HDR Help, please

GoofBckt · February 12, 2010

I'm just beginning to venture into HDR territory using Photomatix Light. I'm a little confused though . . . (I'm blonde too, so consider the source) . . .
what is the difference between a tone-mapped photo and an HDR photo?
Also, what I've been doing is opening photos and making minor adjustments in RAW (except exposure), then converting to PSD and using 3 AEB photos at 2 stops difference for the HDR. Is that the right? I did read somewhere that you can create HDR photos directly from JPGs too. Which is the best way? Clear as mud? :scratch Thanks, my people.

GoofBckt · February 12, 2010

Here's my first sample to bash. Don't bother to critique the subject matter or composition, just the HDR factor

ok?.

GoofBckt wrote:

I'm just beginning to venture into HDR territory using Photomatix Light. I'm a little confused though . . . (I'm blonde too, so consider the source) . . .
what is the difference between a tone-mapped photo and an HDR photo?
Also, what I've been doing is opening photos and making minor adjustments in RAW (except exposure), then converting to PSD and using 3 AEB photos at 2 stops difference for the HDR. Is that the right? I did read somewhere that you can create HDR photos directly from JPGs too. Which is the best way? Clear as mud? Thanks, my people.

The Mack · February 12, 2010

GoofBckt wrote:

Here's my first sample to bash. Don't bother to critique the subject matter or composition, just the HDR factor ok?.

I highly recommend you look up the Stuck In Customs tutorial. It will have all the info you need.

However, the subject and composition is a big part of nailing an HDR photo.

GoofBckt · February 12, 2010

I realize that, but these were strictly practice shots I took on my lunch hour so I could just learn the technical part of the HDR process later. Where is the Stuck in Customs Tutorial please? can you point me to it?

quote=The Mack]I highly recommend you look up the Stuck In Customs tutorial. It will have all the info you need.

However, the subject and composition is a big part of nailing an HDR photo.[/quote]

The Mack · February 12, 2010

GoofBckt wrote:

I realize that, but these were strictly practice shots I took on my lunch hour so I could just learn the technical part of the HDR process later. Where is the Stuck in Customs Tutorial please? can you point me to it?

quote=The Mack]I highly recommend you look up the Stuck In Customs tutorial. It will have all the info you need.

However, the subject and composition is a big part of nailing an HDR photo.

[/QUOTE]
You could google it, but it's www.stuckincustoms.com

pathfinder · February 13, 2010

GoofBckt wrote:

I'm just beginning to venture into HDR territory using Photomatix Light. I'm a little confused though . . . (I'm blonde too, so consider the source) . . .
what is the difference between a tone-mapped photo and an HDR photo?
Also, what I've been doing is opening photos and making minor adjustments in RAW (except exposure), then converting to PSD and using 3 AEB photos at 2 stops difference for the HDR. Is that the right? I did read somewhere that you can create HDR photos directly from JPGs too. Which is the best way? Clear as mud? Thanks, my people.

Carrie,
I suspect there are lots of variations and differences in how folks process their RAW images to final hdr rendered jpgs. Like you I am just really learning how to do this. The stuck in customs site has a lot of great images.

I do shoot mine in 3 RAW frames at 0, -2, +2 stops. I do not usually shoot 5 or seven frames 1 stop apart, generally, but I can see that if you are shooting very bright sunlight and very deep shade that might be advantageous. I use AEB, and one of the reasons I do not shoot 6 or 7 frame brackets is concern about camera movement with that much adjustment.

I use Photomatix Pro v 3.2.7 for the Mac

I take my three RAW files - unedited, unprocessed as they came from the camera- and drag them into Photomatix which then displays a dialogue box asking if I want to create an HDR image, or Fuse exposures, or Open the files only. I click on the Generate an HDR image, and sit back and drink my tea. A new dialogue box opens and displays the files which I dragged to the Photomatix icon. Or you could just select files from this dialogue box. I just click OK and go on the next step.

