need new external flash for canon

SweetScenePhoto · October 29, 2009

Hi.
I'm new to professional photography, but realize that I need a better external flash in order to take inside action photos -say for a youth's basketball game.

My built-in flash works well with close-up, but I'd like to use my zoom lens - 75mm-300mm.

My budget is kinda small (if I get portrait sessions or sell more prints - then I'll have more money).

what external flash do you recommend? :dunno
thanks!

www.sweetscenephoto.com

Scott_Quier · October 29, 2009

- Hi. Welcome!

It sounds like you are asking about dedicated flash .... either those manufactured by your camera manufacturer or others (like the Sigma 530 DG Super). So, it would help a lot if you would also include what you are shooting with (what's your camera(s)) and what you want to shoot (other than youth BBall). Another help would be a bit more specific information at to your budget. Just saying "kinda small" is not a clue.

Lots of people here who would love to help, but you gotta help us help you.

SweetScenePhoto wrote:

Hi.
I'm new to professional photography, but realize that I need a better external flash in order to take inside action photos -say for a youth's basketball game.

My built-in flash works well with close-up, but I'd like to use my zoom lens - 75mm-300mm.

My budget is kinda small (if I get portrait sessions or sell more prints - then I'll have more money).

what external flash do you recommend?
thanks!

www.sweetscenephoto.com

cmason · October 29, 2009

For Canon, your choices are the 580EX or the 430EX.

I recommend the 580EXII. It is not your budget flash, but it will be the workhorse flash for a very long time. The 580 is more powerful than the 430, and offers built in IR remote flash control that would require an ST-E2 if you bought the 430. (unless you have a 7d)

If not that, the 430EX is fantastic (I have two). If you ever wish to do off-camera flash, then the ST-E2 would be required with this. However, if you get a 7D body, it comes with the remote flash function (dam you Canon)

SweetScenePhoto · October 29, 2009

Thank you much!
I current shoot with a Canon EOS Rebel XSi. I have the standard 18-55mm lens and 75-300mm zoom lens.

I've noticed that when taking photos indoors (say basketball court or school classroom) that they are not as crisp and clear when I use the zoom lens (farther away from the subject) and the standard built-in flash that came with my camera. I have taken action shots of a local Kickboxing class and noticed that the quality is not what I would like and that the flash needs to be upgraded.
I shoot on-location and usually action (sports) photography - using my zoom lens.

the portrait stuff I shoot is usually upclose and the built-in flash with "regular" lens seems to do just fine (for the time being).

My budget would be in the low $100s - guessing the most would be $300-$400. I've been looking online and have found that for the same product - the cost can change dramatically (amazon.com compared to bestbuy.com - for example).

There is just no store where I can "try-out" the flash myself - bestbuy is the worst and Ritz Camera (a really good store) has closed it's doors.

www.sweetscenephoto.com

Scott_Quier · October 29, 2009

The EF-530 DG Super E-TTL II Shoe Mount Flash for Canon EOS is a very good flash and in your price range ($220). An alternative is the Canon 430EX II Speedlite TTL Shoe-Mount Flash which comes in at $250. I would actually recommend you buy it on-line from either B&H (the link) or from Adorama.com. Both are very reputable stores and you will not have any issues.

Either of these will fill the bill for you.

As to the lack of "crisp and clear" - this might be more of an issue with shutter speed and/or your choice of lens. Neither of the two lenses you reference are stellar performers, especially at wider apertures.

SweetScenePhoto · October 29, 2009

Question for Scott
Scott -
Thank you so much. I'll look into what you recommended.

I did notice that when I photographed the kickboxing class in the dark - all was "crisp & clear", but when the lights were on - the "focus" went away.
I know that I need to learn more of the technical side of photography - and I'm enrolling in classes.

What lens would you recommend for an indoor high school basketball game - where the photographer might be sitting in the stands (cause they don't allow people on the side-lines).

thank you so much!

Scott_Quier · October 30, 2009

SweetScenePhoto wrote:

Scott -
Thank you so much. I'll look into what you recommended.

I did notice that when I photographed the kickboxing class in the dark - all was "crisp & clear", but when the lights were on - the "focus" went away.
I know that I need to learn more of the technical side of photography - and I'm enrolling in classes.

What lens would you recommend for an indoor high school basketball game - where the photographer might be sitting in the stands (cause they don't allow people on the side-lines).

thank you so much!

Disclaimer: I'm not a sports shooter and have not shot any BBall. So, take all of the following with a grain of salt.

Sharp images are the result of a combination of a number of factors. Among them:

Getting a stable/still camera. This can mean using a tripod (not so will liked in a HS Gym stands ), a mono-pod, or just very good hand-holding technique.
Good shutter speeds. Action shots require faster shutter speeds to stop the action. If you can't stop the action, you are going to get blurred players - not a goodness.
Stopping action in darker environs with faster shutter speeds requires a "fast" lens (or higher ISO and you can only go so high with the ISO on a Rebel before the image noise becomes objectionable). This means the maximum aperture needs to be as large as you can afford. The cost goes up with larger apertures because the size (diameter) of the glass elements in a faster lens is larger. It is much more difficult to accurately grind a large glass element than it is a smaller one.
Good, fast, accurate (is that redundant with good?) focus is also required. Fast because the players are moving about the court quickly.

