Torn between a 7D and the T2i.

davev · March 13, 2010

Max to spend $1700

What I have now: 5DMKII, XSi, G10.
(The XSi is really my wife's but it is part of the whole question)
What I shoot: Mostly wildlife, anything in close the 5DMKII can take care of.
Lenses: I have a wide array of lenses for both a FF and Crop cameras.

I have been using a 5DMKII for a little over a year. It's a great camera.
But, I find even though I have all those megapixels, I end up cropping to much away from my wildlife
shots (because I can't get closer to my subjects) that I'm looking to get one of these two 18 megapixel
cameras for the extra pixels.

The 7D has a few more features that seems appealing, but I have lived without them this long, do I really need them? Say the 8 FPS or new focusing system.
Two big plus's though, the same battery as the 5DMKII, and CF cards. (as I have these already)

The T2i from what the specs show, has slightly better video, IQ about equal to the 7D. The smaller size isn't a problem cause I'd be putting a grip on it anyway.
But, this would mean another type of battery and charger in the bag.

So, the 7D for $1600 (with rebate) + a $70 battey = $1670.
Or the T2i for $800 + $160 for the grip + $70 for another battery + $100 for media = $1130
With the spare money, I was thinking of a Tokina 10-17 fisheye to bring the total up to about $1700

I honesty think that either camera will do the job. The extra frames and maybe not really knowing
how good the new focusing system is has me in this undecided area.

I really wish Canon would make one battery for all of there cameras.

I'm in no great hurry to buy either one, I have a couple of months before I'll be able to get out and shoot more.

Enitsugua · March 13, 2010

davev wrote:

Max to spend $1700

What I have now: 5DMKII, XSi, G10.
(The XSi is really my wife's but it is part of the whole question)
What I shoot: Mostly wildlife, anything in close the 5DMKII can take care of.
Lenses: I have a wide array of lenses for both a FF and Crop cameras.

I have been using a 5DMKII for a little over a year. It's a great camera.
But, I find even though I have all those megapixels, I end up cropping to much away from my wildlife
shots (because I can't get closer to my subjects) that I'm looking to get one of these two 18 megapixel
cameras for the extra pixels.

The 7D has a few more features that seems appealing, but I have lived without them this long, do I really need them? Say the 8 FPS or new focusing system.
Two big plus's though, the same battery as the 5DMKII, and CF cards. (as I have these already)

The T2i from what the specs show, has slightly better video, IQ about equal to the 7D. The smaller size isn't a problem cause I'd be putting a grip on it anyway.
But, this would mean another type of battery and charger in the bag.

So, the 7D for $1600 (with rebate) + a $70 battey = $1670.
Or the T2i for $800 + $160 for the grip + $70 for another battery + $100 for media = $1130
With the spare money, I was thinking of a Tokina 10-17 fisheye to bring the total up to about $1700

I honesty think that either camera will do the job. The extra frames and maybe not really knowing
how good the new focusing system is has me in this undecided area.

I really wish Canon would make one battery for all of there cameras.

I'm in no great hurry to buy either one, I have a couple of months before I'll be able to get out and shoot more.

Neither. Save up and buy a long lens. Or use the money you have to rent one for several days a few times during the year.

Cameron · March 13, 2010

What lens are you using for your wildlife stuff? I agree with Enitsugua that you may be better off just getting a longer lens. The $1,700 you're willing to drop on a 7D would buy some good glass.. While you may gain SOME reach with the T2i or 7D, you're already shooting with a fabulous camera. Neither would be considered an upgrade from what you have. Granted, the 7D does have a better focusing system and higher FPS, but I don't think that's worth buying it to supplement the 5DMK II. If you were a full-time pro and wanted a cheaper but extremely capable backup body I'd say go for the 7D..

That said, if you're set on getting a APS-C camera, I'd go with the 7D. The layout, control dials, etc will be MUCH more comparable to your 5DMK II making it a fairly seamless move back and forth between the two as far as ergonomics and such. As you mentioned, the batteries are the same as well. Besides, if you're going to spend money on another camera to improve your wildlife pics you may as well get the one with better auto-focus.

borrowlenses.com · March 13, 2010

The 7D is more suited to wildlife shooting than the 5D and the T2i. What lens are you shooting with primarily?

davev · March 13, 2010

Lenses:

Canon 18-55 is
Canon 50mm macro
Canon 28-105
Canon 135 f2.8 SF
Canon 70-300is
Canon 24-105L
Canon 28-300Lis
Canon 100-400Lis
Canon 300L f2.8
Canon 2X tc (most of the time it's on the 300 f2.8 to make a 600 f5.6)
Tamron 17-50 f2.8
Tamron 18-200
Sigma 80-400os

There may be a few more, but as you can see, I'm not hurting for lenses.

I mainly use the 300 f2.8 with the 2X tc.
The problem is, I end up cropping the heck out of a lot of my shots.
I have eagle shots from last year taken with the 5DMKII where you start out with 5600 pixels
on the long side, but I ended up cropping down to about 2000 - 2400 usable pixels.

