Street and PJ Questions--No pics from me.

ckaspar · April 22, 2010

I have been lurking among this forum for a few days. Some of the shots in here are just amazing. I had a few questions for all of you folks.

I am having several problems with actually seeing myself do this type of photography. Now while I am not a shy person the main problem I am having is just building up the courage to go and take a picture of a random stranger in a setting where they may or may not want you to photograph them. What kinds of reactions have you guys gotten when doing so? What do you say if someone gets pissed at you for doing so? How are you guys doing so as not to be intrusive? How do you avoid feeling like "the creepy guy with a camera"?

These are a few I have so far. Depending on the answers I get from you guys I may have more.

Thanks in advance.

mikepenn · April 22, 2010

Getting the courage to get close is something you'll build up the more you do it. Don't fall into the group that uses a zoom lens so they don't have to get close. Another way to overcome the fear of getting close is to give yourself no other option but to get really close and use a wide lens, something between 17 and 20mm. I've been shooting street for a year and a half now in Philadelphia and New York City and I haven't had anyone scream at me or say don't take my picture. I have had people try to avoid being captured. Sometimes to get a good capture you have to shoot from the waist. You want to blend into your surroundings. Also lose the neck strap and get a wrist strap. Part of the fun for this type of photography is being in the middle of the action and if you're not close enough to get the shot don't worry there will always be another one.

sabesh · April 22, 2010

I use a combination of close-ups and long FL shots. I suppose that the purists will say that you have to be up close to get the shot. However, in a lot of cases, that "candid" moment will be gone once you approach a person doing something interesting. Also, shooting from the waist/hip is similar to using a Tele zoom lens, IMHO, as they both entail stealth.

If you really want to get in someone's face, do what Bruce Gilden does

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRBARi09je8

The more you do it, the more comfortable you will become at getting closeups. I've been given dirty looks and even yelled at. But that's about it. I just walk away in some cases, as there's no point stating your case, lol. However, sometimes I do stick around and establish a banter with them. Just go with what you feel. Each situation is different. Cheers.

TonyCooper · April 23, 2010

You didn't say where you are. Mike Penn, BD, Michswiss, and some of the other regular posters shoot in NYC,
Boston, Philly, and other major urban areas. I've been to those places, and my impression is that people there
don't pay much attention to the people around them. Many of them avoid as much as even eye contact with
other people on the street. I suppose we all feel the grass is greener, but I really feel it's easier to get close
in those urban environments.

I shoot in Orlando, Florida. I think Orlando's a totally different hunting ground for the candid shooter. I don't
often have the luxury of picking a subject out of a crowd unless I want to photograph tourists on I-Drive
or at the beach, and those shots don't interest me. (And I hate going down to the tourist area on I-Drive)

I can use the short lens at large gatherings, but waiting for those restricts my ability to just go out and take photos.

Unless I want my subject looking directly at me, and smiling and waving at the camera, I have to lurk around corners
or use my longer lens for real candids. When I'm out for candids, I carry two cameras: one with a 18/55mm
lens and one with a 55/200mm lens. I'd prefer to get close and use the short lens, but the 55/200 is my money lens for candids.

As far as confrontations with subjects, I've never really had one. It's just as likely here for the subject to come up
to me and want to look at the LCD screen to see what I took and to chat with me. I've been waved off, and I just wave back
and move on. I'd be willing to delete an image if asked, but I've never been asked to. I have been asked to email
the subject the photo, and I've done so.

The gist of what I'm saying is that you'll have to adjust your shooting style to the locale. You can stand near a subway
entrance/exit and fire away and most people will not notice you and keep walking. If you're more out in the open, you
might find the longer lens more productive.
Or, you can go for the image of people who are aware of your presence and don't mind. I prefer the more candid image.

Your style will evolve, and part of the way it evolves will be because of where you shoot.

Just trying to give you another perspective on the subject.

TonyCooper · April 23, 2010

Let me add to my post...I think it's easier to get close to the subject in an urban area, but I do not
mean that it's easier to get better photographs. That depends on the photographer's eye to what
will be a good photograph...and some luck.

rainbow · April 23, 2010

It is a fun and certainly interesting genre. And you never can anticipate the results and can shoot some very interesting shots, as you have noticed.

So you have to want to go out and do it, overcoming fears and doubts. But take it slow. Find a logical venue for your early experiences. Street fairs, festivals, and places where tourists frequent are good starting places with plenty of subjects and plenty of other cameras. Then be casual and confident about taking the photos. You can stand in an area and point the camera in different directions before taking the subject that interests you. You can talk to people and blend into the crowd while raising the camera occasionally. At some point you will find your comfort level and can slowly challenge yourself to extend your limits slowly.

BTW, I now try to carry a point & shoot (Panasonic LX3) always to not miss shots because my DSLR is at home. It is also an easier one to shoot street with due to the unimposing nature compared with a DSLR.

Good luck. I hope you give it a try.

Richard · April 23, 2010

Welcome to the street

.

Here are a couple of good threads you might want to read:

Strategies for street photography
The Super Secret Spy Lens

Check out the sticky at the top of the forum for more tips and a few exercises that you might find helpful.

