A la carte- VS- Package pricing

Weisel · February 1, 2011

Hello fellow wedding shooters.

I have been considering switching to "a la carte" pricing. Possibly rather, giving it as an option in addition to packages.

I'd like to hear opinions and experiences on this topic!

I know, many couples want the simplicity of not having to add up costs, and do all kinds of thinking. Lord knows they have enough else to think about when planning a wedding. But...I think some would love a la carte pricing, as an option...... or even as the only option.

Have any of you ever tried it, then gone back to packages, or vice versa? Do you do a la carte, and it works?

This could be a very good discussion. :ear

Matthew Saville · February 2, 2011

I have heard from a very successful friend who basically just has one "show up" price, and then after that everything is a-la-carte, and if it's paid for in the package, (in advance, usually the final payment is due 2-4 weeks before the wedding) then it's 5% or 10% off. Done deal.

Yeah, they gotta add stuff up, but if you don't offer a million products, it's not that bad.

I mostly have people book a package that includes time, a 2nd shooter, an engagement session, a disc, a canvas, and an album. Hmm not sure if I missed anything, but you get the point. I do put a lot of effort into making it simple, though. I only have three packages, and not a zillion extras. The initial price sheet they look at when deciding to book you doesn't need to have every price of every last print size, or print package option, etc.

=Matt=

Weisel · February 2, 2011

Matt, that first bit you said, sounds about like what I have in mind. Basically a "show up" price, then go from there later. I'm really thinking about going with that. I've also decided never to shoot alone again, unless it's a 10 person wedding or something absurdly small. So I'll have my 2nd shooter price always listed as part of the deal, I think.
Thanks for the post. I'm going to consider things said. Last night I already began working on my basic a la carte pricing. I'm liking where it's heading.
One of the best benefits for the client, is that they don't end up with anything they don't want, as when they buy a package. If I can make it very simple, to where they won't have to think much or do much math, then I think the benefit is clear.

Anyone else??

tenoverthenose · February 2, 2011

I've gone back and forth on this issue too. If I could book enough clients, I would just have on flat rate for a wedding that applied to everyone and covered the bases. Probably something around 5K that treats the client right. But every wedding is different and every client has different needs/wants/desires. I've gone to the idea of including a "credit" with all of my packages. That way the clients can spend if on whatever they like - some want albums, some just prints, it's up to them. I try not to weigh them down with a outrageous number of options - my packages (hopefully) are self-explantory and cover a wide range of client needs. Of course, I am constantly re-adjusting my pricing to better fit the market and my ideal clients.

Here's a link to my pricing sheet if it helps.
http://app.shootq.com/public/patrick_pike_photos/pricing/current

mmmatt · February 4, 2011

I do packages and try to be all inclusive. I have a basic package that is a downgrade from my norm and a elite package that includes more products. I prefer to shoot full day regardless... not like I can put in a half a day on another gig in most cases so I want to work the day and get it all unless someone just can't come up with the dough, in which case I make the concession of doing part day and that is labeled my "basic package"..

The biggest reason I do packages and put them clearly on my website, is because I like to shop that way and get seriously offended when I get hit up with additional costs. I like to do 90% of my decision making before I even approach the person who would sell me a product or service. So, I don't have any desire to have people call me thinking they can maybe afford me when they can't. Most people who contact me book with me. If they meet with me they already know exactly what my pricing is and most of my terms. I have very little wasted time with dreamers and people trying to negotiate. "Here it is, take it or leave it!" A booking meeting that is about which package is far more enjoyable than one that is about wether or not they can afford me at all. Here is my pricing/package link

Matt

*edit* I also should note that my elite package includes things that I want to encourage my customers to take. The biggest of which is my guest book. This is a huge referral generator for me so I made the cost of upgrading the package the same price as the (slightly inflated) ala-cart guest book price. this helps people get over the hump and go with the better package which basically only gives the book, a little more travel time, a few more bucks printing allowance, and then discounts on other products I want to sell like albums and ttd sessions.

