Indoor photography - kids in dim light

olafurdanielsson · December 7, 2010

Hi everybody

Can anybody give me advice how to take photos of children, indoor with dim lightning ? E.g. by the Christmas tree. If I use the pop-up flash I loose the cosy atmosphere, but without flash the image tends to be blurry.

I know I need faster lens, but is there any tricks that can help me for now ? I have a Nikon D90 wit the kit lens, but I also have a pup up flash diffuser.

Best regards,
Ólafur

________________________________
Please feel free to view my website, olafurdanielsson.smugmug.com, and give me comments.

r3t1awr3yd · December 7, 2010

You've gotta diffuse the flash (you said you have a diffuser?) or get it off the camera. Off camera would be best but if you're not trying to buy gear to solve the problem, you can always try bouncing the diffused flash up and off the ceiling or a wall. 3x5 index card or a piece of thick paper will work.

adbsgicom · December 7, 2010

Also, dial down the Flash Exposure Compensation (FEC) of the flash you have. The electronics are designed to get the f/g subjects fully exposed, even if you set the camera to under expose, (at least from a Canon control point of view). So you may want to knock that down a couple of stops as well so you get a kiss of additional light, but not a huge pile of of. And as Wally points out, bounce or diffuse the light as well.

pathfinder · December 7, 2010

Raise the ambient lighting some with tungsten bulbs or small halogens.

What is the highest ISO you can use with your D 90? I try 800 to 1600 under your circumstances, if your camera permits.

Off camera flash, bounced off white walls or ceilings can help a great deal too!

And yes, for these kinds of candids, you do need faster glass.

Tripods and time exposures have not worked well with kids for me.

Qarik · December 7, 2010

olafurdanielsson wrote: »

Hi everybody

Can anybody give me advice how to take photos of children, indoor with dim lightning ? E.g. by the Christmas tree. If I use the pop-up flash I loose the cosy atmosphere, but without flash the image tends to be blurry.

I know I need faster lens, but is there any tricks that can help me for now ? I have a Nikon D90 wit the kit lens, but I also have a pup up flash diffuser.

Best regards,
Ólafur

________________________________
Please feel free to view my website, olafurdanielsson.smugmug.com, and give me comments.

Assuming you have maxed out your iso and have considered a tripod the best solution is going to be a diffused/bounced dedicated hot shoe flash.

Firehouses of Ohio · December 8, 2010

olafurdanielsson wrote: »

Hi everybody

Can anybody give me advice how to take photos of children, indoor with dim lightning ? E.g. by the Christmas tree. If I use the pop-up flash I loose the cosy atmosphere, but without flash the image tends to be blurry.

I know I need faster lens, but is there any tricks that can help me for now ? I have a Nikon D90 wit the kit lens, but I also have a pup up flash diffuser.

Best regards,
Ólafur

________________________________
Please feel free to view my website, olafurdanielsson.smugmug.com, and give me comments.

I once was here this is my suggestion, one of my favorite go to sources for things I'm not sure about is Scott Kelby. He has a 3 book series on "Digital Photography" and one of the things book #2 covered was in Chapter #1 "Using flash like a pro". I at one point had a professional photographer who was mentoring me and one of the very first things I did was purchase a SB-800 which at that time was around $450 and now if you search they're right around $360 to work with my D70. The flash can be used in a cordless mode and with the plate which can be used for the it to be on a flat surface/tri-pod mount and that wireless set up is covered in book #2.

What I did was follow the set up instructions and sat in a pitch black room and started shooting images with the pop-up flash and the sb-800. I experimented with & without the diffuser and the different ways of turning the head of the flash around the room at many angles you never would have known there wasn't a single light turned on in the room. Don't forget to experiment with your Flash Sync Modes & Flash Compensation.

Many of my images are shot low light with no flash so my suggestion would be the following. Max out your ISO then start experimenting with your exposure compensation which is to the right of your shutter button that has the green light next to it. I think if when you press that button down turn the wheel on the back of the body with your thumb to the right that should increase your exposure. As you experiment with this you may find there really isn't a need for your flash.

Bianco · December 8, 2010

Try bouncing the flash off the ceiling. Another low cost solution is to buy an inexpensive slave flash and use it in an umbrella or bounce it off a wall (hopefully white wall).

Most importantly figure it all out before christmas morning!

Art Scott · December 8, 2010

olafurdanielsson wrote: »

Hi everybody

Can anybody give me advice how to take photos of children, indoor with dim lightning ? E.g. by the Christmas tree. If I use the pop-up flash I loose the cosy atmosphere, but without flash the image tends to be blurry.

I know I need faster lens, but is there any tricks that can help me for now ? I have a Nikon D90 wit the kit lens, but I also have a pup up flash diffuser.