So, help me with the math, if I crop a 5DMKII shot down to 2400 pixels long side, that same exact
shot taken with either a 7D or T2i, cropped at the same prospective, should give me 60% more pixels?
So instead of having to work with 2400 pixels, I'd have about 3800.

The math maybe wrong to a point, but I think you get my drift.

Quick example:

the full frame shot from the 5DMKII.

after the crop (and some post work)

So just using the math of that good old crop factor, if my 300 + the 2X tc =600, then on the crop
cameras it would "seem" like a 960mm.

So if the 5DMKII has 5616 pixels, the 7D has 5184 on the long side, with the sensor difference of
about 10%, I'll guess that my lens should be equal to 864mm on the crop camera after allowing
for the amount of pixels on the sensor.
So would I not be ripping the rewards of more pixels in my cropped shot at a fraction of the price of a 500, 600, or 800mm lens?

I hope you folks can refrain from telling me to sell this or that lens to finance another lens.
I have the lens line that I want. I use different lenses for different subjects.

Thanks.

Enitsugua · March 14, 2010

davev wrote:

Lenses:

Canon 18-55 is
Canon 50mm macro
Canon 28-105
Canon 135 f2.8 SF
Canon 70-300is
Canon 24-105L
Canon 28-300Lis
Canon 100-400Lis
Canon 300L f2.8
Canon 2X tc (most of the time it's on the 300 f2.8 to make a 600 f5.6)
Tamron 17-50 f2.8
Tamron 18-200
Sigma 80-400os

There may be a few more, but as you can see, I'm not hurting for lenses.

I mainly use the 300 f2.8 with the 2X tc.
The problem is, I end up cropping the heck out of a lot of my shots....I hope you folks can refrain from telling me to sell this or that lens to finance another lens.
I have the lens line that I want. I use different lenses for different subjects.

Thanks.

With all those lenses, money must not be an obstacle. Just buy the new body you are set on. There, now that I've told you what you want to hear....

What you should do (and don't want to hear) is sell off many of those lenses and get a decent wildlife lens that will do what you want it to do. You don't need all those duplicative lenses. I could give you a list of what I would keep, but you ultimately have to decide (hint, I'd keep only 4, maybe 5 of the items on your list). And a good long lens is going to give you much better results than a new body.

Jane B. · March 14, 2010

Enitsugua wrote:

What you should do (and don't want to hear) is sell off many of those lenses and get a decent wildlife lens that will do what you want it to do. You don't need all those duplicative lenses. I could give you a list of what I would keep, but you ultimately have to decide (hint, I'd keep only 4, maybe 5 of the items on your list). And a good long lens is going to give you much better results than a new body.

You are forgetting that his wife also shoots and they share lenses. So . . . there are times when they both have a lens of similar range in use.

Jane B.

davev · March 14, 2010

Enitsugua wrote:

With all those lenses, money must not be an obstacle. Just buy the new body you are set on. There, now that I've told you what you want to hear....

What you should do (and don't want to hear) is sell off many of those lenses and get a decent wildlife lens that will do what you want it to do. You don't need all those duplicative lenses. I could give you a list of what I would keep, but you ultimately have to decide (hint, I'd keep only 4, maybe 5 of the items on your list). And a good long lens is going to give you much better results than a new body.

I say that I own all these .... but you need to remember that these are my and my wife's lenses.
There are a couple of lenses that will be leaving the roost when the weather breaks, but the timing
isn't right, right now.

I should also add that these lenses were bought over 7 or 8 years.

The problem with anything bigger than the 300 with a 2X tc, I lose the ability to handhold my shots.
So then you start getting more things into the equation like tripod, ballheads, Wimberley's, the price
of that bigger lens is growing.
The even bigger problem I have when using a tripod is that I end up losing my mobility.
I just don't move after I set it up, and for my, hit and run style of shooting, that's not good.

Anyway, the things fell into place today and I bought the 7D with a 28-135is kit for $1599.
I know I don't need another lens, but if I'm getting basically for free, why not.

The kicker was the fact that this camera will control my 2 - 420EX flashes while I'm in the studio.
Next weekend I'll try to do a little crop test to see how much I actually gain when I crop.

If anyone else likes the kit I'm getting, I'm buying it through Newegg.
Place it in the cart and use this code " EMCYPZN22 "
Be sure that this is what you want, Newegg charges a 15% restocking fee.
3 day shipping is $5.00.

davev · March 14, 2010

Jane B. wrote:

You are forgetting that his wife also shoots and they share lenses. So . . . there are times when they both have a lens of similar range in use.

Jane B.

You snuck in there while I was typing my reply.

Thanks for pointing it out.

Cameron · March 15, 2010

Congrats - given your needs and lenses it seems that's a great choice. You got a great deal on that kit too. I've loving my 7D and I think you'll like it as well. Let us know what you think!

davev · March 15, 2010

CSwinton wrote:

Congrats - given your needs and lenses it seems that's a great choice. You got a great deal on that kit too. I've loving my 7D and I think you'll like it as well. Let us know what you think!