Weisel · February 5, 2011

mmmatt wrote: »

[/URL]Matt

*edit* I also should note that my elite package includes things that I want to encourage my customers to take. The biggest of which is my guest book. This is a huge referral generator for me .......

Yo Matt, would you mind 'splainin a bit about that guest book? How does one set up a guest book to generate referrals? Are we talking about like the type of book with all the e-pics in it?

Moogle Pepper · February 5, 2011

Weisel, the couple, while in engaged mode show it off to the friends who are or will soon to be engaged and then bam. Then at the reception when people are getting in or bored in the reception they check out what is around there and the details. Bam. They look and sign the album seeing what the images from you, or said photographer, has done.

The guest book is predominantly the images of the esession in book form.

*apple, your auto correct on the ipad is killing me.

Weisel · February 5, 2011

Moogle Pepper wrote: »

Weisel, the couple, while in engaged mode show it off to the friends who are or will soon to be engaged and then bam. Then at the reception when people are getting in or bored in the reception they check out what is around there and the details. Bam. They look and sign the album seeing what the images from you, or said photographer, has done.

The guest book is predominantly the images of the esession in book form.

*apple, your auto correct on the ipad is killing me.

Ahh yes, thanks Moogle. I have heard about that before, and have yet to really implement it. I think the time has come for this to happen. I need all the exposure I can get. I'll start making this a point to do.
~Shane

mmmatt · February 5, 2011

Moogle Pepper wrote: »

Weisel, the couple, while in engaged mode show it off to the friends who are or will soon to be engaged and then bam. Then at the reception when people are getting in or bored in the reception they check out what is around there and the details. Bam. They look and sign the album seeing what the images from you, or said photographer, has done.

The guest book is predominantly the images of the esession in book form.

*apple, your auto correct on the ipad is killing me.

Yeah, as much as we like to think that a b&g will send links to their e-session gallery to everyone they know, there is a huge majority of people at a reception who haven't seen the shots at all. I make it a point to talk to people looking at the book and especially if they look young, single, and in love!

Matt

Weisel · February 6, 2011

mmmatt wrote: »

Yeah, as much as we like to think that a b&g will send links to their e-session gallery to everyone they know, there is a huge majority of people at a reception who haven't seen the shots at all. I make it a point to talk to people looking at the book and especially if they look young, single, and in love!

Matt

This is what I needed to hear. I'm on it. I may even splurge and invest in some e-pic books that my clients aren't expecting. This will accomplish 2 things. 1) they will love me even more 2) I will get that extra exposure.

Thanks both of you.
~Shane

Moogle Pepper · February 6, 2011

Weisel wrote: »

This is what I needed to hear. I'm on it. I may even splurge and invest in some e-pic books that my clients aren't expecting. This will accomplish 2 things. 1) they will love me even more 2) I will get that extra exposure.

Thanks both of you.
~Shane

It also gives you ideas on how you want the wedding album to evolve into.

studio1972 · February 6, 2011

So the guest book is a coffee table type book with a small selection of images and lots of white space? I've seen a similar thing with a signature board (a photo with a large white border for guests to sign), but never seen this done as a guestbook. Like the idea.

dawssvt · February 8, 2011

I do packages with album credit and some print credit. www.dawsontaylorstudios.com

Glort · February 9, 2011

I have Done A La Carte for 20+ years after doing packages.

To me packages are for people that don't know how to sell and want a safety net to make sure they get a minimal order. Unfortunatley that also limits them to a maximum order as well.
I have evolved my pricing structure over the years to suit the changing market but I'm happy with what I have now and how it's working . It gaurantees my minimum but dosent cap my maximum.
People ring me and say how much are you packages and I say I don't have any, I price each individual weddin according to the wants and needs of each couple I photograph. tell me about your wedding so I can work out a price for you. And with that I have them involved and building rapport that leads to better than 76% of them having already made the decision to book me by the time they get into the studio.

Basicaly all my prices are in my head and I don't have a single figure or price ( or a price list). I look at each individual wedding and the amount of work/ Pain in the butt factor and what the couple are looking for.
I take into account things like the reception venue and other factors and price my coverage commensurate with what they are spending on other parts of the wedding.

