SmugMug Post-Production

antsmarching · November 21, 2009

Everyone

I an new to SmugMug, have been using Phanfare for over 5 years now and have an enormous collection of photos and videos which I am in the processing of transferring over.

I like all of the features of SmugMug, but really miss the Phanfare Client software for organization, sorting, tagging, deleting, hiding of my photos. I find the web interface of SmugMug to be tedious.

I have been trying to use IMatch, for the post=production work, but have not been successful in getting the thumbnails of the photos which have been already been uploaded to my SmugMug account (via my Eye-Fi card).
(I get this error: Fatal Parsing Error: Cannot continue to get value for attribute: AlbumURL)

So my question to you all is: How do you guys perfrom your post production tasks? Do you do it through the browser interface? Something else?

PLEASE HELP!

Thank you!

Alex

SamirD · November 21, 2009

It depends on what your workflow requirements are. There's features in SM that allow some post in SM, but for most photographers, their post is completely outside of SM.

I do primarily event photography, so my requirement is speed. I must have photos online within 72 hours or I lose 80% of the ability to have sales. But I also have high volume of shots, sometimes as many as 2000 in a weekend with a 90% keep rate. With this type of volume, the upload takes as much time as the culling, so that's the first step.

Once my photos are on SM, I have to verify that they made it. This step can be tedious. Once that is complete, the single gallery is split up into the respective event galleries. Then each gallery is worked on individually for rotation and culling. Sometimes I play with the color effect if I see a particular image can use it.

Because of the volume of shots, if something isn't perfect, it's simply culled. No one is really going to miss the shot. That's the limit of my post. Each gallery runs through Bay Photo for printing, so the final results are quite good.

antsmarching · November 21, 2009

My typical workflow is as follows:

1. Take photos, ranging from 50 to 150 on a daily basis.
2. Allow them to upload automatically from my Eye-Fi card. (If they don't finish uploading while in the camera, I put the card in my USB reader to allow it to complete.)
3. The next morning, look through the photos deleting the "bad" ones. (Most of the time I just hide them.)
4. Share the photos by that morning.

I grew very used to the Phanfare Client as it worked seamlessly with my work flow. It was quick too. The online post doesn't work for me.

I think also part of thing that complicates things is the use of my Eye-Fi card....which I like. If were to use Lightroom to organize/delete/hide and then upload, without using Eye-Fi, that would probably allow me to have a similar workflow.

SamirD - What software do pros typically use to do their post?

SamirD · November 21, 2009

antsmarching wrote:

My typical workflow is as follows:

1. Take photos, ranging from 50 to 150 on a daily basis.
2. Allow them to upload automatically from my Eye-Fi card. (If they don't finish uploading while in the camera, I put the card in my USB reader to allow it to complete.)
3. The next morning, look through the photos deleting the "bad" ones. (Most of the time I just hide them.)
4. Share the photos by that morning.

Your workflow is almost identical to mine, except that the upload process for me is a chore to saturate all three of my cable modems, and I have to sort mine into galleries once I've determined that everything got uploaded correctly.

antsmarching wrote:

I think also part of thing that complicates things is the use of my Eye-Fi card....which I like. If were to use Lightroom to organize/delete/hide and then upload, without using Eye-Fi, that would probably allow me to have a similar workflow.

SamirD - What software do pros typically use to do their post?

The only thing I really see the eye-fi card helping with is minimizing upload time. If it's not a significant help, then I'd suggest you move to the Lightroom-based workflow you outlined. This way, your sort process is quicker since you don't have to work through the SM interface, and your upload time is a bit shorter, which might make up for any gain via the eye-fi card.

As far as software...

You're asking the wrong guy. I've barely done post, ever, and it's always just been very basic when I needed something out of one of my images. I'm typically using irfanview, but that's not a digital darkroom by any stretch. Photoshop is the king of the digital darkroom, but the only version I ever worked with extensively was on Windows 3.1. :hide Perhaps someone else will chime in on the software to use.

antsmarching · November 21, 2009

As far as post software...I meant something that would allow organization of the photos once they are up on Smugmug.

I already use Photoshop, when I want to manipulate the images themselves...which I really only do on a few specific photos.

Giving up Eye-Fi is probably going to be the solution...although my good friend at Eye-Fi will be disappointed.

I would stay with Phanfare but they recently made changes regarding their "unlimited" storage...my account is so large that I am going to be charged way, way beyond the standard rate, something that I cannot afford or could even justify spending that much on it. Their Client software is perfect for what I need.

Does anyone else have any suggestions for post-SmugMug-upload software?

SamirD · November 21, 2009

antsmarching wrote:

As far as post software...I meant something that would allow organization of the photos once they are up on Smugmug.

Hmmm...what specific features would the Phanfare client allow?

antsmarching · November 21, 2009

Pretty much everything that you can do on the SmugMug website, but just more user friendly and faster (quick-keys):

Hide, rotate, add tags, delete, moves, mark as favorite, etc.

