second and third flash purchase question

rickp · February 6, 2011

I currently own a speedlite 580EX II.
Now I'm thinking of expanding my lighting stuff so I'm thinking of getting one or 2 more flashes. On top of the flashes I want to get a pocketwizard Mini TT1 and Flex TT5 to control them.

So my question is can I get a 430EX II or should I get another 580EX II. The price difference is something to consider IMO and with the money I'm saving I can put it towards the pocketwizard stuff.
What do you guys think? Is there a big difference in the 2 in the way I plan on using it? BTW I also have a 270EX that I rarely use.

R.

Art Scott · February 6, 2011

why do you need 2 models of pocket wizards?? I cannot help you as I do not use canon.

pathfinder · February 6, 2011

Since you already have a 580exII that can act as a Master, your second flash could be a 430ExII, or one of the Sigma's that work with the EOS system, or even a manual flash if you were so inclined and don't need ETTL. The 580exII Guide # 190 is ~ 1 stop brighter than the 430exII Guide # 141

Be aware - the 430exII is not capable of acting as a Master to control the 580exII

rickp · February 6, 2011

Art,
The TT1 goes on the camera the TT5 on the flash.

pathfinder,
so the 430 is not as bright as the 580, right? I kind of figured that. I also read that the 430 can't be a master, and I though about that. Since I already a 580 I can't see why that would be an issue.

Let me ask you, would there be an issue using the pocketwizard Mini TT1 and Flex?

R.

Dan7312 · February 6, 2011

The 430ex and 580exII are supported by the mini/flex

http://www.pocketwizard.com/products/transmitter_receiver/36/TT1-C/compatibility/

I've got the mini/flex's. I like them a lot, now that I've gotten to a point where I understand them. BTW if you go the mini/flex route get the AC3 controller too. It will make your life so much easier.

There is an issue with the 580's in that their internal noise can interfere with the radio signal. But it's not an issue if the flashes aren't more than 30-40 ft from the camera. Beyond that you need to put the rf sock, included with the mini/flex's, on the flashes. If you have the AC3 the sock is a non-issue because you control everything from the AC3 on camera, i.e manual/eTTL level/fec.

Art: Flex is a combo transmitter/receiver but the mini is a transmiter only. The mini costs less than the flex so typically you buy one mini and then a flex for each flash.

I'm not a pro so they don't get the workout a pro would give them, but lots of pros use them.

rickp wrote: »

Art,
The TT1 goes on the camera the TT5 on the flash.

pathfinder,
so the 430 is not as bright as the 580, right? I kind of figured that. I also read that the 430 can't be a master, and I though about that. Since I already a 580 I can't see why that would be an issue.

Let me ask you, would there be an issue using the pocketwizard Mini TT1 and Flex?

R.

codrus · February 7, 2011

The downside to buying a 430 and controlling it with the 580 is that it means your off-camera flash is the less powerful one, which is probably not what you want most of the time. The advantage to buying another 580 is that you now have two flashes of equal power. If you're going to buy PWs, then you don't need to worry about which is master because you'll use the PW for that. Still, it's more flexible to have all of your flashes be of a similar power rating, especially if you decide you want to run the power levels manually rather than using E-TTL.

I have a 420EX (bought a long time ago), and two 580EX2s. If I only want 2 lights, I'll always reach for the 580s, I only pull the 420 out when I want a third light.

--Ian

rickp · February 7, 2011

Thanks for the AC3 info.

So the 430 has that much less powerful that it would be an issue if used with a 580? That sucks to be honest. I know it makes sense to use the same speedlites but I was hoping to save the difference in cost and apply it to the PW.

Again, thanks for the info on all this.

R.

Dan7312 · February 7, 2011

The 580ex does has more power than the 430ex, but that doesn't mean they can't be used together to take a picture. Typically you don't have all your flashes set to blast at full power. But the 480ex in a separate group and you can set it's power level differently than the 580ex.

rickp wrote: »

Thanks for the AC3 info.

So the 430 has that much less powerful that it would be an issue if used with a 580? That sucks to be honest. I know it makes sense to use the same speedlites but I was hoping to save the difference in cost and apply it to the PW.

Again, thanks for the info on all this.

R.

rickp · February 7, 2011

One more question then, how many flashes do I need total, 2 or 3??

R.

codrus · February 9, 2011

rickp wrote: »

So the 430 has that much less powerful that it would be an issue if used with a 580? That sucks to be honest. I know it makes sense to use the same speedlites but I was hoping to save the difference in cost and apply it to the PW.

As Dan says, you can turn the 580 down to the level where it matches the 430, but it means you have fewer options. You need to think more carefully about which flash you put where, and if you're running into flash power limitations then make sure that the 430 is in the least-demanding position. If you're using ETTL this isn't always obvious (since the software figures out flash power for you and drives them). If you're using manual power it's at least obvious when you've maxed out the 430, but you'll need to do some mental calculation swapping it with a 580 to adjust the settings on both of them. You're also limited in the overall flash power by the weakest flash in the set, so you're going to wind up with at least a small number of shots that you could have lit with a pair of 580s where a 580 plus a 420 won't cut it.

Yes, the cost savings of the 420 over the 580 are attractive, but personally I often find that I wind up regretting this kind of cost saving measure later.

--Ian

kdog · February 10, 2011

rickp wrote: »

One more question then, how many flashes do I need total, 2 or 3??

R.

What is your intended use the flashes? With that many flashes, it sounds like you're setting up a studio. If that's the case, then for the price of a single Canon Flash, you could buy three Vivitar 285's flashes, and a full set of RF602 wireless controllers and run everything manually. In a studio, you want everything manual, not ETTL. When I set up my little studio, I generally use either three or four flashes: key, fill, 1 or 2 background lights, and maybe a rim or hair light.

Matthew Saville · February 10, 2011

I honestly have never needed more than one TTL-capable flash in my life. The rest of the flashes I use (wirelessly) are just fine being $35 Vivitars on a manual low-tech radio trigger. No grief with compatibility and MacGuyvering to get things to work, just make sure the batteries are charged and start shooting. I'll use TTL for on-camera bouncing or fill, but that's it.

=Matt=

rwells · February 11, 2011

The 430EXII will probably be fine for your uses with the PW Flex system. You can use your 580EX(II) as the key light, the 430EXII as fill, or background. I'm not sure I understand all those that are concerned here. When was the last time your fill light output was the same as the key?

BTW, with the PW Flex system, you can use the 430EXII on your TT1/TT5 as MASTER! The Flex system allows this. I don't know how it works, as I don't own a 430EXII, but that's what PW is saying. (430EXII ~ not the 430EX)

rpcrowe · February 12, 2011

Are you planning touse these for portraits?????
If you can live with A/C current I would definitely get a real studio strobes instead of limping along with jury rigged hotshoe strobes.

There are many advantages to the "real studio strobes" but, the most important is the modeling light.

rickp · February 12, 2011

thanks, I really appreciate the feedback.
I'll start with my current 580EX II and my 270EX II and in the future if I feel I need another flash I'll get another 580EX II. And if things get that demanding for a full lighting studio, I'll research good solutions when I need to cross that bridge.

R.

second and third flash purchase question

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