No more formals! ?

Weisel · April 19, 2010

So......almost all of us hate formals, right? OR at least, we break out in boredom hives when we shoot them. OR maybe you like them? Either way, here's my question.

Can we start getting away from formals altogether? At least cutting way back on them, and using that precious time for making photos that people actually like? Maybe replace them with informal formals. You know, the more relaxed group shots. Why do we have to do the firing squad thing? Tradition mainly. Almost all my clients hate posed photos, yet they still expect formals, just because.

Would it be a death wish for me to begin making myself into the wedding photographer who doesn't do firing squad formals? "Line up everybody, and stand in positions you normally never would" Ack!

To formal or not to formal? I guess it's essential? I'm still a bit new to this, but I'm doing well so far, and my brides are always stoked about their photos. HAs anyone ever tried getting away from formals, to a large degree?

sweet caroline · April 19, 2010

I didn't do formals the last two weddings! The results were great. But I don't do a lot of weddings, only about a dozen over 10 years (although this year will be at least 3, so maybe I'm becoming a wedding photog). I know of some award winning photographers who just don't do formals. Ever. Their shooting style is photojournalistic. That's how they advertise themselves. That's what they deliver, although with some artistic editing. To me, the formals are the most exhausting part of the wedding.

Caroline

Art Scott · April 19, 2010

Fine new innovative ways to do them......make them fresh and new....there are no rules stating that they have be done in firing squad fashion to paraphrase you..........But for me for the last 25+ yrs the formals, as much as everyone bitches and moans about doing them are the huge prints they get......no matter how cool and great others shots are everyone orders huge formals..........so make it fun for them and innovative .......

WillCAD · April 19, 2010

Even though I'm not a wedding photographer, or even a pro photographer, I know that wedding photography is one of the most difficult and demanding forms of the art, both from a technical perspective and from the client relations perspective - anyone who has ever seen a Bridezilla or Momzilla knows that. Wedding photography is not simply job, it's a calling; it's one of those things that you have to truly love to really excel at it.

And if you don't love it, you'll start phoning it in - and when that happens, in any job, it's time to get out, because you're not only doing yourself a disservice as an artist and a professional, but you're doing all of your clients a disservice, and shorting them on photos that are supposed to be some of the most important images of their entire lives.

So I guess my real response is - if you want to get away from formals, get out of wedding photography. They're the heart and soul of the traditional wedding photo package, and there will ALWAYS be clients who want them, not just because they're "expected", but because they are an integral part of the wedding day memory.

smurfy · April 19, 2010

I think they are among my favorite parts of the wedding day, and the couples' favorites after the fact are not usually the stiff ones, but the ones when I tried to get them laughing and looking like they all love each other after the "formal' in any given group. Plus helping the ladies look slender and gorgeous, and the men look dashing and manly, getting them to work the camera, etc, is a challenge that I feel we should meet if we are truly worthy of being paid well to photograph weddings. These family pictures in particular are incredibly important, and if done well, may become treasured heirlooms. We don't often think of funerals at weddings, but realistically, our pictures are often the last good photos ever taken of someone before they die. One of my friends lost his 22 year old little brother, who had been the best man, in an auto accident three weeks after his wedding. Sadly, he had a photographer who's work looked like he was high the day he shot. There were no decent shots of him with his little brother, or of their family. It mattered.

But even if it's years, and hopefully, it will be, before they must suffer such a loss of a family member, they will be glad that you did your job well. Having pictures that reflected my mom's real personality meant a lot. I don't know who took her childhood pictures, or the beautiful portraits of her in college. But their work was important, and lives on.

