High School Basketball Questions...

timparker_NikonD60 · December 19, 2009

I have read most of the questions previously asked about this topic and haven't seen a difinitive answer. Other than the obvious of an f/2.8 lens or faster, what type of focal length "should" be used in a High School Gym for Varsity Basketball?

I know that the size of the gym will matter. The one my daughter's school has is relatively big. I rented an 70-200mm f/2.8 lens and was ready to go and try my hand again at shooting b-ball.

I had shot before with my 18-55 kit and 55-200mm f/4-5.6 which I found was a bit too slow upon my first round of research for Volleyball.

I am still processing the shots from last night and will add a couple for reference and viewing in a bit, was too tired last night to start importing.

(

We started out sitting about 6 rows up off the floor *where the Mrs. likes to sit* and at anything above 70mm I was having trouble not cutting off hands, feet and heads. So the frame wasn't full like the shots I have seen in other threads. So I am a bit confused.

I didn't even try to move down courtside. Seems like the stuff I have seen on here the angles are from Courtside, so I am now wondering if the focal length is too big for the size of gym and the sport? I am shooting with a Nikon D60.

Any thoughts or ideas would be awesome to help me learn a bit more. Thanks.

Tim

rolette · December 19, 2009

Depends an awful lot on where you are shooting from, how bad the lighting in the gym is, and how good the high-ISO performance on your camera is.

With my Canon 40D, I tend to shoot middle-school and youth basketball from the baseline right under the basket. I use a 24-70 f/2.8 + bounce flash off the ceiling. Remote strobes would be better, but I haven't made the plunge there yet...

In case it helps, the settings I tend to use are M, ISO ~1250, 1/250 (max x-sync speed), ~f/3.2, FEC +1 1/2 - 2 1/2.

70-200mm tends to be ok for shooting from the stands in most gyms, but I find it much harder to get faces instead of backs.

I'm really looking forward to getting my 1D Mark IV so I can drop the flash...

Jay

rainbow · December 19, 2009

I shoot HS and MS bb with prime lenses. My workhorse is the Canon 135 f/2L because I like the photos best from this lens. I have shot it with my 40D (1.6x crop) and currently prefer using my 5D (FF). I also prefer courtside (5 feet from sideline) and baseline (10 feet away). I have just begun using a 35 mm from right under the basket.

So how to shoot a longer focal length and get the shots you describe? I shoot the spots where the focal length is correct for the framing! It is quite predictable that the ball will stop at the top outside the three point line and then be passed to either wing. Usually, my pics are of players on the far side because they are facing me. Close side of the court means their back is usually to me and they are too close to frame well. Sideline also gives a good distance for drives and action under the basket with this FL.

I have not shot bb with a zoom. Seems like the extra element of changing the FL would make me miss more shots than get as much of my effort is getting the focus point ready when the ball is where I want to take the shot.

jmphotocraft · December 19, 2009

I'm a newbie at basketball, but I had decent luck with my 5DII on ISO 3200, and a 24-70 on f/2.8. In one gym (shots 18 to 76) the light was very bad and basically any shot without bounce flash was useless. In another gym (shots 84 to 108) the light was better and I could get away without flash. I shot in manual and I moved around between 1/320 and 1/500 at f/2.8. I was at 70mm most of the time and then had to do some cropping. If I get more of these jobs I will pick up an 85/1.8. A 135/2 would be nice too. Shots 85 to 107 are with the 1DIIN, and that I kept down to ISO 1250 and used flash.

http://jmphotocraft.smugmug.com/FalmouthBasketball/5th-grade-Girls

donek · December 19, 2009

Your D60 has a DX chip (1.5 crop factor). This makes a 70-200 equivalent to 105 to 300mm on your body. This is a bit long until you become quite accomplished at a sport like basketball. A 24-70 (36-105 equivalent) will give you a more usable range as a beginner. The 70-200 is ideal on something like a D700 or D3 (FX full size chip). If you're shooting without a flash, f2.8 on a D60 is going to really struggle. With that camera body, you're best bet is a 50mm and 85mm f1.4 or f1.8.

Cheapest solution:
buy a 50mm f1.8 for about $115

more money:
add an 85 f1.8 for another $400-$500

better results with both the above lenses:
get a shoe mounted flash and bounce it off the wall behind you.

most expensive solution:
get two to 4 speedlights (shoe mounted flashes) and fire them off camera with radio triggers and use 24-70 f2.8 and 70-200 f2.8 lenses.

timparker_NikonD60 · December 19, 2009

Ah. The DX chip. I didn't think about that! They kind of frown on flash in Ohio for most of the indoor sports. I am still getting all the technicals down. I appreciate the suggestions and the info given! Thanks again.