Another new dialogue box pops up asking me if I want to align source images, reduce chromatic aberration, reduce noise, etc. I click ok again, hit the Generate HDR button, and continue to drink my tea. A new box comes up saying working, working, working, until finally a new image appears on my desktop. This image looks funky as it is a true 32 bit image, which cannot be accurately displayed on any monitor.

So I ignore it, and click on Tone Mapping in the new dialogue box that pops up beside the hdr image. I use the Details Enhancer mode which has enough buttons and sliders to drive you crazy trying to figure them out. So I do not use them:D To the right of my image, is a histogram display with Luminosity, Red, Green and Blue channels. I will use all of these in processing this 32bit hdr image to a 16 bit tonemapped tiff.

I set my strength to 80, Color Saturation to the middle at 50, Luminosity at 0, and Micro contrast at 0

I set Smoothing to the medium or high radio button. You have to check the Light Mode button to see radio buttons for smoothing. Using the lower values will create wild halos if that is what you want. I don't.

I use the histogram that V3.2.7 offers to set my white point, my black point and my gamma. I want the histogram in each of the R,G,B channels to reach from left to right with most of the tones somewhere in between which is adjusted with the gamma slider.

I set Micro-Smoothing at 0.2, and Highlight smoothness, Shadows smoothness, and Shadows clipping to 0 --- and hit the "process" button at the bottom. I save the final file as a 16 bit tone mapped tiff. It will look awful - flat and very low contrast, and without a great deal of color. That is fine, because I will render all that in Adobe Camera Raw and Photoshop.

I open the tiff in ACR and dial back the contrast and increase the fill light a lot. Now it looks really flat, but overlay blending in PS will put things right. I sharpen and do chromatic aberration correction in ACR as well. After all this, I send the file on into Photoshop as a 16 bit ProPhoto jpg for final editing.

I am not saying this is "the correct workflow for hdrs", only that this is how I approach them at this time. I am sure lots of folks will chime in and explain all the things I am doing wrong. And I am sure a year from now we will all have learned more new tricks in ways of processing RAW files for hdr.

I am not sure I understand the value of creating hdr from jpgs - jpgs are 8 bit files and would seem to have vastly smaller data sets than RAW images for creating a 32 bit high def hdr image. Certainly, RAW files have significantly more headspace, more resistance to over exposure, than jpgs.

I do shoot jpgs for drive by panorama creations at times - if the SOOC jpgs are of good quality, and all with the same manual white balance, and manual exposure settings that were accurate, then jpgs work pretty well for panos, but not for hdrs as I understand them.

These are images of mine created with three RAW files as I discussed above.

[imgl]http://pathfinder.smugmug.com/Landscapes/Terre-Haute-Alleys-and-Back/slide-in-the-snow-MG09698/761222685_k4U97-XL.jpg[/imgl][imgr]http://pathfinder.smugmug.com/Landscapes/Cataract-Falls-with-Chris-Jan/graffiti-tunnel-2/756979908_QWkwg-XL.jpg[/imgr]

There are several more in this gallery as well - http://pathfinder.smugmug.com/Landscapes/Terre-Haute-Alleys-and-Back/10826679_HayaG#761964452_SgseT

Your image certainly has captured highlights to shadows - I might dial back the color saturation a notch or two. You might not think that after looking at my image though:D

GoofBckt · February 13, 2010

You are awesome for writing all that!! I can tell that Photomatix Pro has alot more bells and whistles than the Light version. I love your photo and I think you're right about the saturation in mine. I tend to overdo on that sometimes. I have noticed that more often than not, people are using WA lenses then creating HDR photos. Do you agree? Gives it a surreal look.

pathfinder wrote:

Carrie,
I suspect there are lots of variations and differences in how folks process their RAW images to final hdr rendered jpgs.

I do shoot mine in 3 RAW frames at 0, -2, +2 stops. I do not usually shoot 5 or seven frames 1 stop apart, generally, but I can see that if you are shooting very bright sunlight and very deep shade that might be advantageous. I use AEB, and one of the reasons I do not shoot 6 or 7 frame brackets is concern about camera movement with that much adjustment.