After losing my mother last year, and realizing that my own wedding photographer is the only one of all the five kids in our family who got decent pics of my parents with us at the wedding, it changed my view of these pictures. I shot a wedding two weeks ago, and one of my 2009 brides was there with her husband and mom. All three of them came up and hugged me. Mom was especially grateful for the beautiful pictures of she and her daughter. It was tough to work her into relaxing and laughing with her daughter, especially since she was bitterly divorced...Have you noticed divorced moms hardly ever look happy at their daughters weddings? Because my own mom's death was so recent, I would not just settle for cruddy pictures. It took an extra minute or two, but it meant a lot to them, and (God forbid) it will likely mean even more to them in the years to come.

Just MHO, I certainly don't begrudge anyone who wants to opt out of them, if their clients are on the same page. But formals shouldn't take more than half and hour tops, and they are certainly precious treasures to give to our clients down the roads of their lives.

Weisel · April 19, 2010

WillCAD wrote:

So I guess my real response is - if you want to get away from formals, get out of wedding photography. They're the heart and soul of the traditional wedding photo package, and there will ALWAYS be clients who want them, not just because they're "expected", but because they are an integral part of the wedding day memory.

No, getting out is not an option. I am extremely passionate about this career, this art. I love it. I don't care for formals, and I'm trying to see if there are others who just don't do them, or maybe limit it to like 4 groupings. And again, like I Said, maybe just making them less.....formal.

Trust me, telling me to get out of it is way off base, in my case. Formals are just a bump in the road for me.

pwp · April 20, 2010

Honestly, only maybe 25% of my couples request them at all, and that is because mom and dad have requested them. Sure, we all hate em, but it's not that much in the grand scheme of things. I can spare 20 minutes if the B&G can.

sweet caroline · April 20, 2010

Getting casual group shots is different than planning stiff, traditional formals. What worked at these last two weddings I shot, was to let everyone get comfortable, and then say "Let's grab a few pictures over here". I spent 5 minute taking photos with parents. I had already gotten photos with siblings, aunts, grandparents, etc. by capturing moments. A photographer who is on the ball will know to get siblings, grandparents, etc. without having to line them all up at a designated time for formals.

Honestly, If I am the client, I don't want a large group photo. I would rather have more small group and individual shots. I personally don't even want to be directed to take "fun" shots. I want the photographer to let me be natural, with maybe some gentle hints about how to look my best.

It just goes to show that you've got to match the client's style and personality to the photographer.

Caroline

zoomer · April 20, 2010

I can shoot the formals in 15 minutes no big deal.
Usually takes longer to round them up.

I look at the formals as a great opportunity to get candid shots while everybody is standing around, my assistant is getting them all set up and I am shooting candids. When she says I go shoot three shots, next group.
Shooting the candids is usually a lot of fun.

I wouldn't not shoot them unless they tell you they don't want them.

LeeHowell · April 20, 2010

I'm with ya on this...I know one of these days I'll get a bride who says "Nah, we don't want no stinking group shots"

In part though, I almost encourage it...I have a survey I give my clients a few weeks before the wedding to finalize some details I feel I should know about in advance to do my job effectively, and one of those questions is...You guessed it...Which posed group shots do you want?

I also ask them how long they want to spend...I hate being a guest at a wedding and waiting 2 hours for the bridal party at the reception, then look at the photos a few weeks later and see nothing spectacular that deserved 2 hours of torture...But they always respond - QUICK - 30-45 minutes tops. And that's exactly what I give them. Start with the whole family, then let them filter it down from there.

For now, it's just another challenge we face - What can we do to make this more interesting?

I think if you blatantly say "Nope...Not gonna do them" then you're gonna turn some people off...BUT...It may open a few doors as well. All it takes is a portfolio to compensate for the difference.