My advice is to do whatever you are comfortable with to get started. If you develop a taste for street photography, you will find that it gets easier with practice.

ckaspar · April 23, 2010

Hey all,

I just wanted to say thank you for the posts and suggestions. I live in Southern California, North Long Beach to be exact. It is about 20 miles from LA, which I rarely go to. I can see how shooting Manhattan or something would provide more opportunities to get a good candid shot. Most of the areas I frequent are not anywhere near as busy.

I think I have a possible solution for me to get started. I tend to shoot a bunch of Remote Controlled Car races. There are typically over 100 people at the events and most of the people are so engrossed in their vehicles that they would barely take notice of my presence. I figure that if I walk up and just snap a pic real quick I can get some good shots without the typical "silly face" pose I would tend to get.

Gonna have to try that and give it a shot.

Any tips for composition? I don't want to take 100 shots at the next race only to find that they are all trash because of some obvious to you but not obvious to me rule.

Thanks again for the tips. I will keep you guys posted with any results I get.

bdcolen · April 23, 2010

ckaspar wrote:

I have been lurking among this forum for a few days. Some of the shots in here are just amazing. I had a few questions for all of you folks.

I am having several problems with actually seeing myself do this type of photography. Now while I am not a shy person the main problem I am having is just building up the courage to go and take a picture of a random stranger in a setting where they may or may not want you to photograph them. What kinds of reactions have you guys gotten when doing so? What do you say if someone gets pissed at you for doing so? How are you guys doing so as not to be intrusive? How do you avoid feeling like "the creepy guy with a camera"?

These are a few I have so far. Depending on the answers I get from you guys I may have more.

Thanks in advance.

Welcome! Let me second virtually everything Mikepenn has said, and add to it a bit.
First rule of street photography - zoom with your feet, not your lens. Pick a focal length - Mike likes something around 20 mm, I prefer something in the 28-50ish range. But the point is to pick a focal length and get used to it; doing so will help you both with framing and with grab shots from the waist;

Second rule is recognize that the fact that something is happening in public doesn't in and of itself make it worth shooting.

That is to say, a fat man eating a big mac is a fat man eating a big mac. And the fact that he's on a street corner just makes him a fat man on a street corner eating a big mac, it doesn't automatically make him into an interesting photographic subject - unless you are simply trying to make fun of him. Which brings me to...

Third rule of street photography - which should be the first rule: respect your subjects. (Okay, this isn't in everyone's rule book; in fact none of these rules are in everyone's rule book) Photos that make fun of people are, in my estimation, abusive. This is not to say that funny photos aren't good photos. But it is to say, avoid cheap shots.

Fourth rule - A photo better be pretty damn amazing for it to be worth a punch in the nose or a confrontation with an angry cop. LEGALLY, you can shoot anything, anywhere, as long as the anywhere is public property. If someone says, 'you don't have my permission to take my photo,' you can say 'I don't need your permission' and be on safe legal ground. HOWEVER - once that confrontation has occurred, any chance of capturing what you wanted to capture is gone, so why bother with the confrontation? As Mike said, in most cases people will just turn away from you, or walk away. And if that happens, I would say DO NOT CONTINUE TO TRY TO PHOTOGRAPH THEM. (But that's me.) In a full year of shooting daily on the Boston subway system the closest I came to a confrontation was a woman giving me the finger. I had a few people turn away, or move away; most people never acknowledged my presence.

Shooting with a telephoto: Don't do it. It's sniping; and, in most cases its an admission that you are uncomfortable doing street photography. If you're that uncomfortable on the street, find another type of photography. You can do real street photography anywhere, not just in Manhattan. I do most of my shooting in Boston, Cambridge, and Brookline, Mass. Boston and Cambridge are urban - although they are a far cry from NYC, but Brookline is an urban suburb, with often near empty stretches of sidewalk.
Street photography is not about a place, it is an ethos, a state of mind, an approach to photography. You can take "street photographs" anywhere you find people. You can even use the style indoors.

(With all of this said, the photos W. Eugene Smith took from an upper story window with a 400 mm telephoto of street life in Manhattan's flower district are mind blowing. But if you're going to do street photography, get up close and personal.)

Shyness/nervousness - I know I suffer from it; Mikepenn says he does. I'd guess most people do. I won't say 'get over it;' I'll say learn to live with it.

Oh - Bruce Gilden. I personally find Bruce Gilden's work appalling, and find his style of working abusive. Firing a flash in someone's face and contending that you are revealing something about them is inane - not to put too fine a point on it. All you're revealing is that everyone looks shocked/surprised/ugly/ when a flash is fired right in their face. One of these days he's going to get punched out and will richly deserve it.

michswiss · April 23, 2010

There's not much else to add to what's already been posted.

I currently live in Shanghai. It's accorded me an amazing training ground to learn. But I also shoot in smaller cities in China as well as comparatively empty areas in Australia and New Zealand when I'm home. Street is definitely a state of mind. I'll usually give myself one or two objectives before I head out and I'll take a couple of "warm up" shots to refresh focal lengths and exposure elements. But emotionally I'm drilling myself with a variety of thoughts. Here are some of the things that run through my head on the street.