Tim

donek wrote:

Your D60 has a DX chip (1.5 crop factor). This makes a 70-200 equivalent to 105 to 300mm on your body. This is a bit long until you become quite accomplished at a sport like basketball. A 24-70 (36-105 equivalent) will give you a more usable range as a beginner. The 70-200 is ideal on something like a D700 or D3 (FX full size chip). If you're shooting without a flash, f2.8 on a D60 is going to really struggle. With that camera body, you're best bet is a 50mm and 85mm f1.4 or f1.8.

Cheapest solution:
buy a 50mm f1.8 for about $115

more money:
add an 85 f1.8 for another $400-$500

better results with both the above lenses:
get a shoe mounted flash and bounce it off the wall behind you.

most expensive solution:
get two to 4 speedlights (shoe mounted flashes) and fire them off camera with radio triggers and use 24-70 f2.8 and 70-200 f2.8 lenses.

time2smile · December 20, 2009

Use a flash, ask the ref, sit in the last row, against the wall, bounce the flash off the wall behind you, test shot, shot raw for WB later.
You may look into the 35 f1.8 it will AF with the D60 and only $200 new

good luck

timparker_NikonD60 · December 20, 2009

Still haven't been able to go through all the pictures I took, but the lighting didn't seem to be a problem. It was more of not filling the frame to properly get a good, framed shot. Was out yesterday with friends all day and today did some volunteer work. I will post a couple shots up hopefully later tonight.

Looking for somewhere to buy local a 50mm lens to use. Thanks for all the info. I learn more and more every day from everyone! I appreciate it.

time2smile wrote:

Use a flash, ask the ref, sit in the last row, against the wall, bounce the flash off the wall behind you, test shot, shot raw for WB later.
You may look into the 35 f1.8 it will AF with the D60 and only $200 new

good luck

johng · December 20, 2009

timparker_NikonD60 wrote:

Ah. The DX chip. I didn't think about that! They kind of frown on flash in Ohio for most of the indoor sports. I am still getting all the technicals down. I appreciate the suggestions and the info given! Thanks again.

Tim

Tim - as a shooter in Ohio I'd disagree. Flash use is common in basketball and wrestling. It's still a no-no for volleyball though. Still, using flash from the stands is going to have less-then-stellar results because of the shadows and the way it will illuminate the other stands across from you. Really you want to be down on the baseline so you have the length of the court for light fall-off.

I'm going to guess a big part of your framing problem is you're likely shooting in landscape orientation rather than portrait. Even on a 1.5x crop body, the 70-200 is a perfect focal length lens. It's highly recommended even from the baseline. In fact, until the onset of ISO 6400 in the recent generation, the 85mm 1.8 was the go-to lens for most ameteur shooters in Canon and Nikon mount. The biggest problem with shooting from the stands isn't that 70-200 is too tight, it's that it's difficult to get FACES in the shots. Either faces are away from you and towards the basket or there are too many people between you and your subject.

In general, the best thing you can do to improve your basketball is to get down to the baseline or shoot from the front couple rows down in the corner by the baseline.

Good luck.

timparker_NikonD60 · December 20, 2009

Thanks John!

I think you commented on some of my Volleyball questions from before. Glad you came back into this thread also. Which part of Ohio are you in? I will have to check on using the Flash then and maybe I just assumed I couldn't use it.

I will be going to another game next week, I did mix up a bit on portrait vs. Landscape, but most were mainly landscape to be honest. I will try and camp myself along the corner of the court and see what I can do using Portrait.

Thanks for the comments. Sports isn't going to be my big thing, enjoying more portrait and nature/landscape as a secondary so far. But always have a lot to learn!

Appreciate the comments.

johng wrote:

Tim - as a shooter in Ohio I'd disagree. Flash use is common in basketball and wrestling. It's still a no-no for volleyball though. Still, using flash from the stands is going to have less-then-stellar results because of the shadows and the way it will illuminate the other stands across from you. Really you want to be down on the baseline so you have the length of the court for light fall-off.

I'm going to guess a big part of your framing problem is you're likely shooting in landscape orientation rather than portrait. Even on a 1.5x crop body, the 70-200 is a perfect focal length lens. It's highly recommended even from the baseline. In fact, until the onset of ISO 6400 in the recent generation, the 85mm 1.8 was the go-to lens for most ameteur shooters in Canon and Nikon mount. The biggest problem with shooting from the stands isn't that 70-200 is too tight, it's that it's difficult to get FACES in the shots. Either faces are away from you and towards the basket or there are too many people between you and your subject.

In general, the best thing you can do to improve your basketball is to get down to the baseline or shoot from the front couple rows down in the corner by the baseline.

Good luck.

High School Basketball Questions...

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