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any advice for a beauty pageant?
GerryDavid
Registered Users Posts: 439 Major grins
I just scheduled a beauty pageant for this weekend. Yes, its short notice, but I was available. 
Its this persons first time organizing a pageant so it should be interesting.
My main focus will be the posed pictures. I will be using a portable background stand, with white sheets and four flashes, two for the background and two for the subject. And this will be setup in the hallway by the gym. Ive done pictures like this before with ballet pictures so I know it works.
The only real problem is I will be photographing the kids before they go on stage, so I cant be in the gym photographing them on the stage at the same time. Im probably going to send my wife in there with the good camera and a fast prime to get what she can, its better to have that than nothing at all. Then at the very end after the posed shots are done, Ill be in the gym taking pics of the awards.
As for sales, I cant show pictures during the pageant because I wont have all of them yet, the candids. Im very tempted to upgrade my smugmug and just sell them from there, but im concerned by how weak the watermark is. I may just put heavily watermarked images online and do the order processing myself. And schedule a picture viewing day some Saturday in January. I would prfer to schedule that earlier, but the next Saturday is Christmas, then the next saturday is new years eve and were in Canada, so the next Saturday will work for us.
the fun part will be doing all the baby pictures in the time allotted.
As for options for them to buy, I think Ill do the magazine cover again. This will be harder to sell online though.
Should I give the person organizing this event a model release to get the parents to sign? That way it wont be a problem putting the pictures in public galleries.
This is my first beauty pageant. I havent even watched them on tv.
Its this persons first time organizing a pageant so it should be interesting.My main focus will be the posed pictures. I will be using a portable background stand, with white sheets and four flashes, two for the background and two for the subject. And this will be setup in the hallway by the gym. Ive done pictures like this before with ballet pictures so I know it works.
The only real problem is I will be photographing the kids before they go on stage, so I cant be in the gym photographing them on the stage at the same time. Im probably going to send my wife in there with the good camera and a fast prime to get what she can, its better to have that than nothing at all. Then at the very end after the posed shots are done, Ill be in the gym taking pics of the awards.
As for sales, I cant show pictures during the pageant because I wont have all of them yet, the candids. Im very tempted to upgrade my smugmug and just sell them from there, but im concerned by how weak the watermark is. I may just put heavily watermarked images online and do the order processing myself. And schedule a picture viewing day some Saturday in January. I would prfer to schedule that earlier, but the next Saturday is Christmas, then the next saturday is new years eve and were in Canada, so the next Saturday will work for us.
the fun part will be doing all the baby pictures in the time allotted.
As for options for them to buy, I think Ill do the magazine cover again. This will be harder to sell online though.
Should I give the person organizing this event a model release to get the parents to sign? That way it wont be a problem putting the pictures in public galleries.
This is my first beauty pageant.
I havent even watched them on tv. 0
Comments
You can approach it one of 2 ways:
As an amateur that's content to take the easy woay out and settle for Chump change,
OR,
As a pro who will dig in, handle it in a professional manner that impresses the clients and organisers and makes a professional level financial return on their time.
Don't worry what the last guy did or what the people that aren't photographers think should be done, go in and do it the best it can be done so you impress the people, get yourself invited to that one next time, get referals from all the parents that are there that do the circuits of these things and make your self some real money like a true professional in the process.
Forget about incidental rubbish like model releases. Put up a sign that the candids will be available on the web and then by having their kids pic taken they are agreeing to it. Also forget about trying to satisfy every neurotic forum worry wart preoccupation. No one can sue you for putting a pic up for sale online so forget that ond concerntrate on whats really important.
I think your going the right wiay with the candids Vs the posed shots, The posed ones will sell heaps better so put the emphasis on them.
As for sales, I think your not going the most effective way with that. Forget not having the candids, they are the minor issue, put them online and go with what you have of the posed shots on the day and get someone to help you sell them there and then. Maybe give them a lowball flat rate plus commission on what they sell. You might be better off getting someone to snap the camera inside and getting the mrs on the sales..... with a friend depending on how many people are going to be at this thing. Don't kill sales by being tight and not putting on enough sales staff. They should pay for themselves and only need to do one decent sale to pay for themselves for and hour.
