prices high, and see how people will buy (emmm, gotta be a poet :P). People unfortunately like prestige. and after all it's your hard work, brainstorming, shooting, lightrooming

Now let me tell you my online stories on how few of my customers bought their pictures.

Went to a wedding, toke pictures, told them i'll put the pictures on the website, and you can buy beautiful prints from the website itself. (be positive while saying this and smile, most of the times they take this as an advantage, and if they like the photos, they will not care about the shipping cost.)
Went to a circus event, and before the people come, I got permission to get inside and shoot and met the manager of the circus, he asked me: "For free?" I told him: "I wish , but i work for a photography company and it's not in my hand. We put them online in a gallery, and customers buy online." He said: "How much?" I told him:"BD 2". He asked when the pictures will be available? I told him: "it will take a week or so until we work on them, etc...". Got his business card and started private shooting. They bought around 40 pictures.

BeachBill · September 21, 2009

Ask here and elswhere and see how many are making fine art sales to unknowns on the INTERNET.

if you are thinking people are just going to find you on Smugmug and buy your prints...that is not going to happen.

I'm really not sure why, but I have been receiving orders for my fine art images (landscape, scenic, architecture) on smugmug from complete strangers. Even large canvas prints. These are images that I do not market in any way (yet).

Photos that I do market (my woodie images) via flyers handed out at car shows have had some sales but not many due mainly to the fact the most of the woodie owners are not the type of people who use the Internet or shop online.

Up to now, photography has been a hobby, but I'm getting ready to take it up a notch. To do so, I believe I will need to simplify my web presence to make it easier for people to find the images they are looking for. Part of this will be to only showcase photos that people would really be interested in buying. I'm still not complete sure how to narrow the images down to the sellable ones only, but I believe I need to find people who don't have an emotional attachment to me

to help with this process. I think perhaps the original poster needs to do the same thing if they want to have a chance at successfully selling fine art images online. Use the KISS principle.

Hope this helps.

kdog · September 22, 2009

JAG, honestly your site isn't set up at all for people browsing for images. Starting with the front page, there's a cute picture of what I assume is your kid. Unfortunately, people aren't interested in buying pictures of your kid. So you've set the wrong tone right off the bat. You have a huge list of galleries, many of which are travel photos complete with family members and friends. If somebody is looking for fine-art landscapes, they're not going to wade through somebody's travel snapshots looking for a gem to hang on their wall.

Now I realize that there may be some galleries in there that are geared more for selling pictures that I didn't get to. But that's the point. People spend 15 seconds evaluating a website. If they don't see what they want in that amount of time, they move on to the next site. If you expect to sell photos on your site, you need a major revamping. Either put your personal photos on a different site, or put them in hidden galleries on this one.

Regards,
-joel

Really discouraged....

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