Will do.
I'm hoping to have some time this weekend to do a little test between the 5DMKII and the 7D for cropping shots.
I'll post what I find in this thread.

davev · March 19, 2010

I've had the 7D for a day now ... I see a big learning curve.
The new focusing system is going to take some time for me to figure out.
I'm used to just putting it on center focus and forgetting about it.
But with spot focus and a few more things, I'm going to have to read the manual it get it right in my head.

The reason I bought the 7D, is to have more pixels left after I crop.

These are 2 100% crops (pixel to pixel on screen) shots taken from a 5DMKII and the 7D.
I had my 28-300 mounted on a tripod about 19 feet away from the scene.
I snapped a few shots with one camera, switched cameras, then snapped a few more.

7D

5DMKII

I also had a ruler in the scene so I could get some hard numbers.

At 7 inches of length at that distance, the 5DMKII uses 1440 pixels to capture it, the 7D uses 2140 pixels.
So with the lenses that I own, I basically gain about 49% more pixels as long as the the shot was going
to be cropped down a large amount.
For me, and the way that wildlife runs away from me,

this should help me out.

Just so you don't think all I do is test, here are a couple of shots.

My girl Stella.

Flood waters coming up.

Ok, one more test, ISO 6400 with some noise reduction helping it out.
(ISO 12,800 is hopeless, I could not clean it up)

ian408 · March 19, 2010

I Was going to suggest a longer lens then remembered your shooting style doesn't lend itself to weight.

For those that don't know, Dave can pretty much shoot action shots in a black room hand held. I'm not kidding, he's got good technique and is steady as a rock!

Good luck with the new rig and let us know how it works in the field.

Jane B. · March 19, 2010

davev wrote:

I've had the 7D for a day now ... I see a big learning curve.
The new focusing system is going to take some time for me to figure out.

Ok, one more test, ISO 6400 with some noise reduction helping it out.
(ISO 12,800 is hopeless, I could not clean it up)

I really like your choice of subject for this last shot given the learning curve you expect.

Enjoy
Jane B.

davev · March 20, 2010

ian408 wrote:

I Was going to suggest a longer lens then remembered your shooting style doesn't lend itself to weight.

For those that don't know, Dave can pretty much shoot action shots in a black room hand held. I'm not kidding, he's got good technique and is steady as a rock!

Good luck with the new rig and let us know how it works in the field.

Ha. That may be a bit of a stretch, but thanks for the vote of confidence.

I went out today to take some pics, but it's a tough go.
My usual places are bracing for flood waters, so roads are closed, and there is no access aloud.
I took a few shots cause I felt I had to to take something.

Downtown Saint Paul.
Taken with the 7D and a Canon 24-105is lens.

A couple of geese.
Taken with the 7D and a Canon 300 f2.8 with a Canon 2X tc.
Backlit scene so a bit of PS was used to brighten the darks.

I hope to find something worthwhile to shoot tomorrow.

ian408 · March 20, 2010

Hope all you Minnesota folks are safe!

kewlcanon · March 20, 2010

Link to all about Canon 7D.
Here is a link full of info about 7D. For AF watch videos from B&H and Canon.

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=768556

Enjoy!.

davev · March 27, 2010

Took a while to get back to this.

Ian, this is kind of the "now" yearly flood.
It's becoming more and more common. I'm not saying that that's good, but the same places
get it more and more often.

Kewlcanon, thanks for the links. I'll be looking through them soon.

One last shot.

7D, Canon 300 f2.8is, Canon 2X tc, Quantaray 2X tc, manual exposure, manual focus, f8, 1/100, iso 320 ... handheld.
Figuring the crop factor, it's about a 1920mm.
Maybe I am that good.:D

Ok, I'm just showing off now.

Bigger size here: LINK

Robertk · March 27, 2010

Wow!

ziggy53 · March 27, 2010

Dave, that's an awesome capture of the moon. I am impressed at how well the Quantaray extender performed in addition to all of the other optics.

Good stuff.

Ann McRae · March 27, 2010

Yup, just showing off.

Davev, it took me quite a long time to feel comfortable with the focusing on the 7D but I like it alot now. Congrats.

ann

davev · March 27, 2010

Ann McRae wrote:

Yup, just showing off.

Davev, it took me quite a long time to feel comfortable with the focusing on the 7D but I like it alot now. Congrats.

ann

Thanks everyone.

Ann, how do you have your focusing set up?
I'm just going with what I know so far. Middle point, no extensions, no spot, no expansion.

Like I say, I need to do some reading.
I know there's a lot to this camera that I'm not using.

iso 1600, f8, 1/25, handheld, kit lens - 28-135is, monochrome picture style.
(wanted to see what it would look like in B&W before I got home)

Torn between a 7D and the T2i.

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