Off camera flash e-ttl or manual?

r9jackson · June 3, 2010

As a followup to my question on Radiopoppers vs. Pocket Wizards (and thanks to everyone for the wide variety of opinions), now I need to get some opinions of whether I need e-ttl or not.

If I need e-ttl I am limited to RP or PW with the newer more expensive models. If I should go manual I have a lot of other options from the Cybersynch's to the Cactus V4's.

My gut tells me I should go for the e-ttl and my wallet says "get out of that chair and learn to flash manual".

Art Scott · June 3, 2010

if not using E-ttl or then you should have an incident flash meter at the very least. to help speed your work along.
You can chimp and shootr and chimp and shoot and chimp......but a flash meter gets things won to one flash and then you set your
settings and now your ready to shoot.
If going the manual route then you can get much less expensive RF flash triggers. I shoot manual a lot even with my Nikon SB900's,
I just like the control I have in manual and also for the money saved on flash triggers I got a 2nd SB900..........

Dan7312 · June 3, 2010

Well, you can try using manual flash right now with some test shots with the flash on camera, and see if you feel comfortable doing flash, chimp, flash, chimp... my guess is it won't take long to convience yourself that you want a either a incident flash meter as Art recommended or PW/RP's because it will just take a lot less time to set up a shot.

One thing with the flash meter to consider, if you are doing a fill flash outside. If the meter is being triggered by the light from flash going off sometimes it won't work because sometimes the meter can't sense the flash going off in bright sunlight. But flash meters, like Sekonic's, can usually also can be triggered by a cable too, if your camera supports it.

Both PW and RP have pretty liberal 30 day no questions asked return http://www.pocketwizard.com/news_events/news/30_day_guarantee_extended/
http://shop.radiopopper.com/return-policy.aspx
going on right now if you just want to do a try them out.

Qarik · June 3, 2010

If you are in a situation where you have complete control over your lighting (ambient and distances) then a lot of people will go manual. Think studio. If you are in dynamic situations then ttl is probably the better route. think wedding or other events.

GadgetRick · June 3, 2010

For off camera flash I've never been able to get consistent results with ettl. I use the Alien Bee transmitter/receiver combo which is supposed to support ettl. Not sure if I'm doing something incorrectly or not but I can't seem to get good results. So I shoot manual. Doesn't take long to get the exposure I want via chimp and shoot but I do want to get a meter. Just don't have the funds right now.

jeffreaux2 · June 4, 2010

There was a discussion in "people" on fill flash recently. Have you searched the forum here? Its been discussed over and over.

I use ETTL for outdoor on location portraits and events. I trigger the flash(s) with an STE2 transmitter. Its stupid simple, but there are a few catches.

-You may need to enable high speed synch(HSS) to use flash with wide apertures. No biggie there except that you will not recieve a full power discharge from the speedlight in HSS mode. In this case, I recommend trying to stay at or below your cameras native synch speed. This will buy you full flash power when needed.

-FEC (flash exposure compensation) is your best friend. This is seperate from normal exposure compensation in that it only affects the amount of light that the flash is contributing to the overall exposure. For fill, dont be surprised if you find yourself using FEC at -3 stops.

-Too little flash will always look better that too much. Try not to introduce new shadows created by the flash. Skip out on modifyers that dont increase the size of the light source. Lightsphere....no.....Umbrella...yes.

-If you are using any mode other than manual you will introduce more variables to have to deal with. In AV or Shutter speed priority you will have to ride the exposure compensation AND FEC wheels to get things looking nicely. Best bet- Shoot in manual. Set exposures so that highlights are safe. I expose to the right, but keep highlights on the histogram. A simple bump up or down in shutter speed can then control how the background is exposed....letting the flash...and ettl... handle the foreground.

-In a studio...why not manual flash......anywhere else...I recommend ETTL.

