Wedding payment arrangement

GemGem · January 16, 2010

Hi!

I am a family photographer and was asked to photograph a wedding this summer. The Mother of the groom asked if I would take a retainer of half down and the other half after she gets the picture CD. I initially asked her for half down, the other half two weeks before the wedding. She expressed she really likes my portrait work. I asked her if she would feel 100% comfortable hiring me vs. a seasonal wedding photographer and her answer was yes. I don't feel comfortable with her request though. It leaves too much room for anything.... Have any of you great wedding photographers made this type of arrangements before?

Thank you for your expert advice

GG

l.k.madison · January 16, 2010

GemGem wrote:

Hi!

I am a family photographer and was asked to photograph a wedding this summer. The Mother of the groom asked if I would take a retainer of half down and the other half after she gets the picture CD. I initially asked her for half down, the other half two weeks before the wedding. She expressed she really likes my portrait work. I asked her if she would feel 100% comfortable hiring me vs. a seasonal wedding photographer and her answer was yes. I don't feel comfortable with her request though. It leaves too much room for anything.... Have any of you great wedding photographers made this type of arrangements before?

Thank you for your expert advice
GG

Ask her if she pays for half of her groceries when she buys them and the other half when she cooks that for dinner?

I'd avoid that arrangement like the plague, it's just asking to get you (and her) in trouble, regardless of how much you trust her.

Don't EVER give over a service until that check has cleared, regardless of the service.

Just my two cents.

mmmatt · January 16, 2010

I actually do this although I know a lot (most) photogs consider this a big no no. Actually I only require 25% and offer that if they pay 50% that they get a free engagement session, so most go 50%. Now when I say I get the money when delivering the dvd it is exactly that. I don't allow them to critique my work before giving me a check. I may change this in the future, but so far it has been fine. This also inspires me to finish the set up in a timely manner thus keeping my priorities square, and it is something I use as a sales pitch comparing myself to "the guy who could mess everything up and you are out your money".

Matt

GemGem · January 16, 2010

mmmatt wrote:

I actually do this although I know a lot (most) photogs consider this a big no no. Actually I only require 25% and offer that if they pay 50% that they get a free engagement session, so most go 50%. Now when I say I get the money when delivering the dvd it is exactly that. I don't allow them to critique my work before giving me a check. I may change this in the future, but so far it has been fine. This also inspires me to finish the set up in a timely manner thus keeping my priorities square, and it is something I use as a sales pitch comparing myself to "the guy who could mess everything up and you are out your money".

Matt

I hear you both. It is so scary, like.. if she doesn't like some of the pictures, then she can say I won't pay you or pay you less? They do not seem like that type of family and it was a referral from her good friend, so I am thinking it may work fine. I will just have to make it very clear in the contract, that she will only be able to view a limited amount of pictures until the final payment is made; or something like that..

.

Thank you so much for your advice

GG

l.k.madison · January 16, 2010

GemGem wrote:

I hear you both. It is so scary, like.. if she doesn't like some of the pictures, then she can say I won't pay you or pay you less? They do not seem like that type of family and it was a referral from her good friend, so I am thinking it may work fine. I will just have to make it very clear in the contract, that she will only be able to view a limited amount of pictures until the final payment is made; or something like that...

Thank you so much for your advice
GG

I'm all for a preview, posting some (maybe the first few you grabbed to edit) somewhere (Facebook, maybe?) Then handing her the cd with the ALL of the pictures on (of course, leaving some GREAT ones that didn't get posted as teasers).

Maybe have her write you a post-dated check (if you promise not to cash it until you hand over the DVD) so you at lease *have* it before hand.

OR hand over the DVD/CD in exchange for her check, don't give her time to look at them on the computer before she signs that baby. If she trusts you, it shouldn't be an issue, but some of the worst clients are your friends/family that try to sneak in favors because they ARE friends/family.

mmmatt · January 16, 2010

Yeah, I email a few teasers a few days after the shoot, and then it is hand to hand dvd for a check. you don't want to get into the situation of having people critique your work before they pay.

Matt

GemGem · January 16, 2010

Great tips, great... great!!! I propose that. Give her a pre-view of some of the best ones, then once I get the check, she will get to view her gallery and get her CD. Will let you know what she says. I am so nervous though........
Thank you!
GG

l.k.madison · January 16, 2010

GemGem wrote:

Great tips, great... great!!! I propose that. Give her a pre-view of some of the best ones, then once I get the check, she will get to view her gallery and get her CD. Will let you know what she says. I am so nervous though........
Thank you!
GG

Here's a hint, DON'T give her the best ones, well, don't give her ALL of the best ones as teasers. Pull 2 or 3 of your top ten, include those in your "teasers" then pull a few that rank between 10-20 on your list. Leave them in suspense. Let them be surprised when they finally see all of them.