Best regards,
Ólafur

________________________________
Please feel free to view my website, olafurdanielsson.smugmug.com, and give me comments.

if the images are coming out blurry when you do not use the pop up flash then it sounds to me like a slight amount of camera shake......the kit lens is not VR is it??........so I would try shooting off a tripod if you have one, or off a table top....anything that will support the camera and use the self timer to minimize camera shake.........also shoot at a little higher iso.........What iso having you been shooting at?

Kid shooting.....are these your kids or are you starting a kid photo business??.....not that it matters I am just curious.

colourbox · December 8, 2010

The external flash solution doesn't need to be complicated or involve extra hardware. I've seen very natural-looking lighting from friends who just stick a wireless flash pointed at the ceiling on a table in the corner of the room, leave it there all night, and trigger it with the body. Diffused by both the ceiling and corner walls, the flash lights everything up evenly and with no flash on the camera you can freely move around the room. I have fast lenses but it's still hard to freeze moving people indoors without a flash because you have to get far enough above the 1/60 or 1/125th of a sec you get with available room light even at high ISO.

Another technique you should try that I learned from a friend is to mount the flash on your body but point the head behind you. Then move close to the subject and shoot. That turns the entire back of the room into a softbox and its amazing how good the pics look. (It also tends to burn out the eyes of anyone standing behind you...

)

Icebear · December 8, 2010

colourbox wrote: »

(It also tends to burn out the eyes of anyone standing behind you... )

That's the best part. People get pissed if you just point your speedlight at them and pop off a manual burst. If they think you're taking a pix, what can they say?

Qarik · December 9, 2010

colourbox wrote: »

Another technique you should try that I learned from a friend is to mount the flash on your body but point the head behind you. Then move close to the subject and shoot. That turns the entire back of the room into a softbox and its amazing how good the pics look. (It also tends to burn out the eyes of anyone standing behind you... )

yep..even better is to point it lsight behind and to a side. This give syou directional soft lighting which can look much better

PupWeb · December 16, 2010

Ditto to Colourboxs suggestion of backward flash

Note: Of course room size and how the room is painted effects this. I have had trouble with backward flash if the room has a dark paint job or finish like wood paneling & in very small rooms with ceiling fans. It's amazing at where the ceiling fan shadows fall.

Just to reiterate what others have said

Bounce that flash off something, specially if your moving and the subjects are moving like at a party or wedding.
If you're taking a posed portrait by all means use a tripod, bring in your lamps, shop lights, flashlights what ever you have to bump up that f stop. I use my duel 500watt halogen shop light all the time to light my walls or ceiling.
Raise your ISO, not too much as to make your shot too noisy. This where your $400, $800, $Thousand(s) camera bodies show their worth.

For example this last dgrin mega challenge 10 I needed to shoot at f11 or higher preferably f16 to get the effect I wanted. I started out with 2 stobes off camera, then brought in 2 soft boxes, then you guessed it my duel 500watt halogen shop light one pointing to the ceiling and the other at the clock.

Check out my exifs here

P.S. I do use a light meter, you will learn so much by using one! Well thats a different subject entirely

pathfinder · December 16, 2010

I wrote this thread about Christmas candids a couple years ago, but it is still relevant to shooting kids. I shoot Canon so this was written in Canonian, but the translation to Nikonian is really pretty straight forward, and the nice thing is, Nikonians can do off camera flash control with the built in Nikon Wireless control. Like colourbox said, get a good ETTL flash off camera somewhere in the corner of a room ( preferably one with a white ceiling ) and give this a try.

Kids move, they don't hold still, ETTL/iTTL really helps for kids.

It is not apparent from the images, in my linked thread, but it was dark enough in some of those images, that AF was slow, and it would be hard to read comfortably. That's pretty dim! f2.2 at ISO 1600 is getting dark out.

rickp · December 17, 2010

If you're using the flash upping the ISO will lighten the image even more.
Try to lower the FC and bounce the flash.

If you don't want to use the flash, try a tripod and up the exposure and ISO/

time2smile · December 17, 2010

Welcome...

use the iso of 1600 or higher, but check for noise and lower if needed, take plenty of practice shots with just the tree. the pop up dif may help take some harshness out of the pics, It sounds like the other think its an off camera unit.

dont forget the DOF will be shallow with smaller f#.

look at all your practice shots on the TV or the PC to check your focus and for noise.

good luck, Merry Christmas

olafurdanielsson wrote: »

Hi everybody

Can anybody give me advice how to take photos of children, indoor with dim lightning ? E.g. by the Christmas tree. If I use the pop-up flash I loose the cosy atmosphere, but without flash the image tends to be blurry.

I know I need faster lens, but is there any tricks that can help me for now ? I have a Nikon D90 wit the kit lens, but I also have a pup up flash diffuser.