I use Photomatix Pro v 3.2.7 for the Mac

I take my three RAW files - unedited, unprocessed as they came from the camera- and drag them into Photomatix which then displays a dialogue box asking if I want to create an HDR image, or Fuse exposures, or Open the files only. I click on the Generate an HDR image, and sit back and drink my tea. A new dialogue box opens and displays the files which I dragged to the Photomatix icon. Or you could just select files from this dialogue box. I just click OK and go on the next step.

Another new dialogue box pops up asking me if I want to align source images, reduce chromatic aberration, reduce noise, etc. I click ok again, hit the Generate HDR button, and continue to drink my tea. A new box comes up saying working, working, working, until finally a new image appears on my desktop. This image looks funky as it is a true 32 bit image, which cannot be accurately displayed on any monitor.

So I ignore it, and click on Tone Mapping in the new dialogue box that pops up beside the hdr image. I use the Details Enhancer mode which has enough buttons and sliders to drive you crazy trying to figure them out. So I do not use them:D To the right of my image, is a histogram display with Luminosity, Red, Green and Blue channels. I will use all of these in processing this 32bit hdr image to a 16 bit tonemapped tiff.

I set my strength to 80, Color Saturation to the middle at 50, Luminosity at 0, and Micro contrast at 0

I set Smoothing to the medium or high radio button. You have to check the Light Mode button to see radio buttons for smoothing. Using the lower values will create wild halos if that is what you want. I don't.

I use the histogram that V3.2.7 offers to set my white point, my black point and my gamma. I want the histogram in each of the R,G,B channels to reach from left to right with most of the tones somewhere in between which is adjusted with the gamma slider.

I set Micro-Smoothing at 0.2, and Highlight smoothness, Shadows smoothness, and Shadows clipping to 0 --- and hit the "process" button at the bottom. I save the final file as a 16 bit tone mapped tiff. It will look awful - flat and very low contrast, and without a great deal of color. That is fine, because I will render all that in Adobe Camera Raw and Photoshop.

I open the tiff in ACR and dial back the contrast and increase the fill light a lot. Now it looks really flat, but overlay blending in PS will put things right. I sharpen and do chromatic aberration correction in ACR as well. After all this, I send the file on into Photoshop as a 16 bit ProPhoto jpg for final editing.

I am not saying this is "the correct workflow for hdrs", only that this is how I approach them at this time. I am sure lots of folks will chime in and explain all the things I am doing wrong. And I am sure a year from now we will all have learned more new tricks in ways of processing RAW files for hdr.

I am not sure I understand the value of creating hdr from jpgs - jpgs are 8 bit files and would seem to have vastly smaller data sets than RAW images for creating a 32 bit high def hdr image. Certainly, RAW files have significantly more headspace, more resistance to over exposure, than jpgs.

I do shoot jpgs for drive by panorama creations at times - if the SOOC jpgs are of good quality, and all with the same manual white balance, and manual exposure settings that were accurate, then jpgs work pretty well for panos, but not for hdrs as I understand them.

This is an image of mine created with three RAW files as I discussed above.

There are several more in this gallery as well - http://pathfinder.smugmug.com/Landscapes/Terre-Haute-Alleys-and-Back/10826679_HayaG#761964452_SgseT

Your image certainly has captured highlights to shadows - I might dial back the color saturation a notch or two. You might not think that after looking at my image though:D

pathfinder · February 13, 2010

Carrie, as I said, I am still learning and experimenting with my hdr work.

I have not yet taken the time to blend original images back into the tone mapped tiff in Photoshop like described in the tutorial in stick in customs. The author obviously has quite a bit of experience in hdr work, but blending various forms of the same image and masking them for your final creation is not that different from other ways of blending and editing images in Ps.

I will have to add those techniques to my quiver with hdr images.

Use a good, heavy tripod. One thing I have learned, is that hand held hdrs can be done with mild telephotos much better than with very wide angle lenses - in my hands anyway. Best is with a firm tripod. I just ordered a newer heavier one for hdr work.

This thread is really about processing, not Technique, so I will move it to Finishing School.