I will then give them a figure and inclusions and write it on a bit of paper for them. For the album, I will include a number of pages of no specific size prints or number, and the album cover itself. I will flat out ask if they want a wall enlargement if I haven't worked that out from our interview discussion ( rare) and include it or not. Sometimes I include 3 to sweeten a deal because there is heaps of value added for next to no cost.

I repeatedly stress and joke to the couple that their wedding sounds like an awsome opportunity for photo taking and that they are going to want to add heaps to the basic coverage I have given them which will typicaly include 20-30 pages and give them an extra per page price.
I'll tell them again they will spend more when they come in for the final payment 2 weeks before the wedding and I'll tell them a few times on the day as we get good shots I show them on the back of the camera not to spend all thier money on the honey moon because there are going to be a heap of extra pics they are going to want to put in their album.

After the wedding, before the couple return, I do a complete album layout and this will normally run 50-60 pages. I make sure to especially pad out the front of the album.
They come back, I tell them they can lay the album out as they like but because the pics were so awsome, I did a layout for a display album of my own of their pics ( BIG ego massage there!) and I'll just run through that so they get an idea of the possibilities.

Realising the difficulty in doing it themselves, they have never failed to want to just modify my layout. That means taking pics out rather than putting them in which is a big Phsycological difference in the mindset of the sale process. When they see me hit the delete buttom and say Bang, there gone!" a couple of times, they feel like they are loosing something and tend to err on the side of keeping rather than deleting.
Usually I change or replace maybe 5 pics tops in the final album and as I work on a copy of full size layouts, the album is ready to print by the time they leave. I have about 1-2 couples a year that just say "we love it as is, we'll take that" and I straight away double to triple my initial coverage value.

Generally I have upsold another 10-15 pages @ 150ea by the time they are finished. On the few occasions over the years they only add say 5 pages, I have already made good money on the basic coverage so I'm fine.

I had a mother come in with the couple once who told them they couldn't change a thing in the album, it was perfect. They said they didn't have the money for the extras, a bit over $2k ( which is always the reason the couple want to cut down what I show them) and the mother said she'd cover it and then proceeded to order another album exactly the same only with a few extra pages of family shots for herself. I charged her for the pages and threw in the covers and she was happy and I was hoping to hell she understood what she was up for. Her credit card was in hand waiting and she paid there and then.

I organised a baby sitter for that weekend and took my wife to dinner at a very fancy restaurant and we spent the night in the city at a flash hotel.
That was a GOOD sale ! :ivar

The problem with packages as I see it is they are too " Shoppable" as well as confusing. They can compare what this guy and that gives in how many pics of what size etc.
This is perfectly the opposite to what you want for so many Reasons.
The main one being that it puts focus on the numbers rather than the quality and creativity of the work.

If they ask me how many they get of a certain size I can tell them "you might have 20 pics if you make them all 1 big one to a page, you might have 40 if you use the middle size and you could have 80 if you go for 4 small shots one each page. In reality you will have a mix that tells the story of your day as you want it."

There is nothing for them to compare there and it helps me stand out from the other vultures they will go and see. they are also painfully aware that the price will be different anyway according to what they add in so even that isn't really specific.
I hammer home the message that this is about telling the story of their day that they will have for the rest of their lives, ( Even if they only are together for 2 years!) and get them excited about the possibilities of what we can create, not how many 6x4 and 5x7's they get in an album.

Obviously there is a lot in how confident you are in selling that will dictate the best offering being packages or a la Carte but I can certainly make the latter work a lot better for me than the former ever did or I ever could now as well.

ShepsMom · February 10, 2011

I have "show up and shoot" starting price listed with dvd, the rest is a la carte. Custom packages are the way to go.

Matthew Saville · February 18, 2011

Glort, thanks for posting, I really appreciated reading your thoughts.

Off the record, what style of salesmanship are you referring to when you talk about "vultures"? Per-picture album pricing? Or is there a different pricing model that you don't like? Just curious. Clearly you're good at what you do and I'm always hungry for information / research. I'm NOT AT ALL a good salesman, so I don't rely on my "upsell" much at all, but I do focus a lot on simply being positive, being excited about showing them the photos, and letting them choose what to add / subtract.