As for lens recommendations, I would think any of the following might be a good place to start:

EF 70-200mm f/2.8L USM - $1,330
EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM - $1,799
Sigma 70-200mm f/2.8 II EX DG APO Macro HSM AF - $800
Tamron 70-200mm f/2.8 Di LD (IF) Macro AF - $680

The Canon lenses are "cream of the crop" lenses; they are fast, they focus quickly, and the optics are "to die for". The f/2.8 is about as good as it gets on a zoom lens. The IS variant is nice (but, as lenses go, quite heavy). The IS will do nothing to stop the action of the players, but it does tend to help control camera shake/vibration of which you will get quite a bit when shooting in the stands.

The Sigma is very well thought of by those who use them (of course

). I've not used one so I can't offer any real comments as to optical quality. I do know the build is awesome.

The Tamron is another alternative. I've actually held one of these in my hand and shot a few frames with it. They have a reputation for very good optics. The build is less than the others - build mostly out of some very, very hard plastic (I have the Tamron 28-75 made from the same material and have had this lens for 5+ years - no need to worry about that), but I've read and seen a bit of wobble in the lens barrels when it's extended. The focus is slower than any of the others listed here and may be too slow for shooting BBall. Not so important when shooting sports, the AF is also quite noisy - at least it was on the copy I tested.

I say that the 70-200 is a place to start. It may turn out that 200mm is not long enough to get the job done. You have your 75-300 you can use to help you decide. The above prices may be a bit scary (correction: They ARE scary) - but you really do get what you pay for. I know (and DAMHIK

). When you cheap out on glass, you end up either paying for that choice as long as you own that lens or you buy something else to replace it.

There is also the option of shooting with one or more primes (fixed focal length lenses). I have no experience shooting with longer primes so I really can't recommend any specific lenses. But, I can say that primes, when compared to even great zooms, tend to be faster (wider maximum aperture), sharper at all apertures, and lighter. These, and others, are the advantages of prime lenses. And, when comparing optical performance, you can get get a lot more bang for the buck with primes. The trade-off is that primes are not as convenient as zooms - you may find that you are swapping lenses a bit.

As a final thought, I might recommend you work on your technique a bit to determine if this might be the source of a major portion of your "crisp and clear" issue. Keeping the camera steady and getting a good focus - that would be the start of solving the problem. If you aren't already, try shooting at ISO 800 and see if that doesn't help you get your shutter speeds up where they need to be. Oh, and shooting under flourscent or Hg-vapor lights, you need to keep the shutter speed below 1/125 or you will get weird color effects in your photos - but that's a discussion for another thread (in fact it is in another thread).

DoctorIt · October 30, 2009

Hi Sweetscene - as this is more of a discussion and inquiry, I'm moving it out of the flea market and into the cameras forum. When you've narrowed down what you need, please put a new post in the appropriate flea market section.

Thanks,

paddler4 · October 30, 2009

take a look at Lou Jone's Speedlites and Speedlights (or maybe the other way around). It has a very clear explanation of how modern TTL flashes work, along with loads of very helpful explanations of how to achieve various effects.

rpcrowe · October 31, 2009

Here's what probbaly happened...

SweetScenePhoto wrote:

Scott -

I did notice that when I photographed the kickboxing class in the dark - all was "crisp & clear", but when the lights were on - the "focus" went away.

What probably happened was not a problem with your focus but with your shutter speed. You are trying to do a job without the proper tools.

When the venue was dark, the flash acted as your shutter. An electronic flash has a very short duration and will freeze your subject even when you are shooting at a very show shutter speed.

However, when the lights were on, there was enough light to register the moving image which was not stopped by your slow shutter speed.

There are two, actually three ways this can be improved.

1. Using a more powerful flash will allow you to shoot at a smaller f/stop and therefore the flash will overcome any imagery from ambient light.

2. Using a lens that is faster which will allow you to use a higher shutter speed. However, you will probably not get a high enough speed to stop the action. Shoot at the highest ISO your camera will allow. Noise suppression software is a help here.

The best way:

3. Use both a more powerful flash AND a lens that is faster so you can shoot at both a higher shutter speed with the flash. You can go up to 1/250 second without High Speed Sync (HSS) however at speeds higher than 1/250 second, you need HSS. This cuts down the light from your flash considerably - there is no free lunch in photography.

Again, shoot at highest ISO possible.

AlbertZeroK · November 1, 2009

one topic not covered is the IR (InfraRed) AF (Auto Focus) Assist which is built into some flashes - the IR light helps the auto focus.

I would also suggest picking up the Magic Lantern DVD for your camera, they do a good job explaining the camera and settings - I love mine and have them for all three cameras I own.

I agree, glass is the best bet, but a 70-200 IS USM lens like I have is pricey - but it absolutely rocks!

ziggy53 · November 2, 2009

AlbertZeroK wrote:

one topic not covered is the IR (InfraRed) AF (Auto Focus) Assist which is built into some flashes - the IR light helps the auto focus.

...

I know that it is a common belief that some cameras use an IR wavelength for focus assist but, as far as I know, no dSLR or SLR related flash uses IR technology for AF assist.

Part of the reason is that IR wavelengths focus at a different point than visible light, meaning that any true infrared illumination would never be much help for visible light photography and focus.

Instead, manufacturers use a deep red beam, very much visible, and normally the beam has a collimated pattern as well. Deep red is not as sensitive to human eyes and our eyes recover quickly to the color. This tends to reduce blinking which could result from a more moderate visible wavelength. The pattern is used to provide something for the AF sensor to work against when dealing with subjects that lack much texture or contrast.

You are very correct that an AF assist light really does help with both AF speed and AF accuracy in low light conditions.

need new external flash for canon

Comments