Selling online or on a Photo day 3 weeks after the event, that's a couple of weeks AFTER christmas, is going to kill your sales stone dead. If you could do them to have ready before hand however, you'd clean up.
Even if you can't do onsite Printing ( and it takes nothing to set that up) I'd be posting the pics out in time for Chrissy. Put a sign up that they will be available then and you'll do very well. Shouldn't be hard to find a lab to do 24 Hr turn around so you have them in the post by tues morning and they should ( depending on your postal system) sneak in by chrissy. As long as you have them mailed not your concern anyway.
Afterwards, I'd not be surprised if your potential sales were 75% lower.
the urgency has gone, the reasons to buy have gone and most of all, the money has gone.
Yeah it might me a rush but thats half the fun, Pulling something together against time and the odds. Seems thats always the way I have to do it and it always works out. You just need to dig deep for a bit and find a way to make it happen not come up with excuses to convince yourself why it can't happen.
As for onsite printing, that dosen't take as much time as people think. I did a golf day a couple of weeks ago where the Course manager wouldn't let me into the clubhouse till just over an hour before the players were finished but everyone still had a framed A4 print plus awards plus a DVD slide show in a custom printed case with a pic from the day on the slick ready to take home after they had eaten at the awards presentation.
Do the mag covers on the day as well. Template them up in a PS action. I have mine set up so I open the pic I want to use and hit a button and it does the image sizeing, levels etc and puts the writing on the image then stops. I can put in the name of the person if need be, centre the image if its a tad off, hit another button and the thing spits out the printer. With printer pooling I can knock one of these out every 30 sec.
If you make up some picture package sheets ( which PS has Built in although I prefer to make my own) that saves a lot of time as well. I have done onsite T&I printing and if you do packages and each level is 1 sheet higher than the next, you just assign a custom function button for each package. IE, package one is F1, package 2 which is package 1 with an extra sheet is F2, package 3 is package 1 and 2 which you just include the actions you already made plus another, is F3 etc with a mag cover being F5, Bordered print F6.... you can knock heaps of pics out in no time.
Even if you don't print, you can still assign the layouts to a folder so all you have to do at the end is burn the image files to a DVD and send it to the lab and your there.
Soundls like a great opportunity here, make the most of it and go in hard and do something different to really blow everyone away and make the most you can from it rather than just being satisfied and making whatever by taking the easy but ordinary sales raod.
Good Luck.
Ill probably focus on the sales the day of. I do have a printer I can use on location, but Im never 100% satisfied with how the pictures look from it, compared to what they look like from WHCC. I think part of the problem is my notebooks monitor.
So you solved the problem yourself.
Shoot a predefined series of pics which go together to encourage them buying them all and then have a package tailored to that exact number of of photos.
Better still, have the package inclusions one less pic than you shot and tell them to make the decision easier, you'll just thow them all in if they would like the top coverage.
I do that all the time and it works great for customer flow and even better for client satisfaction and establishing a positive attitude towards your business.
As for making decisions, The sales persons job is to help them make choices and kee things moning along efficently. When I have done this we always space or sales table so teh lingerers can be politely moved aside while people with better decision making skills are bing served. This encourages the slow pokes to get going but I have only had one or two of these on average in any group anyway.
So get a local High school kid to shoot it. Must be a heap that would love to play photographer. Either that or just don't bother with those pics at all.
Ummm, basically, Who cares what you think of the prints?
The important thing is what do the CLIENTS think?
If they are happy, and the prints are not blatently substandard, why sweat it?
I do all my printing on inkjets which a lot of shooters, mainly those that have outlayed 20 times more on a dye sub printer, Rubbish.
The clients, they ohh and ahh and tell me every event how " Clear and sharp " the prints are and how the Colours look great... even when they are too warm from the late afternoon sun or a bit blue from the overcast weather. That's all subjective stuff and as long as the clients are happy.... Who cares about the nitpicking details?
