Around School

adbsgicom · January 21, 2010

I shot a bit of images trying to capture moments around my daughter's school. I would like a little feedback on conversion and composition for these. The goal was to not have the typical kid turning to the camera and giving cheesy smile type pictures. Thanks.

1. Honest....

2. Hmmm....

bdcolen · January 21, 2010

adbsgicom wrote:

I shot a bit of images trying to capture moments around my daughter's school. I would like a little feedback on conversion and composition for these. The goal was to not have the typical kid turning to the camera and giving cheesy smile type pictures. Thanks.

Both work quite well - and are far, far better than what you were trying to avoid.

(I do wonder though if the subject of the second image was posing for you.

But whether or not she was, it's a fun image. And the perspective and composition of both work very nicely.

ole doc · January 21, 2010

the candid kid faces are great. Unfortunately the teacher's back is in the way in a big way. I know there is lens distortion but the images might benefit for her not being in them at all.
Perhaps severe cropping to get the kids' heads alone would help. I love their expressions though, they surely are not self conscious about your being there with a camera.
The B&W conversion works well but then I date to when that is what we took.
Nick

lizzard_nyc · January 21, 2010

#1 definately works--love the expression

--I think for the image to work though the body of the teacher/person is necessary, especially because it's "looming" infront of the child.

I like #2 also--but on initial impression I thought she was posing--still cute though.

I see you and I are on the same boat as far as getting away from "say cheese" shots.

adbsgicom · January 21, 2010

Not sure how much is there to crop in the first without it just being a close-up of the young lady, but point taken. The second may benefit from a 1x1 crop. Knowing the kids (advantage of a 130-ish child school), the youngster in the second wasn't posing. She was actively getting some feedback on a writing project from the teacher and the expression was a happy accident in terms of capturing it. My rule in the rooms was I wouldn't take your picture if you were posing for me, or not following directions/class rules.

Thank you for the feedback on these.

rainbow · January 21, 2010

adbsgicom wrote:

I shot a bit of images trying to capture moments around my daughter's school. I would like a little feedback on conversion and composition for these. The goal was to not have the typical kid turning to the camera and giving cheesy smile type pictures. Thanks.

1. Honest....

2. Hmmm....

#1: The look of outrage when caught in the act!

Like #2 also. I am not sure if she is posing for the camera or acting for the teacher. After giving such thought to the Q at hand, she would reply: "I don't know".

Both excellent shots of the school environment.

lizzard_nyc · January 21, 2010

adbsgicom wrote:

Not sure how much is there to crop in the first without it just being a close-up of the young lady, but point taken. The second may benefit from a 1x1 crop. Knowing the kids (advantage of a 130-ish child school), the youngster in the second wasn't posing. She was actively getting some feedback on a writing project from the teacher and the expression was a happy accident in terms of capturing it. My rule in the rooms was I wouldn't take your picture if you were posing for me, or not following directions/class rules.

Thank you for the feedback on these.

FYI--On #1 I was saying "leave it as is" I like your crop.

adbsgicom · January 21, 2010

lizzard_nyc wrote:

#1 definately works--love the expression --I think for the image to work though the body of the teacher/person is necessary, especially because it's "looming" infront of the child.

I like #2 also--but on initial impression I thought she was posing--still cute though.

I see you and I are on the same boat as far as getting away from "say cheese" shots.

Thanks. I've been trying to help the school with some better images than what they are getting with their couple of CoolPix cameras that float around the staff. Looking at other school brochures, though, I've noticed how many are pictures of the kids posing with their classwork on the desk, but not of them involved with each other, or involved in their work. These latter types are much harder (only got a few really good ones that captures facial expression and context), but there's a certain amount of fun in just trying (and knowing that even some of my fails are still good relatively speaking).

Rainbow, thanks. 90% is luck/just being there and knowing the kids well enough that my being there isn't disruptive. I don't think she was actually busted for anything; I think she was just really earnestly explaining something to her art teacher.

adbsgicom · January 21, 2010

lizzard_nyc wrote:

FYI--On #1 I was saying "leave it as is" I like your crop.

Yeah, I figured that out. I was typing my reply to the first two when yours came across. Might burning her shirt a bit help reduce the distraction of her shoulder?

lizzard_nyc · January 21, 2010

adbsgicom wrote:

Yeah, I figured that out. I was typing my reply to the first two when yours came across. Might burning her shirt a bit help reduce the distraction of her shoulder?

I'm not distracted by her shoulder

.

rainbow · January 21, 2010

adbsgicom wrote:

I don't think she was actually busted for anything; I think she was just really earnestly explaining something to her art teacher.

Yeah. How it was an accident that Johnny has paint on his nose and clothes...

Actually, on repeat viewing I really like the boy behind her looking at the teacher ("Ya gonna buy her story AGAIN!).