We'll start picketing and see who joins in :-P

Blurmore · April 20, 2010

I came up assisting photographers whose bread and butter was awesome formals, true contemporary photographers in the vein of Monte Zucker (one who actually worked for him back in the day). There is a skill and art to putting together formals just like everything else, it doesn't have to be a "firing squad" and the best stuff really isn't. I'm not about to say I'm as good at it, or as precise about it as the men I learned from, but I try to incorporate elements of their style in a less rigid, gentler way. Formals are the photographer's opportunity to make people look their best. I know a lot of new wave PJ photographers do not look at it this way, and feel it is not their job or responsibility to affect how people look, but purely be documentary. I'm not saying what is right or wrong, what is right is making money, and making your client happy. It is unfair however to disparage posed portraits, and group portraits as trite or static until you've spent time with a master of the genre and see how deftly they maneuver people into doing things that are not natural while all the time keeping it fun and light. Even Dennis Reggie shoots formals (I've heard he puts a 15 minute max on them), unless your client ABSOLUTELY doesn't want them, it is something you might as well take the time to learn well because many of those brides who "absolutely" didn't want them end up regretting their choice after the fact. Many may have been pushed to that decision by a bad experience with a photographer who had no real skill at shooting formals, and let the clients in on his/her dislike either through the quality of the finished product or by bitching about having to do them in the first place.

Agnieszka · April 20, 2010

I hate them, I would prefer to get them out of my life, but you know what ... as much as they suck & the couple wants to get them done as soon as possible, I KNOW down the road they will love them, and they will end up framed & cherished ... somewhere ... I've heard many stories where people died shortly after a wedding, and those were their last "nice" photos ... so ... time to put a nice smile on our faces and just suck it up / ..... unlesssssssssss the couple really doesn't care

l.k.madison · April 20, 2010

I'm speaking from a bride's POV here, I'm not a fan. Honestly, who buys them anymore other than parents and grandparents? I agree with the sentiment that nearly every guest has their own digital camera.

Personally, I have a HUGE family (my parents got married, had me, divorced and each one got remarried) so mine's double the size it normally is. My "grandparent" formal had Me, Husband, father's mom/dad, mother's mom (her dad is deceased), stepfather's mom/dad, stepmother's mom/dad. We got lost in the shuffle in the picture. While it's not BAD, there's just too many people in the shot for my liking. Our formals seemed to take FOREVER, we had wedding/reception in the same hall so it's not like we "abandoned" our guests but still.

Our wedding photography was a gift from the photographer, she gave us an album of 4x6s and the negatives, but if we had to order, I'm can't say I would have gotten any formals, they're boring to me.

Maybe you could just say that you'd only do them per request, that way, you'd still get the brides that want them, but you wouldn't waste your time on the ones that don't.

Unless you find a way to do them that's not everybody standing in a line looking at the camera.. soooo over-used, I think.

zoomer · April 20, 2010

We always add one in where the bride and groom are out front and he dip kisses her while the entire both family groups does a fist pump and cheers.
If you make it fun it can be fun, toss in a couple on three kiss the person next to you on the cheek or pinch their bottom or give them rabbit ears show your best dance move point at the sexiest (fill in your own flavor) family member point at your best feature etc etc etc.
Doesn't add any time and everybody is having fun.
Yeah if you line them up and say smile that is torture for everyone........and is shows in the pictures.

Qarik · April 20, 2010

also let's not forget that we as photographers maybe jaded to the idea because it is not the most exciting thing. But remember the client often knows/cares about the images from their own wedding and not the dozen other weddings that the photographer has to shoot with an interest level in mind.

sherijohnson · April 26, 2010

So even though a lot of photographers aren't all that into the formals, you have to remember that out of all the images you take that day, pictures with family members rank right up there as very important to the family. You have to remember that some will have traveled from far away, they don't always get to see each other every day and even if they did, it's not every day that they are all dressed up and together in one place. It would seem wise to take advantage of this even if it is just an informal group shot. In time even the newlyweds will cherish some family images.

I know I have one coming up that will be at least 27 people in the big group. I don't expect to attempt anything fancy, but to try to get them all in one photo will be the most important.

cab.in.boston · April 26, 2010

I'm not a wedding photog (or a pro of any kind) and never plan to be, although I could imagine being a 2nd might be fun. But I am married, and the formal shots are among my favorites. I can imagine that this is tedious for the photogs, because they do this all the time, and it must not be nearly as fun doing formals as capturing details and the more unscripted moments. But speaking from the "other side," we don't do this much, and the photos tend to be the ones that hang in treasured spots in our homes.