I guess I just don't like the web interface and prefer actual applications.

SamirD · November 21, 2009

antsmarching wrote:

Pretty much everything that you can do on the SmugMug website, but just more user friendly and faster (quick-keys):

Hide, rotate, add tags, delete, moves, mark as favorite, etc.

I guess I just don't like the web interface and prefer actual applications.

There's some shortcuts to SM's web interface as well. I almost never touch the mouse during the culling process.

Right and Left arrow move from one picture to the next. "H" will hide/unhide a picture. I don't delete anymore because hiding is faster. Before the hide feature, I'd write down picture numbers and then go into the bulk delete option. I try to move all the images at once to the gallery that I need it in. I may have to do this repeatedly before I get the results I want. I don't use tags since I don't need any SEO optimization. I've never used the marking favorite feature.

For tags, I'd just write them down on a piece of paper or something during image review and then go back and put them in. One of the third party programs may be better at tagging, but I wouldn't know which one. StarExplorer comes highly recommended.

antsmarching · November 22, 2009

I have tried StarExplorer, in the hopes that it would do everything I needed. I couldn't figure some things out so I wrote to the programmer, in response to the following questions he wrote "no":

1.[FONT=&quot] Are additional features made available once the software is purchased?[/FONT]
2.[FONT=&quot] Is it possible to add Photoranks to photos?[/FONT]
3.[FONT=&quot] Is it possible to move and/or copy photos from one gallery to another?[/FONT]
4.[FONT=&quot] Is it possible to delete photos from galleries?[/FONT]
5.[FONT=&quot] Is it possible to hide photos from galleries?[/FONT]
6.[FONT=&quot] Is it possible to reorganize/re-order the photos?[/FONT]
7.[FONT=&quot] Is it possible to change photo titles or add tags?[/FONT]

So no luck with that one.

I have been messing around with IMatch, but get an error when trying to sync thumbsnail back down to the software.

SamirD · November 22, 2009

Hmmm...have you seen this:
http://wiki.photoolsweb.com/index.php?title=IMSmugTools_-_scripts_to_integrate_IMatch_and_Smugmug

SamirD · November 22, 2009

SamirD wrote:

Hmmm...have you seen this:
http://wiki.photoolsweb.com/index.php?title=IMSmugTools_-_scripts_to_integrate_IMatch_and_Smugmug

Nevermind, I see that you're using it. I'm reading the thread on photools...

darryl · November 22, 2009

antsmarching wrote:

Everyone

I an new to SmugMug, have been using Phanfare for over 5 years now and have an enormous collection of photos and videos which I am in the processing of transferring over.

I like all of the features of SmugMug, but really miss the Phanfare Client software for organization, sorting, tagging, deleting, hiding of my photos. I find the web interface of SmugMug to be tedious.

I have been trying to use IMatch, for the post=production work, but have not been successful in getting the thumbnails of the photos which have been already been uploaded to my SmugMug account (via my Eye-Fi card).
(I get this error: Fatal Parsing Error: Cannot continue to get value for attribute: AlbumURL)

So my question to you all is: How do you guys perfrom your post production tasks? Do you do it through the browser interface? Something else?

PLEASE HELP!

Thank you!

Alex

Hi Alex -- I *love* Phanfare's Client software. That's why I use them for my personal photos. (Although I use SmugMug for school stuff like portraits. However with Phanfare's new Drop Box feature, I'm back with them for sharing photos.)

I'm curious as to why you left them for SmugMug...

Anyways, I definitely feel your pain when it comes to managing albums using SmugMug's web UI for organizing photos. It pales in comparison to Phanfare's Desktop Client (and even their Web Client, IMHO).

Once upon a time there was a company called NitroDesk that was attempting to provide many of the features that you seek.

I believe the company has discontinued development on the product (they seem to have moved to Android), but you can still download the installer from them: http://www.nitrodesk.com/downloads.aspx

Looks like the stuff you need is under their free features set, so I'd give it a spin.

SamirD · November 22, 2009

I'm thinking this has to do with the newer version of the SM API. Although, you specify the API version you want in code, so unless there's a really old version being used, it shouldn't be a problem.

SamirD · November 22, 2009

darryl wrote:

I believe the company has discontinued development on the product (they seem to have moved to Android), but you can still download the installer from them: http://www.nitrodesk.com/downloads.aspx

Wow, powerful looking software. Nice link!

antsmarching · November 22, 2009

darryl wrote:

Once upon a time there was a company called NitroDesk that was attempting to provide many of the features that you seek.

I believe the company has discontinued development on the product (they seem to have moved to Android), but you can still download the installer from them: http://www.nitrodesk.com/downloads.aspx

Looks like the stuff you need is under their free features set, so I'd give it a spin.

Thanks for the link. I tried it out and it does some things, but is very clunky and still nowhere near what the Phanfare Client does.

darryl · November 22, 2009

antsmarching wrote:

Thanks for the link. I tried it out and it does some things, but is very clunky and still nowhere near what the Phanfare Client does.