Photographers crap on too much about having the perfect image and every shot has to be retouched and edited or it will ruin their reputation for ever. This is a load of rubbish perpetuated by people who spend time on forums but not out in the real world doing what they formulate their flawed mantra's on.
You need to have a marketable standard of work but that is entirely different to a perfect standard. Clients have a much wider tolerance of Quality than shooters and put a lot more importance on what's in the image and the significance of it to them which most photographers pay little regard to.
For this event, I'd seriously look at buying another printer, a bunch of ink and paper and preprinting everything.
Yeah, I know, the first thought that rushes into your head is what about The ones I don't sell? Look at the big prize not the cost of the ticket.
The reality is if your shots are remotely good to start with, you'll sell so many shots that the overall sales will be what you walk away with kicking your heels in the air rather than worrying about a few unsold prints.... Which if you can get the clients details you can always offer as a special later for a second bite of the cherry.
Printers and supplies are relatively cheap and if your work is priced where it should be, You'll make back costs in a few sales. I just bought a bunch of new printers for $112 ea and they are great. I regularly do $100 sales so it dosen't take any time to recoup the investment on them.
Yes, it's a leap of faith to do preprinted but one that will pay off and you'll be keen to do again once you have done it the first time.
And I like having a standard, not the all to common "thats good enough" mentality. I think thats one thing that sets me apart from some of the local competition, and one of the things I promote about myself. Theres one studio in town that is considered the best in the area, he has his pictures in the mall, the best of his work, but Ive seen a few series hes done for other people and its just sad. You can tell hes just going through the motions to get through the appointments.
Its true that the majority of the public cant tell if a print is bad, color wise but some can. I dont want to be known for giving a subpar product.
Does anyone have any recommendations for poses to do? Im going to research this now, but I thought maybe someone her has some good tips.
In my experience and that of several other photographers I know, many of them will if you set the poses up right.
Perhaps your market is different to ours?
I wasn't advocating a slip shop attitude, rather that it is pointless to fuss about the difference between what the clients are perfect happy with at your price point and what you think is perfection.
Just as a ford or a Chevy Dosen't have the time spent on fit and finish that a rolls royce does, is not to say there is something wrong with them or they are sub standard.
If Chevy started putting the time into Fit and finish that Rolls does, I expect they would soon go broke and become unviable.
And that is my point.
If your in Market of selling Chevy's, don't try and put the effort into building them you would a Rolls Royce because that is a highly counter productive business practice.
All that getting too wrapped up in product rather than sales does is get in the way of profit although if that isn't a persons goal, then they can fuss to their hearts content. Once the bucket of Customer satisfaction is filled, no use trying to keep putting more in because it just flows over the sides and is wasted effort.
So who considers him the best in the area?
The paying clients ? If I were him, I'd be pretty satisfied with that. You may not think much of his work but do you pay him, or anyone else in prefrance to him to take your Photos?
If not, then logically your opinion would be of little consequence to him and his business.
" Going through the motions to get through the appointments" Would indicate to me that he's busy and has plenty of work coming in the door.
To me, what you are saying is that you think your work or print quality is better than this guys. That's great and so is the fact you are setting yourself apart from the competition.
How is that going for you?
Are you experiencing rapid and strong growth through Word of mouth from satisfied clients or are you having to find most of your own business?
Are you considered the best photographer in your town?
Are you as busy and making as much money as your competitor?
I'm not trying to put the proverbial on you but I am trying to point out the differences between putting your emphasis on being the greatest photographer out there and the difference between putting the emphasis on a successful Business.
It would seem to me by your own statements that the guy you think does "sad" work is considered the best in town and has a good steady business.
By this I would deduct that the clients don't think his work is sad or they would neither consider him the best or be going to him.
From past posts it seems you are rather price concious and from this I deduct that you are not in a town that has sufficent population or clients that would allow you to charge prices that would justify you getting too fussy with your output -IF- your goal is to make a successful profitable business.
