Publishing photos of Strangers

bsclark_1 · November 19, 2009

Hello,

I'm not sure if this is the right place for this question. Feel free to move it if not.

I have been asked to take pictures at a charity event next month. Some of them will be published in a local magazine, and I'd like to publish several of them online at Smugmug.

I am wondering about the legal issues of photographing strangers at this event and publishing them. Do I need to obtain their permission? The event is called the Christmas Train, and parents will by excursion tickets for their kids to take a train ride with Santa and have their picture taken with him (a different photographer is doing that part), so I expect lots of shots of kids dragging their parents, having big eyes due to the train, etc....

I am also considering looking into taking candid shots at local youth sporting events and trying to sell them, so the same question applies to that.

Thanks!!

Mr. Quiet · November 19, 2009

I would like that question answered too...

JakeEbersole · November 19, 2009

I've never had a problem. I wouldn't think you could run into any problems.

com3 · November 21, 2009

public place = open game, as far as i know. i regularly have shots published in mags and have never needed permission of the people in the photos.

as long as you're not violating and "reasonable expectation of privacy" laws... then again, i'm no lawyer, so i could be wrong.

Mr_Beach_Bum · November 21, 2009

There's a bunch of really good discussions on this over in the Street & PJ forum.

colourbox · November 21, 2009

com3 wrote:

public place = open game, as far as i know...as long as you're not violating and "reasonable expectation of privacy" laws... then again, i'm no lawyer, so i could be wrong.

The way I understand it is what was said above, plus, if you are not using their images in an ad (to sell a product, implying that the person is endorsing it). In other words, the distinction between "commercial" and "editorial" use. Editorial use has a lot more leeway.

This web site is helpful in thinking about model releases.

bsclark_1 · November 23, 2009

Thanks for the feedback...

Angelo · November 29, 2009

bsclark_1 wrote:

Thanks for the feedback...

there's a host of information on this subject matter in the "Photographer's Resources" sticky thread at the top of the MYOB forum.

Blaker · November 30, 2009

com3 wrote:

public place = open game, as far as i know.
as long as you're not violating and "reasonable expectation of privacy" laws... then again, i'm no lawyer, so i could be wrong.

Yes, you are wrong.

It's not the LOCATION that determines the need for a release, it's the USAGE.

In a nutshell,
Editorial usage (newspapers, magazines, websites) does not need a release.
Advertising usage does need a release.

johng · November 30, 2009

Two points to make:

1) Most people are talking about US law here. Be VERY careful if you are in another country - their laws may be different.

2) While legally accurate in most cases that editorial usage does not require a release if the subject was in a public place, you should always check with the publication. Publications can require releases just to make their lifes easier - no extra work on their part to get them and it prevents hassles and legal costs.

Cygnus Studios · November 30, 2009

JakeEbersole wrote:

I've never had a problem. I wouldn't think you could run into any problems.

I get away with speeding on the 101 freeway, so will that guarantee others can do the same? does that make it legal?

Also, keep in mind that being within the law does not protect oneself from being arrested or sued. Publications are asking for releases more and more often because it covers their butt, not because they are legally obligated to do so.

Read this article about a photographer being sued for street photography

Every lawsuit costs money to defend, whether you win or lose.

wadesworld · November 30, 2009

Cygnus Studios wrote:

I get away with speeding on the 101 freeway, so will that guarantee others can do the same? does that make it legal?

Also, keep in mind that being within the law does not protect oneself from being arrested or sued. Publications are asking for releases more and more often because it covers their butt, not because they are legally obligated to do so.

Read this article about a photographer being sued for street photography

Every lawsuit costs money to defend, whether you win or lose.

Just a followup, someone posted a comment that says that the lawsuit was dismissed - meaning the photographer was victorious. Unfortunately the law.com article requires a subscription, so I couldn't verify whether that was true or not.

johng · November 30, 2009

wadesworld wrote:

Just a followup, someone posted a comment that says that the lawsuit was dismissed - meaning the photographer was victorious. Unfortunately the law.com article requires a subscription, so I couldn't verify whether that was true or not.

BUT, how much money did it cost the photographer to defend himself/herself?

Winning a lawsuit doesn't mean the other side pays all your attorney fees.

wadesworld · November 30, 2009

johng wrote:

BUT, how much money did it cost the photographer to defend himself/herself?

Winning a lawsuit doesn't mean the other side pays all your attorney fees.

