Customers have to sign up with SM to order cards???

Lou Gonzalez · November 10, 2009

Am I understanding this right? I set prices on my cards, logged out and did not see a way to order cards. I then go back to you the announcement and it says:

Now,if you prefer, you can browse the large previews on cards.smugmug.com, choose your favorite, and make a card straight from there.
Anyone can now order one of your finished card designs, whether they have a SmugMug account or not. However, only SmugMug subscribers can create their own cards, and they can only use their own images.

So it looks like the only option is to go to cards.smugmug.com and order from there. But then if they're not a smugmug user, they have to register to order? :huh

Are you serious? Please tell me I'm wrong. Please please tell me I am totally confused and I have it all wrong.

Otherwise forcing customers to sign up to a service just to order is not going to work. Why would we treat this any different than prints?

I'm confused right???

Andy · November 10, 2009

Lou Gonzalez wrote:

I'm confused right???

Yes.

We've never, ever said that customers / buyers have to register. Nor would we.

You make the card for your customer. You put it in a gallery and pro price it. And sell it like any other print.

Does this help?

Lou Gonzalez · November 10, 2009

Andy wrote:

Yes.

We've never, ever said that customers / buyers have to register. Nor would we.

You make the card for your customer. You put it in a gallery and pro price it. And sell it like any other print.

Does this help?

Ah... so I create the card ahead of time? They don't create it themselves using our photos? Hmm that's different. I thought I'd see a "Buy a Card" option under the Buy button.

No offense Andy, but this seems like a strange way to offer cards to clients. Most services allow customers to choose the photo they want on the card. They choose it, not us. I have 155 photos from a recent potos session. How would I know (ahead of time) which of those photos they want on a card, and which style? The process seems clunky.

Or am I confused again? I'm really tired today. Maybe it's just me.

And what is up with this web page? I got to this from the card section by clicking on "Make this Card".

http://smugmug.com/photos/tools.mg?cardID=671851855&Type=Album&tool=newcard

To me this makes it sound like they have to register to continue. ???

Is there another way to get them cards other than funneling them through cards.smugmug.com? All my branding is lost when I send them there.

Andy · November 10, 2009

Lou Gonzalez wrote:

Ah... so I create the card ahead of time? They don't create it themselves using our photos? Hmm that's different. I thought I'd see a "Buy a Card" option under the Buy button.

you see 'create a card' when you're logged in - it's been this way for 2years...

No offense Andy, but this seems like a strange way to offer cards to clients. Most services allow customers to choose the photo they want on the card. They choose it, not us. I have 155 photos from a recent potos session. How would I know (ahead of time) which of those photos they want on a card, and which style? The process seems clunky.
And what is up with this web page? I got to this from the card section by clicking on "Make this Card".

http://smugmug.com/photos/tools.mg?cardID=671851855&Type=Album&tool=newcard

To me this makes it sound like they have to register to continue. ???

Is there another way to get them cards other than funneling them through cards.smugmug.com? All my branding is lost when I send them there.

YOU make the card, not the customer. That's your page. Your card creator. That part hasn't changed in two years (well, except for us adding a couple hundred new designs).

Andy · November 10, 2009

Lou Gonzalez wrote:

Is there another way to get them cards other than funneling them through cards.smugmug.com? All my branding is lost when I send them there.

Lou

http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=76819

right on the front page of this very forum

Howzat?

Lou Gonzalez · November 10, 2009

Andy wrote:

you see 'create a card' when you're logged in - it's been this way for 2years...
YOU make the card, not the customer. That's your page. Your card creator. That part hasn't changed in two years (well, except for us adding a couple hundred new designs).

No kidding?! (insert humorous sarcasm)

HAHA! I'm obviously not communicating properly.

OK here goes. I know I can create a card. I've done it. I know that as an owner I have this ability. But I want to enable my clients to create one themselves, like all of the other services out there. Do you follow me? I thought that as a customer they could do this.

Again, treating this product like any other. People right now can order 4x6 post cards. Allow them access to the card creator. Why not? It's a bummer that you aren't allowing customers to do this. Too bad. Hopefully someday.

Andy · November 10, 2009

Lou Gonzalez wrote:

No kidding?! (insert humorous sarcasm)

HAHA! I'm obviously not communicating properly.

OK here goes. I know I can create a card. I've done it. I know that as an owner I have this ability. But I want to enable my clients to create one themselves, like all of the other services out there. Do you follow me? I thought that as a customer they could do this.

Again, treating this product like any other. People right now can order 4x6 post cards. Allow them access to the card creator. Why not? It's a bummer that you aren't allowing customers to do this. Too bad. Hopefully someday.

Lou, I follow you. It's not something that your visitors can do.

I'm not aware of other pro sites like ours that have card configuring for your customers, would love to see them!