I would never suggest you give poor quality products out but becomeing overly concerned about the quality of your work beyond the price point you are selling it as is just as detrimental to a successful business.
Anyway, good luck with it and let us know how this gig works out for you.
I think that one guy is considered the best in the area because he has been established in town the longest, has the prime mall advertising spots where he does post his best work, and he charges about $1000 for a portrait, and people just assume hes worth it. I dont know how busy he is though. Ive had a couple people come to me that went to him before and they have expressed how much they prefer my style of doing things and the end results. So I consider that good, hehe. I haven't seen any of his prints, but from what I've seen on people's facebook accounts from his sessions, I believe I deliver better results. I just have to get more awareness in town which I'm slowly getting.
And ive added to my lineup of offers. At first it was just prints, canvas, digital prints that seem to be priced at a point that no one wants them, even still, and random things you can put pictures on. Ive been offering photo books that have become pretty popular and have really increased my sales average, and ive thought of a new plan to encourage people to spend $250 or more on prints, we'll see how it goes next week with my next picture viewing.
I am trying to keep the expenses down, and doing as much work myself as I can, partly a penny saved is a penny earned, and partly I cant think of anyone that I has the time to help and that I can trust. Im a bit hesitant to hire a random high school kid that has a photography interest and give him my $800 camera and $350 lens to take pictures in the gym. I could hire one that alraedy has a camera, but it would be harder to find one that has one of the newest models so I can get the lowest noise level possible.
The fact its so close to Christmas may have hurt the sales to, people either have spent all their money or already had to many pics taken, I've heard people say both of these.
So now to process 1000 candids. Im not going to bother adjusting the white balance and exposure, I'm just going to crop them and watermark them and upload them.
Now to see how much I actually make from this.
How many kids did you end up shooting?
What was the problem with them being photographed.
Were you in a bad location, Did the school promote you being there?
In my experience these gigs are a winner, especially with the little kids.
One of the difficulties of this type of work is you never know how many clients your going to have to deal with. You either estimate getting slammed and have to take and set up all manner of gear and sometimes get an underwhealming response or not expect much and lose sales cause you can't handle it. Very frustrating either way.
Yeah, I have heard tales of the tooth fairy and easter bunny as well but I don't believe them anymore than I believe that.
If you reconcile yourself to being content with crap excuses like that, just give your work away for free and save yourself the frustration of trying to make a quid from it now.
There is no time people are more free with their money than right before Xmas nor do they have more reason to buy ( Gifts for friends , relatives etc). What you are hearing is excuses for not buying your pics but not REASONS. I suspect there is some other underlying factor than what your being told. It would seem to me they are making excuses to cover the truth for not buying.
You need to get to the bottom of that whatever it is.
If you start believeing ecxuses like that though and believeing it yourself, you'll never make any worthwhile money. People DO have Money, they WILL spend it, You just have to give them something they want to buy and the excuses to justify it.
That's where sales skills come into it.....
"That's a great picture that you could frame for a special gift for grandma"
"Don't they grow up fast, next year he'll look nothing like that"
" Yeah, they are all great shots, I can't make you try to decide between them. If you take the Mega coverage I'll throw them in for you. Will that be cash or card?"
If you believe their excuses though and tell yourself, " they have spent their money " Or " they have enough pics already" then you have screwd yourself.
Do you think your wife has enough shoes and handbags? Think that's going to stop her buying the next pair she wants?
Does she have too much money or is she budgeting everything? Will that stop her buying the next handbag she neither needs or really has the money for ? You bet your backside it won't!
People buy what they want. They make excuses to own it.
When they make excuses NOT to buy something, it's because they don't want it.
I don't work on any pic I haven't sold. If they aren't good enough to show straight out of the camera then they are deleted. If you have the time then making the online images look better -may- help your sales but I very much doubt it if they are shot decent in the first place. More likley it will make them more appealing to download so make that watermark nice and prominent.
If you didn't do much with the " Formal" shots, I doubt your going to do much with the candids though.