Oh, I agree. Now, to be fair the plantiff might have had to pay all the fees. But that still doesn't help you when you're shelling out thousands and thousands of dollars upfront.

In many, many cases, I'd err on the side of caution. I do think it important that sometimes photographers assert their rights and risk being sued - lest those rights dissolve. But then again, who wants to be that brave soul?

Angelo · November 30, 2009

wadesworld wrote:

...sometimes photographers assert their rights and risk being sued - lest those rights dissolve. But then again, who wants to be that brave soul?

I'm one of those that believes the right is worth defending and fighting for and often take action.

http://www.flickr.com/groups/laprotest/

http://discarted.wordpress.com/

.

Cygnus Studios · November 30, 2009

wadesworld wrote:

In many, many cases, I'd err on the side of caution. I do think it important that sometimes photographers assert their rights and risk being sued - lest those rights dissolve. But then again, who wants to be that brave soul?

I am just curious as to what "RIGHT" you believe that photographers have. Laws vary from state to state and even country to country, but as far as I know, there is no RIGHT that covers photography outside of the Freedom of the press, which in and of itself is very defined.

Sure, there are laws that govern photography, but like most laws provide the limitations of the person, not the provisions of what is legal.

Blaker · December 2, 2009

Angelo wrote:

I'm one of those that believes the right is worth defending and fighting for and often take action.

Interesting topic, what actions have you taken to preserve photog's rights?

Angelo · December 2, 2009

Blaker wrote:

Interesting topic, what actions have you taken to preserve photog's rights?

actions we've taken are documented in the two links I included above.

generally a group of local photogs hit the streets and upon encountering any objections or interference from "officials" we educate them on the law with printed collateral and sometimes police support.

Blaker · December 2, 2009

Angelo wrote:

actions we've taken are documented in the two links I included above.

generally a group of local photogs hit the streets and upon encountering any objections or interference from "officials" we educate them on the law with printed collateral and sometimes police support.

Can you recount your personal experiences doing this? What and where were you photographing ? Who interfered? What did they say to you? What was your response? Did it escalate into an arrest? Did you have a lawyer?
thanks!

Angelo · December 2, 2009

Blaker wrote:

Can you recount your personal experiences doing this? What and where were you photographing ? Who interfered? What did they say to you? What was your response? Did it escalate into an arrest? Did you have a lawyer?
thanks!

This will take you to some videos of our encounters: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raxSlPxTYQA

in most instances private security guards attempt to stop photographers from engaging in street photography, claiming security issues which is total nonsense in our opinion. They frequently come close to or actually get physical and / or threaten arrest.

Knowing our rights we have engaged the LAPD in these matters and have been backed up by officers who acknowledge photography is completely legal while out in public.

LAPD have taken strong positions against these "rent-a-cops" who overstep their authority and cause civil distraction.

Blaker · December 4, 2009

Angelo wrote:

This will take you to some videos of our encounters: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raxSlPxTYQA

in most instances private security guards attempt to stop photographers from engaging in street photography, claiming security issues which is total nonsense in our opinion. They frequently come close to or actually get physical and / or threaten arrest.

Knowing our rights we have engaged the LAPD in these matters and have been backed up by officers who acknowledge photography is completely legal while out in public.

LAPD have taken strong positions against these "rent-a-cops" who overstep their authority and cause civil distraction.

Often it's the police themselves who violate press photogs and amateur photogs rights.

I do know this happens a lot, and was more interested in hearing of your own personal experience dealing with this.

Angelo · December 5, 2009

this was a personal experience. I'm in the video!!!

Blaker · December 5, 2009

Angelo wrote:

this was a personal experience. I'm in the video!!!

Ok, I watched some of those videos.
Does your organization provide legal services for the persons who were assaulted, had their cameras taken away, and who were illegally detained?

It seems to me that you will make more of a mark by filing offical complaints and suing the appropriate officers/departments when they illegally detain and take away equipment.

Angelo · December 5, 2009

Blaker wrote:

Ok, I watched some of those videos.
Does your organization provide legal services for the persons who were assaulted, had their cameras taken away, and who were illegally detained?

It seems to me that you will make more of a mark by filing offical complaints and suing the appropriate officers/departments when they illegally detain and take away equipment.

we do not provide legal services but we make public any and offenses we can find, file official complaints with all appropriate parties, educating them as we go on what is permissible and when necessary call in or file police complaints.

We have had one instance with one of the security companies that has led to legal action with the ACLU stepping in to assist us. That case is pending.

Publishing photos of Strangers

Comments