Wide angle lenses are used for landscape shooting more than teles, as a general vague kind of statement. And yes, I think I see more hdr work with wide angles than teles, but I do not think there is any inherent reason for this. You can even shoot macros, or close ups as hdrs...

GoofBckt · February 13, 2010

Would you be willing to share the link for that tripod? i'm curious.

pathfinder wrote:

Carrie, as I said, I am still learning and experimenting with my hdr work.

I have not yet taken the time to blend original images back into the tone mapped tiff in Photoshop like described in the tutorial in stick in customs. The author obviously has quite a bit of experience in hdr work, but blending various forms of the same image and masking them for your final creation is not that different from other ways of blending and editing images in Ps.

I will have to add those techniques to my quiver with hdr images.

Use a good, heavy tripod. One thing I have learned, is that hand held hdrs can be done with mild telephotos much better than with very wide angle lenses - in my hands anyway. Best is with a firm tripod. I just ordered a newer heavier one for hdr work.

This thread is really about processing, not Technique, so I will move it to Finishing School.

pathfinder · February 13, 2010

GoofBckt wrote:

Would you be willing to share the link for that tripod? i'm curious.

Carrie, I have several different sizes, but I ordered the one Scott Quier wrote about here on dgrin and bought himself. After reading his thread, and perusing their website I ordered one for me too http://www.feisol.net/feisol-threesection-tripod-ct3371-with-tripod-p-1.html

It is out of stock, and so I have not received it yet, but I am looking forward to it. I already have a BH-55 from RRS that I plan to use with it. Shooting HDRs was one of the reasons I wanted a larger, heavier tripod than the lighter Manfrotto and Gitzo that I already own.

The Mack · February 13, 2010

pathfinder wrote:

Carrie, I have several different sizes, but I ordered the one Scott Quier wrote about here on dgrin and bought himself. After reading his thread, and perusing their website I ordered one for me too http://www.feisol.net/feisol-threesection-tripod-ct3371-with-tripod-p-1.html

It is out of stock, and so I have not received it yet, but I am looking forward to it. I already have a BH-55 from RRS that I plan to use with it. Shooting HDRs was one of the reasons I wanted a larger, heavier tripod than the lighter Manfrotto and Gitzo that I already own.

Any tripod will do, but it's best to use a remote if possible.

I shoot from 3 to 10 photos, depends.

pathfinder · February 13, 2010

The Mack wrote:

Any tripod will do, but it's best to use a remote if possible.

I shoot from 3 to 10 photos, depends.

Or the camera's self timer, since many HDrs are not of moving targets. My tripod is due to arrive Monday. MTC

The Mack · February 13, 2010

pathfinder wrote:

Or the camera's self timer, since many HDrs are not of moving targets. My tripod is due to arrive Monday. MTC

Yes, if bracketing. If not, still prone to shake if you're not careful.

Moving targets have to be done via 1 raw file, unless you're just that good at photoshop.

GoofBckt · February 13, 2010

Thanks again, pathfinder, and for the link for the tripod. I know need to breakdown and get one, I've just been avoiding it.

pathfinder wrote:

Carrie, as I said, I am still learning and experimenting with my hdr work.

I have not yet taken the time to blend original images back into the tone mapped tiff in Photoshop like described in the tutorial in stick in customs. The author obviously has quite a bit of experience in hdr work, but blending various forms of the same image and masking them for your final creation is not that different from other ways of blending and editing images in Ps.

I will have to add those techniques to my quiver with hdr images.

Use a good, heavy tripod. One thing I have learned, is that hand held hdrs can be done with mild telephotos much better than with very wide angle lenses - in my hands anyway. Best is with a firm tripod. I just ordered a newer heavier one for hdr work.

This thread is really about processing, not Technique, so I will move it to Finishing School.

Wide angle lenses are used for landscape shooting more than teles, as a general vague kind of statement. And yes, I think I see more hdr work with wide angles than teles, but I do not think there is any inherent reason for this. You can even shoot macros, or close ups as hdrs...

HDR Help, please

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