I would suggest image prep the time would be better spent on reading a sales and marketing book or sitting down and having a good hard think about what you could improve with the gig you just did and what to do for the next one you get.
That's what I try and do, especially with the gigs im not happy with when it's clear in my mind. If you just keep tweaking the dials you get things tuned in pretty quick usually and it's important to at least learn something from the less than outstanding jobs when that's the most profitable thing you can take from them.
the location was neither great nor bad. I wasn't in the main room, but off to the side, outside of the band room where they all met up before going on stage.
It wasnt through a school, but through a local business owner, to raise money to give 8 families with kids a special Christmas that wouldnt otherwise, including a meal, $100 worth of toys and some stuff from their store. It was their first time doing a pageant and it went pretty well considering. But one problem was they didn't have a ton of time between their first appearance on stage and their 2nd appearance in their Christmas gear. So that cut into my photography time for those that did want pictures.
Im not creating excuses, I know for a fact that this close to Christmas a lot of people just dont have the money to buy things, their cards are maxed out. And why would I give my work away? I go in there with the intent to do a great job, and sell a worth while package. If they dont have the money Im not going to twist their arms and pick thier pocket. The one person that told me they cant afford it said that when I offered to do pictures for them, not after the fact.
And for the record, my wife doesnt own a single purse and has 3 pairs of shoes. So ya, she can walk by them in the store and resist buying them.
There is another pageant in the spring and i've mentioned to the pageant organizer about raising the application price a bit, a % of that will go to charity and the rest will go to me. Then each contestant will get a free 5x7 or something by choosing it off of the website. This way I am guaranteed $$$ to be there, and then will hopefully get more from the posed shots.
And again, I dont believe in delivering a subpar image. Sure you can get a great image out of the camera, but not an excellent image every single time. Because of the low light situation, we used a prime lens to photograph this, so sometimes they were further in teh back, sometimes they were closer to the front. So I had to crop the image so the subject filled the frame. I didnt bother tweaking the color because I simply didnt have time. It would have taken a number of hours to convert 1300 18mp raw images. So I believe it was worth my time to crop those images to get them ready to go online, so when they view the websized image *800px on the line side* they can get a better look at the face.
You should marry that woman. 0
Again.
Just to make sure you never lose her!
She's 1 in about 10 Million I'd say!
You understand very well what it takes to be successful in business and you will do well from it.
It goes without saying that you need a good standard of work but if you go overboard with that at the cost of your marketing and building client relationships, your business will suffer.
I always shake my head at shooters that spend hours upon hour working images after the shoot. The problem is it's not scaleable. If they get the amount of work they will tell you they would ultimately like, very quickly there just aren't enough hours in the day to do the fussing and fiddling they insist on when they have only minimal work. The alternative is to either go back to what they would whinge is an inferiour product by not spending 10 min on every image they shoot or that they can never achieve the success they want for themselves.
Like I said, Chevy dosen't have the built quality of a Rolls Royce but no one would suggest because of that the chevy is a substandard car.
Honestly, I just don't get all the stuffing around people do with images. Maybe it's because I'm old school and worked for years with film. For mainstream work, you just couldn't afford to retouch ever image. Sure, the ones you used as a a large wall print or whatever may get sustome printing with a bit of dodge and burn but it was nothing like the mentality some people have of " I won't let an image out the door without Photo F@#*ing it for half an hour so it looks good and won't hurt my reputation."
If you are making change off of the shoot, then it makes sense not to spend to much time on the pictures. The client gets what they pay for.
They will be having a pageant again in the spring, and I'll give it another try. This time I will be sure to get the contact information for every entrant, mailing address, email address, etc. I will make sure my contact information and ordering information will be included in the brochure. And im doing my best to get them to raise the entrant fee to cover a print from the pageant itself to be ordered off of the website.
Live and learn. At least I made a bit of money to cover my time and made some contacts that will hopefully lead to regular portraits.
You made some money, you got an insight into making it work next time.
Certainly not the worst result you could have had so on to bigger and better things!