TNTATC · January 16, 2010

I look at it as if you want to have a business you have to know when to treat it like one. I love taking pics and have been working for free for years. Just this last year i'v been working on making this a real company for me and it's slowly been going great. Taking pics it turns out most of all your first clients are friends or family and when it comes to money all you want to do is give them a great deal. I create prices that are very low and when it comes down to how much do I owe you I end up cutting it in half or just screwing myself out of a lot of time spent on there pics.

I knew that if I really was serious about wanting to have a business i'd need something to follow and stick to. I have recently created contracts for my services, including price sheets to follow. Now there are no questions and when I sign it I am liable to follow what I sign. It really takes the thinking out of it and makes me feel better knowing a price and time has been agreed on. If you still feel like helping out someone throw in a 10% discount but dont leave it open for to much discussion.

In my contract I think it says 25% paid at signing, 50% up to 3 months prior and the entire amount will be piad no sooner to wedding day than 2 weeks or something. I'm at work so I do not have it infront of me. The contract states that unless I am paid in full prior to the event then my services are not expected the day of. When I created that it was like someone stepped off my chest. Now I just say this is my contract that I hold myself to each time and it's not up for discussion or change. There is no refund if they choose not to pay in full and legally they are liable to pay me in full according to the contract they signed.

Sounds to me like they want to see if the pics are goodenough for them. It should be a yes or no if they want to use you.
I did pics for a friend who had a manager that was very picky, my buddy loved the pics but his manager kept emailing me asking if I could do this and that and that and more, after I changed the pic for her twice as a kind gesture I soon found out I was not going to win. She kept wanting more done and I simply told her that I had already aggreed to do the pics and was done with my side of it, any further work on the photos would cost them. I was glad to not get anymore emails from her haha first time putting my foot down.

Hope any of my blabbing helped out.

GemGem · January 16, 2010

l.k.madison wrote:

Here's a hint, DON'T give her the best ones, well, don't give her ALL of the best ones as teasers. Pull 2 or 3 of your top ten, include those in your "teasers" then pull a few that rank between 10-20 on your list. Leave them in suspense. Let them be surprised when they finally see all of them.

Sounds great

. Now, I will practice my confidence voice to call her.

GG

TNTATC · January 16, 2010

You should not have to bribe your clients to get your money. If she has the money to pay it full but is just holding out to see the pics then she does not trust you. If it is financial reasons and she needs to wait that long before they have it to pay then consider it. Other wise tell her NO

GemGem · January 16, 2010

Hope any of my blabbing helped out.[/QUOTE]

It did. Thank you for your insight. This would be my second wedding and she knows it. I called her and asked her why she was seriously considering me? She said "because I was a referral, she liked my personality and my portrait work." So then I asked her, what are you expecting to see when I deliver your pictures? she answer "great pictures of course." So then I asked, then what is the reasoning behind wanting to see the pictures first, before paying the other half of the payment. She paused, then she says.. "I guess I wanted to know what you thought about it, that seems fair to the customer" I told her that I was not comfortable with that arrangement that we could work something out like half down, then the other half two weeks before the wedding. She said she will call me back, that she had to talk to the B&G.
So let's see what happens. I think if she is 100% confident with her decision of hiring me to capture the day, she will do it. If not, then it is better for all involved, for her to find a photographer whom they trust and feel comfortable with to capture their special day

.

GG

l.k.madison · January 16, 2010

GemGem wrote:

Hope any of my blabbing helped out.

It did. Thank you for your insight. This would be my second wedding and she knows it. I called her and asked her why she was seriously considering me? She said "because I was a referral, she liked my personality and my portrait work." So then I asked her, what are you expecting to see when I deliver your pictures? she answer "great pictures of course." So then I asked, then what is the reasoning behind wanting to see the pictures first, before paying the other half of the payment. She paused, then she says.. "I guess I wanted to know what you thought about it, that seems fair to the customer" I told her that I was not comfortable with that arrangement that we could work something out like half down, then the other half two weeks before the wedding. She said she will call me back, that she had to talk to the B&G.
So let's see what happens. I think if she is 100% confident with her decision of hiring me to capture the day, she will do it. If not, then it is better for all involved, for her to find a photographer whom they trust and feel comfortable with to capture their special day

.

GG[/quote]

sounds like she's never planned a wedding before... or contacted any other photographers on how they deal with payment plans "only seems fair to the customer" to give over half before services and half AFTER the wedding/editing/CD burning??

And you're completely right, if she wants you bad enough, she'll do what she can to keep you!