I would certainly think that if your style tends away from formals, then your clients would know this by viewing your portfolio, and if that's what they want then it's all golden. But I'd hate to see photographers pushing the ideas of formals out entirely, because to many of us normal folk, these photos really are very important.

sweet caroline · April 27, 2010

So maybe I'm not "normal". Even looking back at old family photos, as long as I can remember, the large group shots weren't what did it for me. I spent time every visit to relatives' houses looking at photos. I adore and cherish all the family photos. I believe strongly in capturing all the family members, I just don't get the appeal of having the whole group together in one shot. I do them for people who want them, including the moms and grandmas, but they aren't my cup of of tea.

I don't like school class pictures either! Or my formal prom pictures.

PhotoLasVegas · April 27, 2010

We look at formals as a "necessary evil", but neither like nor dislike doing them. We know that 90% of our clients NEED to have them (usually for their parents and just to have them for the future). What we hear is "we really dont want to do them, but we dont' want to regret not doing them later on".

What we do when we do a 2-photog shoot is (especially for the guys), we do a "normal" shot, and a fun shot for each pose.

For wedding party formals, we almost always do non-traditional poses (random placement, back-to-back, on rocks, etc.) unless it's a church wedding, then we do the boring/stiff ones but also try to do fun ones later on.

This is a still-relatively-typical "formal" taken OUTSIDE the church AFTER the boring formals were done...

cab.in.boston · April 27, 2010

sweet caroline wrote:

So maybe I'm not "normal"....

I was being a tad tongue-in-cheek when I said "normal." My point was that I can totally understand how it is tedious for wedding 'togs to do these shots because typically they are not the artistic photos that define one's style and in fact the shooting does take away some from the enjoyment of the day. But for the participants (in my case, anyway), it really isn't a big deal, and often the pictures are treasured. I was talking with my wife about this, and she agreed with many of you in that the formals are not her favorites; she prefers the detail shots. However, she also agreed that it's likely that never again will a couple have all or most of both sides of the family together at the same time and "all gussied up." It's nice, at least IMO, to have a couple of shots of everyone together. I just think that as a rule, it would be a shame for many people if these photos just disappeared entirely. Unless of course that is what a client wants.

sweet caroline wrote:

I don't like school class pictures either! Or my formal prom pictures.

I completely agree. I don't think I ever was in a school picture that I liked, either with my class or just myself. And I never had formal prom shots taken. I much prefer the senior and prom shots that I see here on the People forum to anything I was ever in.

But there's a difference between having 30 kids in 3rd grade together that as an adult you won't even remember vs. having both sides of the family all assembled at the same time for a wedding. It's not the "formality" of the pictures that I'm saying I like, just the fact that you can get everyone on both sides of the family all together.

Blurmore · April 27, 2010

I like all of MY formal prom pictures...because my wife is in them, and she is smokin hot. oh...was this off topic? sorry.

heatherfeather · April 27, 2010

Blurmore wrote:

I like all of MY formal prom pictures...because my wife is in them, and she is smokin hot. oh...was this off topic? sorry.

ha ha! Right answer. Make sure she inadvertantly reads that over your shoulder, okay? Bonus points!

I have to agree with cab in boston... while formals are sooo boring to shoot and process, they are really important for family history and rememberances, and should never be skipped. Though it would sure be nice to not have to. I sure get sick of doing them..... but then again.... I don't like to do dishes or laundry. But they have to be done to keep my family running smoothly, and formals are like milestones for an entire family.

Funny thing about my wedding formals... we always use them to figure out how old someone was when I got married... and compare that info to how old my kids are. For instance... Uncle so and so was your age when I married your dad...

No more formals! ?

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