Best regards,
Ólafur

________________________________
Please feel free to view my website, olafurdanielsson.smugmug.com, and give me comments.

neastguy · December 21, 2010

colourbox wrote: »

The external flash solution doesn't need to be complicated or involve extra hardware. I've seen very natural-looking lighting from friends who just stick a wireless flash pointed at the ceiling on a table in the corner of the room, leave it there all night, and trigger it with the body. Diffused by both the ceiling and corner walls, the flash lights everything up evenly and with no flash on the camera you can freely move around the room. I have fast lenses but it's still hard to freeze moving people indoors without a flash because you have to get far enough above the 1/60 or 1/125th of a sec you get with available room light even at high ISO.

Another technique you should try that I learned from a friend is to mount the flash on your body but point the head behind you. Then move close to the subject and shoot. That turns the entire back of the room into a softbox and its amazing how good the pics look. (It also tends to burn out the eyes of anyone standing behind you... )

are there any cheap wireless flashes out there... I heard Ritz has cheap optical slave flashes but I never seem to find them.. thanks

olafurdanielsson · January 6, 2011

Al-right!!
I´m very sorry for my very late reply.

I cant describe how much I love dgrin for giving my access to all of you - experts around the world.

I´ll try to answer some of your questions to start with. Yes, those are my own kids I´m trying to photograph. Since the pictures are supposed to be "live" looking, I do not want to use a tripod - just want to take photos "on the move" in the living room. I have now however realized that I need a better lens (and I have got discussions about that in another thread:)). I´m strongly thinking off 35 mm f1.8.

The SB-800 flash seems to be something I should buy in the nearby future. This off flash (and backwards in the eye´s) seems to be a very good idea. I look forward to trying that out myself.

Yes, Christmas is over, and I used the pop-up flash with diffuser on them, and tried to chance the exposure. That helped a lot!

And just in the end, because someone mentioned Christmas day morning... the funny thing is that here in Iceland, we open up our presents the evening before, the 24th of Dec.

Merry Christmas to all of you, and happy new year,

and thank you for your replies and comments - I appreciate it very much.

ÓD
olafurdanielsson.smugmug.com

radhak · January 7, 2011

One learner to another : for indoor pics like those, the Nikon 35mm 1.8 is the answer to all your questions. You could safely push the flash-purchase to a later date - you'll love the low light performance of that lens. My personal opinion is that it is better than the 50mm 1.8, but no scientific data to back that up.

Btw, I too am looking for a flash - I have the smaller SB400 (love it), and while it's a great help, it does not work off-camera. I am leaning towards the SB-600, for it's smaller size and cost.

olafurdanielsson wrote: »

Al-right!!
I´m very sorry for my very late reply.

I cant describe how much I love dgrin for giving my access to all of you - experts around the world.

I´ll try to answer some of your questions to start with. Yes, those are my own kids I´m trying to photograph. Since the pictures are supposed to be "live" looking, I do not want to use a tripod - just want to take photos "on the move" in the living room. I have now however realized that I need a better lens (and I have got discussions about that in another thread:)). I´m strongly thinking off 35 mm f1.8.

The SB-800 flash seems to be something I should buy in the nearby future. This off flash (and backwards in the eye´s) seems to be a very good idea. I look forward to trying that out myself.

Yes, Christmas is over, and I used the pop-up flash with diffuser on them, and tried to chance the exposure. That helped a lot!

And just in the end, because someone mentioned Christmas day morning... the funny thing is that here in Iceland, we open up our presents the evening before, the 24th of Dec.

Merry Christmas to all of you, and happy new year,

and thank you for your replies and comments - I appreciate it very much.

ÓD
olafurdanielsson.smugmug.com

Pindy · January 13, 2011

There was a great blog entry on Strobist about this a could years ago. Basically, it was one or preferably two flashes, on stands, pointed up at the ceiling, both in the corners of the room, being wirelessly triggered. He asked for PocketWizards but I used an ST-E2 and they worked great. You could more or less be anywhere in the room cause the ceiling became a very large reflector.

Pindy · January 13, 2011

here ya go:

http://strobist.blogspot.com/2007/12/christmas-game-plan-results.html

pathfinder · January 13, 2011

Pindy wrote: »

There was a great blog entry on Strobist about this a could years ago. Basically, it was one or preferably two flashes, on stands, pointed up at the ceiling, both in the corners of the room, being wirelessly triggered. He asked for PocketWizards but I used an ST-E2 and they worked great. You could more or less be anywhere in the room cause the ceiling became a very large reflector.

Pindy, that is exactly the technique I described above in this thread post #13.... Works very nice for kids too.

Christmas Candids

You could use optical peanut slaves for this technique, but you will find the exposure varies with each shot as people move about... That is the beauty of ETTL/iTTL is that flash to subject distance may vary but the speedlite will vary the light output to match. Fixed studio strobes ( without ETTL ), with unvarying output work fine for stationary subjects that never vary the flash to subject distance. I prefer them in a format studio setting - get the exposure once, set it in your camera in Manual Mode, and you are ready to rock. But for kids moving about, it is really hard to beat ETTL.

Indoor photography - kids in dim light

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