Good luck!

urbanaries · January 16, 2010

Be flexible and understanding.
I don't know. I read this thread earlier today and resisted throwing my two cents in, but I will. We're essentially freelancers, consultants. Who, in the business world, NEVER get paid until the work is complete. Now, it's standard wedding photographer practice these days to get everything up front. However, and please don't take offense to this because I don't know you, those of us who typically ask those terms have more than one weddings to back up our "word"...vendor relationships, liability insurance, business licenses, a readily available list of happy customers. Your hesitant client sounds savvy, not sketchy.

It wasn't long ago there was a thread here about the photog disappearing after being paid $8k. Rare case, but with times being what they are I'm hearing more and more of them. And that was a very highly recommended, experienced photographer....granted.

Bottom line, if my clients truly are hesitant to pay me up front before I show them A THING (or even, before I show up to the wedding) then I totally understand and do what I can. I know I can make them happy and collecting the money isn't going to be an issue, but their peace of mind might be a little shakier than normal these days.

Just my 2 cents.

The Mack · January 16, 2010

I require all payments to clear before I shoot. I'm confident enough in my work that I know they'll be happy with the work. If I went the route that she wants, I would only do it as said before, I would give them the DVD after the payment was given to you, in cash only.

Art Scott · January 16, 2010

l.k.madison wrote:

Ask her if she pays for half of her groceries when she buys them and the other half when she cooks that for dinner?

I'd avoid that arrangement like the plague, it's just asking to get you (and her) in trouble, regardless of how much you trust her.

Don't EVER give over a service until that check has cleared, regardless of the service.

Just my two cents.

I comepletely agree here with l.k.madison......if you go this route then do a mmatt does....take the retainer but do not for anyreason release or allowing viewing of any photos until you are paid in full and as l.k. madison said the check must have cleared the bank before turning over anything.....there is way too much room for a renig on the client....ie ...stop payment or just refuse to pay......the horror storys are out there of trusting photogs releasing proofs and wham the final payment is stopped.........

Matthew Saville · January 16, 2010

$1000 fee to book the date with the contract, balance due 21 days before the wedding date. Maybe in 2011 my retainer will be $2000, not sure yet.

This is just because I need money, and clients don't give me trouble about it. I'd avoid accepting final payments at the time of delivery because that really causes you trouble with the workflow / album design. Let's say for example you get super busy this year, and you get so popular that you can charge an arm and a leg but you're still over-worked? You can't out-source your proofing to Shoot Dot Edit, nor can you pay to have your album designed, because you've only got a small retainer that was paid eons ago... And forget about maybe needing to rent some gear last-minute, pay 2nd shooters, etc. etc.

I hope this makes a good case for people to charge the entire balance *before* the wedding date!

On the other hand though, I don't understand why some people get *SO* flustered when a client asks for a discount, or a payment grace period, etc. I guess what actually annoys me is when people equate wedding photography to fast food, etc... OBVIOUSLY you don't ask for a discount on a $9.95 happy meal! It's $9.95! Wedding photography can cost $9950. My wife's car is worth half that. And, lo and behold, you DO haggle over the price of a car!

Okay so my point is, I'm not insulted at all when a client asks if they can have an extra $200 off their package. Without blinking, I try and strike a bargain that benefits BOTH of us, for example if they're willing to pay the entire balance up front, I'd be more than happy to give a small discount. I'm the one calling the shots in my business, so I can do whatever I want! :-)

=Matt=

VayCayMom · January 17, 2010

I have not shot a wedding, BUT I have married off both of my daughters ! I used the same photographers for both weddings. Even at the second wedding, the balance was due before the wedding, it had to be a cashiers check. But then again this couple are known all over the country but even being a repeat customer did not change the rules of payment.

If she were willing to do the same, say final payment at rehearsal dinner or the AM of the wedding, I think that is fair. Maybe she is not too familiar with wedding planning and vendors.

Sam · January 17, 2010

I think I can understand both sides here, but the one thing that continues to bug me is what I consider to be close minded thinking of photographers. Many seem to act like some sort of photographic prima donna (sp).

While you are concerned about your clients not paying you, there seems to be a lack of understanding when your clients express a concern over actually getting what they contracted for. You don't want to accept your clients word to pay, why should they accept your word?

I do understand why, in particular, in the wedding industry, one would require payment up front, but believe it's up to the photographer to calm the concerns of their clients.

Do you have back up cameras, flashes, lenses, etc? Do you have assistants? Do you have a back up photographer in case of emergency? Do you have insurance? Do you have a list of former clients? Do you have a portfolio? Do you have album samples? Do you have references? Do you have an established history?

In short what do you have to demonstrate that the client should be comfortable in paying 100 % upfront?

If you can't justify and assure the client you will perform, why should the client pay you 100 % up front?

These are just my thoughts for you to think about. The solution is up to you.