- Be deliberate
- Be honest and genuine in what you're doing
- Smiles and a laugh diffuse 99.9% of all situations
- Join the scene. Don't stand apart. Being closer is always better
- Respect your subject
- Always check your light. Always check sight lines
- Walk slow. Stop often. Sit down
- Push yourself all the time. Why am I pressing the shutter. What am I seeing
- You don't have to get every shot

And yes, sometimes I think in the third person.

bdcolen · April 23, 2010

michswiss wrote:

There's not much else to add to what's already been posted.

I currently live in Shanghai. It's accorded me an amazing training ground to learn. But I also shoot in smaller cities in China as well as comparatively empty areas in Australia and New Zealand when I'm home. Street is definitely a state of mind. I'll usually give myself one or two objectives before I head out and I'll take a couple of "warm up" shots to refresh focal lengths and exposure elements. But emotionally I'm drilling myself with a variety of thoughts. Here are some of the things that run through my head on the street.

- Be deliberate
- Be honest and genuine in what you're doing
- Smiles and a laugh diffuse 99.9% of all situations
- Join the scene. Don't stand apart. Being closer is always better
- Respect your subject
- Always check your light. Always check sight lines
- Walk slow. Stop often. Sit down
- Push yourself all the time. Why am I pressing the shutter. What am I seeing
- You don't have to get every shot

And yes, sometimes I think in the third person.

Actually, I'll add one more thing, which I have been telling my students in regard to all their work:

Stay lose.

michswiss · April 23, 2010

bdcolen wrote:

Actually, I'll add one more thing, which I have been telling my students in regard to all their work:

Stay lose.

Point taken.

sabesh · April 23, 2010

bdcolen wrote:

<snip>
Shooting with a telephoto: Don't do it. It's sniping; and, in most cases its an admission that you are uncomfortable doing street photography <snip>

I disagree. Some scenarios are just not conducive with a standard - wide lens. Candids are sometimes best captured via a Tele and is not indicative of being "uncomfortable doing street photography", IMHO. I shoot both wide and Tele and use a healthy mix of both depending on the situation. I don't see why one should pigeon-hole themselves to a wider lens when a better option is available. If Tele shooting is "sniping", then hip-shooting should be in the same category as it's just as cheeky

. Cheers.

TonyCooper · April 24, 2010

The term "telephoto" makes me think of one of those long lenses that nature photographers
use to capture an osprey's eyelashes. I'll use my 55/200 to capture a full standing figure from across
a normal city street...from the sidewalk on this side of the street to the sidewalk on the other
side of the street. That's a regular city street, not the Crosstown Expressway.

I'm still pretty visible to the subject. I don't wear cammo and stick branches in my cap or disguise myself as a fireplug.
I shoot a Nikon with only a viewfinder, so I have the camera up in front of my face.

sabesh · April 24, 2010

TonyCooper wrote:

The term "telephoto" makes me think of one of those long lenses that nature photographers
use to capture an osprey's eyelashes. I'll use my 55/200 to capture a full standing figure from across
a normal city street...from the sidewalk on this side of the street to the sidewalk on the other
side of the street. That's a regular city street, not the Crosstown Expressway.

I'm still pretty visible to the subject. I don't wear cammo and stick branches in my cap or disguise myself as a fireplug.
I shoot a Nikon with only a viewfinder, so I have the camera up in front of my face.

, I hear ya. I think "Tele" means 60mm and greater FL in Full Frame (35mm) terms. My weapon of choice for some candids is a 45mm Leica elmarit on a Olympus body, which works out to 90mm FF equivalent. I have used a 135mm lens on a full frame camera, but found it limiting for my shooting style, hence the decision to go slightly wider for candids. Everyone has their "sweet spot" when it comes to focal lengths. It's all good. Cheers.

ckaspar · April 24, 2010

I appreciate your guys dialogue going on here. It is giving me a better idea of how you guys do what you do. Very enlightening.

Richard · April 24, 2010

ckaspar wrote:

I appreciate your guys dialogue going on here. It is giving me a better idea of how you guys do what you do. Very enlightening.

One thing I have noticed is that disagreements about how to do things are more common in street than in other photographic genres. Perhaps I am just not familiar enough with them, but I haven't seen many polemics in macro, sports, landscape or other forums, whereas they appear regularly here. The perennial topics are B&W versus color, use of telephoto lenses, asking permission to shoot, suitable subject matter and the kind of post-processing permissible. All of these have been discussed here in the past, and all will be discussed again, no doubt.

If you are just getting started, I would encourage you to take all of it with a grain of salt. Ironically, almost everyone agrees that there are no rules, despite their own advocacy of the rules they believe in. I'm not suggesting that there is no value in the things people have to say on these topics. On the contrary, they are often the product of many years of experience, scar tissue and insight and are well worth thinking about. But everyone has to develop their own style and what works for one person may fail miserably for another. So try whatever occurs to you...when it works, you will know. And if it doesn't, people here will gladly tell you why.

Street and PJ Questions--No pics from me.

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