Art Scott · June 4, 2010

GadgetRick wrote: »

For off camera flash I've never been able to get consistent results with ettl. I use the Alien Bee transmitter/receiver combo which is supposed to support ettl. Not sure if I'm doing something incorrectly or not but I can't seem to get good results. So I shoot manual. Doesn't take long to get the exposure I want via chimp and shoot but I do want to get a meter. Just don't have the funds right now.

Send the Paul Buff group an email detailing what you do and how along with a sample of a couple of photos and see what they say??? They are the greatest customer oriented company I know of for over 30 yrs.............

GadgetRick · June 5, 2010

Art Scott wrote: »

Send the Paul Buff group an email detailing what you do and how along with a sample of a couple of photos and see what they say??? They are the greatest customer oriented company I know of for over 30 yrs.............

Good idea. I have nothing but good things to say about them. I just kinda thought manual was the only way to shoot off camera.

pathfinder · June 5, 2010

jeffreaux2 wrote: »

There was a discussion in "people" on fill flash recently. Have you searched the forum here? Its been discussed over and over.

I use ETTL for outdoor on location portraits and events. I trigger the flash(s) with an STE2 transmitter. Its stupid simple, but there are a few catches.

-You may need to enable high speed synch(HSS) to use flash with wide apertures. No biggie there except that you will not recieve a full power discharge from the speedlight in HSS mode. In this case, I recommend trying to stay at or below your cameras native synch speed. This will buy you full flash power when needed.

-FEC (flash exposure compensation) is your best friend. This is seperate from normal exposure compensation in that it only affects the amount of light that the flash is contributing to the overall exposure. For fill, dont be surprised if you find yourself using FEC at -3 stops.

-Too little flash will always look better that too much. Try not to introduce new shadows created by the flash. Skip out on modifyers that dont increase the size of the light source. Lightsphere....no.....Umbrella...yes.

-If you are using any mode other than manual you will introduce more variables to have to deal with. In AV or Shutter speed priority you will have to ride the exposure compensation AND FEC wheels to get things looking nicely. Best bet- Shoot in manual. Set exposures so that highlights are safe. I expose to the right, but keep highlights on the histogram. A simple bump up or down in shutter speed can then control how the background is exposed....letting the flash...and ettl... handle the foreground.

-In a studio...why not manual flash......anywhere else...I recommend ETTL.

Jeff is giving really good advice here - look at the images he posts of people and you wil see why I say this.

Like Jeff and Quarik both suggest and I have said many times as well.

If you can tell your subject where to sit and stand, and they will hold still and not move from there, so that you can set up your lights at a given distance from them and the light to subject distance does not change, SHOOT Manual mode in your camera with a manual mode studio flash or speedlite like the LumiPro 160, Vivitar 285HV, etc.

BUT --- if you shoot children who move about and will not remain in the same spot, if your flash to subject distance is continuously changing ( think candids of family at home where every one is milling about ) ETTL will be much more satisfactory. Put your camera in Manual Mode, your flash in ETTL and go to work just like Jeffreau said.

The real answer, unfortunately from a financial aspect, is a real pro will probably want both modes from time to time. In a controlled studio situation, set up your lights, dial in the exposure once, and fire away with the exposure consistent from frame to frame. But at a wedding reception, where everyone is wandering about without paying any attention to what you are trying to capture, ETTL will make your life a lot easier.

Manfr3d · June 5, 2010

+1 to what pathfinder said

I also use a wireless but manual flash setup with up to 4 flashguns and it works very well if you have time to set the lights up.

jeffreaux2 · June 6, 2010

ETTL and a single off camera 580EX speedlight through a 45 inch umbrella on the beach using the STE2 transmitter....

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ziggy53 · June 6, 2010

Awesome examples Jeff.

clap

The 48th Ronin · June 8, 2010

eTTl might be great in a pinch, but imo manual is where you learn and can be more creative. All that being said I needed eTTl and high speed sync to get this shot. Amazing flash at 1/6000 second!

http://www.briancareyphotography.com/People/Portraits/12182276_gDBka#879012530_9VWUz

Brian Carey
http://briancareyphotography.com/

Off camera flash e-ttl or manual?

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