Anyhow,we just announced this year that you can make the card and pro price it.

I hope this helps!

Lou Gonzalez · November 10, 2009

Andy wrote:

Lou, I follow you. It's not something that your visitors can do.

I'm not aware of other pro sites like ours that have card configuring for your customers, would love to see them!

Seriously??? I mean there are tons of places out there where customers build cards online themselves. Kodak Gallery, MPIX, Shutterfly, Snapfish, the list goes on. All of those sites allows visitors to choose an image in a gallery and make them into a card using an online card creation tool just like yours. Seems so basic to me. No offense, but it's just a touch unnerving that you guys didn't catch that.

I've been shooting for a while now and even to this day, I often can't predict which images my clients favor most. I'm not a mind reader. I tell my wife that all the time.

So that's why it makes so much sense to let them to choose the image they want and create the card. That's the model that is prevalent today. They do it at Walmart for petes sake!

Especially with so many card choices now, how in the world would I know which one they liked the most? Anyways it's a moot point.

Thanks for listening to my rant!

Andy · November 10, 2009

Lou Gonzalez wrote:

No offense, but it's just a touch unnerving that you guys didn't catch that.

Lou, can you use those sites as a professional, make your photos available in a secure manner, and allow customers to create and purchase a card at a marked up price, then be paid for that transaction?

I don't think so, but if I'm wrong please show me.

Lou, we're fully aware that you can go to Walmart, Shutterfly, Snapfish, and other consumer outlets and make a card.

But those aren't pro photograpahy sites.
One day we may have this ability, but we don't right now, I'm very, very sorry.

mrcoons · November 11, 2009

I understand where Lou is coming from but I much prefer it this way. I want to control my product, most of my customers probably prefer it that way.

I've already updated my page where I sell cards with this new information (http://www.musicman5photos.com/My-SmugMug-Creations/Cards/3861601_cWbgK) but still have to update my sample cards with some of the new templates.

Once I've done that I will send an email to my customer list informing them of the new cards they can choose from.

This will work very well for me, thanks Smugmug!!!

AnneMcBean · November 11, 2009

mrcoons wrote:

I understand where Lou is coming from but I much prefer it this way. I want to control my product, most of my customers probably prefer it that way.

I've already updated my page where I sell cards with this new information (http://www.musicman5photos.com/My-SmugMug-Creations/Cards/3861601_cWbgK) but still have to update my sample cards with some of the new templates.

Once I've done that I will send an email to my customer list informing them of the new cards they can choose from.

This will work very well for me, thanks Smugmug!!!

Hi,

Thanks for weighing in. I do have a question for you: How do your clients indicate which design they like at cards.smugmug.com? We'd like to make it easy for pros, and I'm trying to wrap my head around the two main uses cases:

A) Send them to cards.smugmug.com to find a template.

Show a slideshow on your own page (with designs pulled from your site or from cards.smugmug.com).

In either case, the customer will have at least dozens of designs to choose from and I'm not sure how best to communicate which one they'd like! Ideas? Cards.smugmug.com does have Share buttons so they could send you an email with the selected template inside, or copy a link to it. But a slideshow on your site with 100 images would be difficult communication-wise, I would think?

I'm the card wrangler here at SmugMug and just trying to figure out how to make this work best for our pros! If there's something that would make the process easier, I welcome feedback.

-Anne
SmugMug Order Queen

smilenj · November 11, 2009

Consumer vs Pro?

Andy wrote:

Lou, can you use those sites as a professional, make your photos available in a secure manner, and allow customers to create and purchase a card at a marked up price, then be paid for that transaction?

I don't think so, but if I'm wrong please show me.

Lou, we're fully aware that you can go to Walmart, Shutterfly, Snapfish, and other consumer outlets and make a card.

But those aren't pro photograpahy sites.
One day we may have this ability, but we don't right now, I'm very, very sorry.

Andy - can you explain why its not possible to offer the clients the ability to build their own cards? Why would pro sites not offer a feature that is so prevalent on the consumer side? Is is a technical thing or a policy questions.

Thanks,

Joey

smilenj · November 11, 2009

Suggestion

AnneMcBean wrote:

Hi,

Thanks for weighing in. I do have a question for you: How do your clients indicate which design they like at cards.smugmug.com? We'd like to make it easy for pros, and I'm trying to wrap my head around the two main uses cases:

A) Send them to cards.smugmug.com to find a template.

Show a slideshow on your own page (with designs pulled from your site or from cards.smugmug.com).

In either case, the customer will have at least dozens of designs to choose from and I'm not sure how best to communicate which one they'd like! Ideas? Cards.smugmug.com does have Share buttons so they could send you an email with the selected template inside, or copy a link to it. But a slideshow on your site with 100 images would be difficult communication-wise, I would think?