My favorite shots are when they are so used to you and your camera that you no longer get the glances or the cheesy smiles. Some people are so trained in cheesy smiles, though, that it takes persistence.

adbsgicom · January 21, 2010

rainbow wrote:

Yeah. How it was an accident that Johnny has paint on his nose and clothes... Actually, on repeat viewing I really like the boy behind her looking at the teacher ("Ya gonna buy her story AGAIN!).

My favorite shots are when they are so used to you and your camera that you no longer get the glances or the cheesy smiles. Some people are so trained in cheesy smiles, though, that it takes persistence.

Notice that there is a child cropped out to the left... The kid behind her really does have a great look of skepticism, doesn't he.

rutt · January 21, 2010

#1 is very nice and a really interesting angle. #2 would work better if you could recover some of the blown flesh tones.

adbsgicom · January 21, 2010

Rutt, are you talking about the tones on the girl, or the arm of the teacher in the second one? Her arm is bit bright, and I guess the CR side of the girls face may be a bit bright (not much on my monitor). B&W conversions are still pretty new to me, so trying to get the intensity right.

rutt · January 21, 2010

The girl in the middle.

Just take the green channel for starters and curve from there. You'll be amazed now much more you can get from faces, especially very light skinned people.

adbsgicom · January 21, 2010

Guess this means I'll have to give up the ghost of doing it in LR... Or get much more clever on the use of the sliders for balancing it.

rutt · January 22, 2010

If you have PS and LR both, learn to use PS. If you are stuck with LR alone, I don't know how to do good conversions.

AndMan · January 22, 2010

Love #1 for the girl's expression and I agree that the teacher needs to be there to tell the story. Having helped out in primary schools (grade schools? 5-11 year olds) on a number of occasions I recognise the "explaining to the slow grown up" (usually me) look.

michswiss · January 22, 2010

rutt wrote:

If you have PS and LR both, learn to use PS. If you are stuck with LR alone, I don't know how to do good conversions.

I get adequate conversions out of Aperture. I'm sure something equivalent must be possible in LR. These are good tools. I think most people haven't played with these tools with a workflow in mind instead of just looking for a plug in. Also, I think there's a nervousness to pushing a conversion to explore what's in the image including the green, red and blue channels. PS isn't really a requirement to get a good result for online use or casual printing.

I'll normally work with someone else (usually in PS) if I'm going to do a final printing of an image for a buyer. Paper choices, size and display settings will play a role.

Edit to add that I think I prefer the first image if it had a bit more space. The second is the more straight forward. But despite the situation, it feels too predicable. There isn't much tension or enough humour.

bdcolen · January 22, 2010

lizzard_nyc wrote:

I'm not distracted by her shoulder .

Either am I. And actually the shoulder, and the back in the other image well convey the overwhelming presence of the adults in the kids' world.

adbsgicom · January 22, 2010

Thanks again. I do have CS, but when possible, I like to keep what I can in LR since it is undoable easily, and can easily be reapplied to other images. More learning on how various parts of the flow map is needed.
Thanks for the feedback on the first's composition My initial though as that her back was essential in the picture and that's how I took the picture intentionally.

Flyinggina · January 22, 2010

Another vote for leaving #1 as is compositionally.

I like the second one too. For some reason it didn't occur to me that she was posing. Kids that age tend to do the smilie thing or mug outrageously while looking straight at the camera. They rarely follow a photographer's directions as to expression!

Va

Dogdots · January 23, 2010

Love that expression on the girls face in #1

bdcolen · January 23, 2010

adbsgicom wrote:

Thanks again. I do have CS, but when possible, I like to keep what I can in LR since it is undoable easily, and can easily be reapplied to other images. More learning on how various parts of the flow map is needed.
Thanks for the feedback on the first's composition My initial though as that her back was essential in the picture and that's how I took the picture intentionally.

I think Rutt does amazing things with PS, but I also think he sells Lightroom short - very short.

rutt · January 23, 2010

bdcolen wrote:

I think Rutt does amazing things with PS, but I also think he sells Lightroom short - very short.

Gotta respond to this. LR might be fine. I'm never really going to know. I have invested a lot of work in a fine tuned PS workflow and in understanding what's going on under the hood. LR is frustrating for me because I have to throw everything away and relearn in order to use it. It's missing some of the tools I find most fundamental. What can I say? It may well be as much about me.

One thing is for sure, I can help PS users more than I can help LR users. And I do like to help people with post processing. So that's just a fact.

B.D. will be happy to help you if you insist on doing your post in LR.

Tina Manley · January 23, 2010

bdcolen wrote:

I think Rutt does amazing things with PS, but I also think he sells Lightroom short - very short.

LR is amazing. I learn more about it every day. Of course, that is true of PS, too! The more I learn about LR, the less I use PS, though. Each has its strong points. If you are only working on only one photo, you can probably do more in PS, if you already know it. If you are working on trying to edit and process a whole batch of photos, LR is by far the best. I think the beta LR3 is a huge improvement. I rarely take photos into PS now but YMMV!

Tina

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