Yeah, it's too bad they're not working on it anymore. So hm, why are you leaving Phanfare?

Like I said, for my personal stuff, it's great. I don't want to worry about categories, subcategories, etc.

But for stuff that does need more structure or flexibility in presentation, SmugMug is great. Also, their API is richer and continues to develop.

SamirD · November 22, 2009

What are the functions that you want to do from a client vs SM web? I've messed with the API a little and I'm curious if it's possible.

denisegoldberg · November 22, 2009

antsmarching wrote:

I have tried StarExplorer, in the hopes that it would do everything I needed. I couldn't figure some things out so I wrote to the programmer, in response to the following questions he wrote "no":

1.Are additional features made available once the software is purchased?

I'm a very happy StarExplorer user - and if Nikolai updates the software - whether it is a fix or a new feature, the updates are available to all licensed users. I am always using the current version of that software.

Of course, the features that are available to you depend on the version of the software that you purchase.

--- Denise

antsmarching · November 22, 2009

SamirD wrote:

What are the functions that you want to do from a client vs SM web? I've messed with the API a little and I'm curious if it's possible.

SM has most of the "functions" I want available on the web, although two that I can think of that are needed are virtual photos (I create "best of albums" and this would be helpful) and the ability to add sections to galleries for best organization within them.

The main issue is that applications are typically more user friendly, which was the case of Phanfare's Windows Client. You could do all of the same things via their website, but for speed, ease and dealing with almost 200,000 photos the app is better. For example, an online version of Photoshop, with all the functions, just won't be the same.

antsmarching · November 22, 2009

denisegoldberg wrote:

I'm a very happy StarExplorer user - and if Nikolai updates the software - whether it is a fix or a new feature, the updates are available to all licensed users. I am always using the current version of that software.

Of course, the features that are available to you depend on the version of the software that you purchase.

--- Denise

antsmarching wrote:

I am using Version 1.0.0.248...just saw there is a new version of yesterday.

I asked Nikolai the following questions to see if SE would do these:
1.Are additional features made available once the software is purchased?
2.Is it possible to add Photoranks to photos?
3.Is it possible to move and/or copy photos from one gallery to another?
4.Is it possible to delete photos from galleries?
5.Is it possible to hide photos from galleries?
6.Is it possible to reorganize/re-order the photos?
7.Is it possible to change photo titles or add tags?

And they said: "Unfortunately, the answer to all your questions is NO."

These are some of the functions that I wish a desktop app would have.

SamirD · November 22, 2009

antsmarching wrote:

SM has most of the "functions" I want available on the web, although two that I can think of that are needed are virtual photos (I create "best of albums" and this would be helpful) and the ability to add sections to galleries for best organization within them.

Unfortunately, there's no way to do virtual photos on SM, online or off. I actually have all my photos uploaded twice--once in an archive, and then once in the galleries. If I could do virtual photos, it would cut my storage space use down to almost half since the galleries are basically subsets of the archive.

The only way have a photo in two places on SM is to actually have it in both galleries. There's two ways to do this--create a copy in the source gallery and then move it to the destination, which works if you have just a few images. Or, just upload the image to the gallery, which works better for large batches of images.

As far as adding sections to a gallery, I'm not sure what you mean since the feature doesn't exist on SM.

You could divide the gallery into different galleries, but I don't think you want to do that. You could use Smugislands to group these galleries.

antsmarching wrote:

The main issue is that applications are typically more user friendly, which was the case of Phanfare's Windows Client. You could do all of the same things via their website, but for speed, ease and dealing with almost 200,000 photos the app is better. For example, an online version of Photoshop, with all the functions, just won't be the same.

I totally agree. But the way of the world is moving towards online apps. At the same time, you can't take photoshop and make it totally online, so there will always be a client interface. If the features on SM increase, there may be a need for a client in the near future. Or better yet, why not just have a fully working interface for an existing client like IMatch.

Full circle here we come...

antsmarching · November 23, 2009

I wish I could figure out what this error was, in order to get IMatch working (download thumbs):

"Fatal Parsing Error: Cannot continue to get value for attribute: AlbumURL"

I emailed IMatch, but they said they were to busy to respond and I should consult this forum...

SamirD · November 23, 2009

antsmarching wrote:

I wish I could figure out what this error was, in order to get IMatch working (download thumbs):

"Fatal Parsing Error: Cannot continue to get value for attribute: AlbumURL"

I emailed IMatch, but they said they were to busy to respond and I should consult this forum...

When did this error start happening?

The reason I ask is because the only thing I can think of was something similar that happened in one of my pieces of code. The Smugmug album IDs used to be only 7 digits long. Recently, there's 8 digit album IDs too. I hard-coded my program to parse 7 digit codes. When it would hit 8, my program had issues. I wonder if that's the same case with this.

If I could just see the source code or have a line number where the issue is, I could probably figure it out...

SmugMug Post-Production

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