I'm the card wrangler here at SmugMug and just trying to figure out how to make this work best for our pros! If there's something that would make the process easier, I welcome feedback.

-Anne
SmugMug Order Queen

Hi Anne -

A couple suggestions:

* Biggest thing - allow clients to make their own cards. But this has been said

* But until then - name the cards (i.e. Blue Snowflake, Green plaid, etc) so that my clients can easily tell me the card they want

* Create a "for clients" card gallery - Remove the "make this card" button and the line of text that mentions it. That would allow me to point clients to that page to choose from the complete list of cards without confusing them.

Thanks for asking,

Joey

Andy · November 11, 2009

smilenj wrote:

Andy - can you explain why its not possible to offer the clients the ability to build their own cards? Why would pro sites not offer a feature that is so prevalent on the consumer side? Is is a technical thing or a policy questions.

Thanks,

Joey

We may consider changing the card maker, in the future... right now, this is the way it was designed.

mrcoons · November 11, 2009

AnneMcBean wrote:

Hi,

Thanks for weighing in. I do have a question for you: How do your clients indicate which design they like at cards.smugmug.com? We'd like to make it easy for pros, and I'm trying to wrap my head around the two main uses cases:

A) Send them to cards.smugmug.com to find a template.

Show a slideshow on your own page (with designs pulled from your site or from cards.smugmug.com).

In either case, the customer will have at least dozens of designs to choose from and I'm not sure how best to communicate which one they'd like! Ideas? Cards.smugmug.com does have Share buttons so they could send you an email with the selected template inside, or copy a link to it. But a slideshow on your site with 100 images would be difficult communication-wise, I would think?

I'm the card wrangler here at SmugMug and just trying to figure out how to make this work best for our pros! If there's something that would make the process easier, I welcome feedback.

-Anne
SmugMug Order Queen

My thought were to send them to the template page and
I was going to create a contact form and have the customer tell me:

Which size of card they want.
Which gallery the template is (thank you, Christmas etc) in.
The number of the template. If there are 28 templates in the gallery and they would supply a number 1 thru 28. It the templates had a more visible name that would be a big help.
The photos they want me to use. Gallery/file number.

I'll insert the link to this form in my instructions on the Card page.
When they complete the form it gets emailed to me and then I go to work.

I'll try to make my form as detailed as I can but I'm sure someone will have a problem with it!

Edit:

Not sure I've completely covered the bases here but it's been a long and not all that great a day!
Anyway here is the order form I created (if anyone is interested):
http://www.tfaforms.com/rest/forms/view/126597

takeflightphoto · November 11, 2009

AnneMcBean wrote:

Hi,

...............................

I'm the card wrangler here at SmugMug and just trying to figure out how to make this work best for our pros! If there's something that would make the process easier, I welcome feedback.

-Anne
SmugMug Order Queen

Just like every other product, the customer selects the image. They click "Buy"...they are taken to the list of products that the Pro has chosen to offer. One selection is "5x7 card" (or whatever other sizes offered). They click a Button next to the card selection. Diverted to the page of card templates. They choose a card template. Click "accept". Back to the cart to say how many. Keep shopping, another picture, another template. I'm nottageek, so I don't know the programming involved, but it seems no different that being diverted to make a crop at checkout. You are forced to do it. With a card, force them to select the template.

jon

Jon Lyksett
Take Flight Photography

timk519 · November 11, 2009

AnneMcBean wrote:

I'm the card wrangler here at SmugMug and just trying to figure out how to make this work best for our pros! If there's something that would make the process easier, I welcome feedback.

Throwing some ideas out there:

the customer needs a way to select the card and the image(s) they want to have combined. The order of what's being picked shouldn't be important.
once the card/image(s) are selected - if the customer is 'building' the card, then they do whatever they do and complete the process
otherwise if the pro is building the card, then there needs to be a way within SM for the customer to send their choices to the pro, after which the pro completes the process.

In any situation, requiring the customer or pro to use out-of-band communication like email makes the experience less seamless, is more work for both the customer and the pro (which means more time spent on both sides and more opportunities for error), and provides an opportunity for "issues" to rear their ugly heads.

timgangloff · November 11, 2009

Let the customer make the card
I don't know, but I thought the whole new idea was to allow customers to create their own cards. I know we have been able to do it for quite some time, so I am not sure what is new, other than a few new designs.

I'd really like to be able to allow customers to design their own. Heck, some of my customers might be better at design than the photographer and may want the images cropped in a way that I did not think of or imagine. Part of the design process comes form actually being able to manipulate the images and see what they will look like on the card. As it now, the customer can not do that, and that is not good.