Sam

Matthew Saville · January 17, 2010

Sam wrote:

I think I can understand both sides here, but the one thing that continues to bug me is what I consider to be close minded thinking of photographers. Many seem to act like some sort of photographic prima donna (sp).

While you are concerned about your clients not paying you, there seems to be a lack of understanding when your clients express a concern over actually getting what they contracted for. You don't want to accept your clients word to pay, why should they accept your word?

I do understand why, in particular, in the wedding industry, one would require payment up front, but believe it's up to the photographer to calm the concerns of their clients.

Do you have back up cameras, flashes, lenses, etc? Do you have assistants? Do you have a back up photographer in case of emergency? Do you have insurance? Do you have a list of former clients? Do you have a portfolio? Do you have album samples? Do you have references? Do you have an established history?

In short what do you have to demonstrate that the client should be comfortable in paying 100 % upfront?

If you can't justify and assure the client you will perform, why should the client pay you 100 % up front?

These are just my thoughts for you to think about. The solution is up to you.

Sam

Very good points, Sam! Personally, I'm *extremely* concerned for my client's peace of mind as well as their satisfaction with the final images / album. I grew up in a family where $1000 was A LOT of money, so when I realized I needed to be charging *many* thousands for my services, I really freaked out. How could photography be worth that much? It took me a long time before I was confident enough in my images, my experience level, and my liabilities in general. Like you said, everything has to be covered, from image backup to what-if-i-get-hit-by-a-dumptruck type disasters, etc... It REALLY scares me to think there are pros out there who don't take care of their clients in THAT respect. I don't care how good your images are, or how many people are banging down your door cuz you're a hot potato, ...it's extremely un-professional to not have backup equipment, or to not think about any of the dozens of other issues. I think that's more than half the reason that (experienced) wedding photographers get paid so well- they tripple-check everything, they're ready for ANY kind of situation, ergo the client can rest assured that no matter what their images will ROCK.

=Matt=

l.k.madison · January 18, 2010

Glort wrote:

I'm sure I'll get slammed for my comments as I always seem to do on this topic but anyway.

Name me one other vendor that gets paid after the wedding?

For the last 20 years I have got payment upfront and with the exception of one case have not had a problem. That one case was when someone came in for the final confirmation/ payment interview 2 weeks before the day and told me " their father" didn't want to pay the balance till he had seen the pics.
They knew very well what the conditions were 9 months earlier when they gave me the deposit so The upshot was I gave them a cheque back for their deposit and told them go find another shooter and have a happy life.
These people belonged to a particular ethnic group that is well known here ( even amongst themselves) for being untrustworthy in business deals and trying to change the terms after the fact... always to their advantage.
I have been bitten before by other clients and I certainly wasn't going with an odds on bet of trouble from the start.

I don't for one minute buy the trust argument with the money.
There is a lot more risk in booking you for the day in the first place than the cost. If they have enough trust in you to have you shoot their day, then the trust of the money is very secondary.

If the client reneges on paying or wants to come up with rubbish excuses in order to get a discount, you as the shooter have bugger all to go on to get your money back. The client however has a bunch of free consumer organizations that will act on their behalf and as a registered, known business, you are easy to find and serve court orders on or have your bank account garnished.

If my clients don't have enough faith to pay me up front like all the other wedding Vendors, then why the heck are they hiring me to shoot their wedding in the first place.?
There is a lot of trust on both sides of this deal and I have found it is as important to pick the right clients for you that you can understand and get in their heads to give them exactly what they want as it is for them to find the right shooter.

If my business terms are not acceptable, then that's fine, obviously we are not on the right wavelength to begin with and it's best we find that out right from the get go!

For other people, it is up to them how they want to run their business and what their preferences are but I like to minimize the chances of getting screwed over not leave myself open to it.

I completely agree. Your contract is your contract, if they don't like it, they can go elsewhere.

GemGem · January 19, 2010

**Update**
Thank you so much everyone, I really appreciate your experience and thoughts. You all rock

My customer said the bride and her feel I am the one to capture the day; she wants to hire me and agreed to pay me in full. However, she wants to me to also photograph her other son's wedding. Her son's wedding is will be huge and indoors. I explained I just wanted to capture this wedding for her; I am family photographer and enjoy that very much. She asked me to think about it and she adds "oh Honey, I have to tell you something, I always get my way".

. There is another photographer who offered her a great discount if he gets hired to cover both weddings; so I suggested maybe she should consider going that way. She still asked me to think about it and she will call me on Sat. to see if I had changed my mind.

I

to all of you wedding photographers, this is not easy money like some outsiders tend to say
" Why don't you just shoot weddings, it is easy money!" NOT!
Thank you everyone!!!
I was able to see both sides and more, thanks to this forum and my hubby

GG

Wedding payment arrangement

Comments