I agree that the process as it is now is too cumbersome to sell cards. If this is the right way, then why is smugmug trying to roll out packages? I thought smugmug was rolling out packages to fix the current way some people sell packages which is through a bunch of work-arounds and outside payment collections. Currently, we can do packages, but it involves a lot of outside smugmug communication and payments and the work arounds are a pain. And most likely, these work-arounds cut smugmug out of their cut of the print sales. If I am going to do all of this work for the customer, then I will probably order them myself and cut smugmug out of their cut on these too. Is there a reason not to do that?

I really don't care what other sites do or how they do it. We are a business partner and I think that if some of the pros want it to work this way, then it should be considered and at least made an option of those who want to set it up that way.

timk519 wrote:

Throwing some ideas out there:
the customer needs a way to select the card and the image(s) they want to have combined. The order of what's being picked shouldn't be important.

once the card/image(s) are selected - if the customer is 'building' the card, then they do whatever they do and complete the process

otherwise if the pro is building the card, then there needs to be a way within SM for the customer to send their choices to the pro, after which the pro completes the process.

In any situation, requiring the customer or pro to use out-of-band communication like email makes the experience less seamless, is more work for both the customer and the pro (which means more time spent on both sides and more opportunities for error), and provides an opportunity for "issues" to rear their ugly heads.

AnneMcBean · November 11, 2009

timgangloff wrote:

I don't know, but I thought the whole new idea was to allow customers to create their own cards. I know we have been able to do it for quite some time, so I am not sure what is new, other than a few new designs.

We more than tripled our designs this year, and added designs for other occasions that pros requested: thank yous, save the dates, graduation, etc.

timgangloff wrote:

I'd really like to be able to allow customers to design their own.

Us too, but we're not there yet. There are a lot of features we'd love to add and we're still evaluating where this request falls in line in terms of priority.

The new features we added with this latest release make the current process much more streamlined for pros:

- You can now price and sell finished cards through the shopping cart, instead of doing a google checkout workaround. This includes the very simple cards our pros sell bunches of like blank-in-the-middle cards as well as elaborate cards they design themselves, or ones they use our templates to create.

- If a customer chooses a template from browsing cards.smugmug.com , you no longer have to sift through the card maker to locate that template. Instead, you can click "Make a Card" underneath the template on cards.smugmug.com and we'll load it up in the card maker for you and save you the hassle.

timgangloff wrote:

it should be considered and at least made an option of those who want to set it up that way.

As I mentioned, we're definitely considering it but we knew it wouldn't happen for this holiday season so we decided to roll out some incremental improvements to make things much easier for pros. Many, many pros already sell cards through SmugMug and this really will speed up their workflow, even if it's not a perfect solution yet.

We're thrilled about the new designs and at the very least hope our customers appreciate having them for their personal cards.

Thanks very much for your feedback. We love to hear it!

-Anne

Andy · November 11, 2009

timgangloff wrote:

I am not sure what is new, other than a few new designs.

This is the first year cards could be pro-priced, in addition to the stuff Anne mentions above.

timgangloff wrote:

then it should be considered and at least made an option of those who want to set it up that way.

Of course we'll consider it

And, add your voice, here, too: http://smugmug.uservoice.com

Thanks!

Lou Gonzalez · November 11, 2009

takeflightphoto wrote:

Just like every other product, the customer selects the image. They click "Buy"...they are taken to the list of products that the Pro has chosen to offer. One selection is "5x7 card" (or whatever other sizes offered). They click a Button next to the card selection. Diverted to the page of card templates. They choose a card template. Click "accept". Back to the cart to say how many. Keep shopping, another picture, another template. I'm nottageek, so I don't know the programming involved, but it seems no different that being diverted to make a crop at checkout. You are forced to do it. With a card, force them to select the template.

jon

Jon Lyksett
Take Flight Photography

Man I feel so much better that I'm not alone on this! I really feel that customers should be designing the cards themselves, not us. That way they get the card style they want, the image they want on it, the text they want on it all without having to submit a request to us. Could you imagine if we sold prints this way (getting a request, and then having to build their order)? Oy!

Power to the people. Let them design their own cards!

Andy · November 11, 2009

Lou Gonzalez wrote:

Man I feel so much better that I'm not alone on this! I really feel that customers should be designing the cards themselves, not us. That way they get the card style they want, the image they want on it, the text they want on it all without having to submit a request to us. Could you imagine if we sold prints this way (getting a request, and then having to build their order)? Oy!

Power to the people. Let them design their own cards!

thanks for the awesome feedback, Lou!

Lou Gonzalez · November 11, 2009

Andy wrote:

thanks for the awesome feedback, Lou!

Andy... I know that I bug the crap out of you...

. I get a bit critical (I'd like to call it passionate) about stuff but you're always gracious about it. That's whats so cool about you.

We gotta grab some coffee sometime if you're ever in the Upstate NY area. Seriously.

Thanks!

Customers have to sign up with SM to order cards???

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