Also out of curiosity: When you're "gauging" the couples and giving them an estimate, do you EVER ask them if they have a budget? Or do you think that is just another opportunity for them to put a cap on potential sales? I am currently considering the notion because I believe that, relative to the quality of my work and the people who inquire, I am under-selling myself sometimes.

=Matt=

Shima · February 18, 2011

mmmatt wrote: »

Yeah, as much as we like to think that a b&g will send links to their e-session gallery to everyone they know, there is a huge majority of people at a reception who haven't seen the shots at all. I make it a point to talk to people looking at the book and especially if they look young, single, and in love!

Matt

Hmmm I'm very intrigued by this, I've seen it done by other photographers in the past and I have always thought it's a great idea just never done it myself. What type of book do you print for their guest book? I'm assuming something not overly expensive since you want people to be able to sign it and don't need it as fancy as the post-wedding flush mount album...just curious what style book you go with and what that cost is to you.

Weisel · February 18, 2011

Shima wrote: »

Hmmm I'm very intrigued by this, I've seen it done by other photographers in the past and I have always thought it's a great idea just never done it myself. What type of book do you print for their guest book? I'm assuming something not overly expensive since you want people to be able to sign it and don't need it as fancy as the post-wedding flush mount album...just curious what style book you go with and what that cost is to you.

I'm also awaiting replies on this, but for me, I think I would go with Blurb for such a book. Blurb.com Great flush mount photo books, and totally affordable for this. Like $35 range.

Shulvy · February 18, 2011

Weisel wrote: »

I'm also awaiting replies on this, but for me, I think I would go with Blurb for such a book. Blurb.com Great flush mount photo books, and totally affordable for this. Like $35 range.

The glossy -ish pages of a blurb book are not great for this. I've found that a press printed album on a watercolor paper or recycled art paper is best.

ShepsMom · February 18, 2011

Shulvy wrote: »

The glossy -ish pages of a blurb book are not great for this. I've found that a press printed album on a watercolor paper or recycled art paper is best.

You can make a photobook with any album company, i made one with BRI, it came out fantastic! It has hard pages vs. Blurb's soft/magazine style.

One side with image(s) the other for signatures. Depending on how many guests your client expect, you can make up to 30 pages.

Glort · February 18, 2011

Matthew Saville wrote: »

Glort, thanks for posting, I really appreciated reading your thoughts.

Off the record, what style of salesmanship are you referring to when you talk about "vultures"? Per-picture album pricing? Or is there a different pricing model that you don't like? Just curious.

Hey Matt,

The Vulture Comment isn't towards anything in particular. Just a persopnal slang term for what I feel it's like when you have an oversaturation of sellers of one particular service all trying to get the business off a limited audience as happens at bridal fairs. I would count myself as much as a Vulture as anyone else in that context.

I have been to some bridal fairs where there are some very pushy people and as much as I would like to say they ailenate people, they get a lot in as well. Over the years I have seen may people that were far better sales people than they were shooters and they did very, very well for themselves.

I do focus a lot on simply being positive, being excited about showing them the photos, and letting them choose what to add / subtract.

Perfect!
They buy the person, the product and the price in that order. Positive and excited is EXACTLY the way you need to be.

Also out of curiosity: When you're "gauging" the couples and giving them an estimate, do you EVER ask them if they have a budget?

I would ask EVERY couple what their budget is!
I ask them on the initial Phone contact. If they are talking $500, then I know I'm too far away to be what they want and they are certainly not the clients I want. better to blow them off real early on that waste any time doing a presentation with clients that are on another wave length.

Once I have verified price, then it isn't mentioned again till right at the end. Once I have qualified they can afford me, price is no longer an issue. Building a rapport with the people, showing them I can give them what they want and that I'm not going to be a boring, overbearing pain in the butt all day that is going to drive them nuts IS the important thing.

One thing on asking about budget, I am NEVER within their budget.
I am always a few hundred Dollars MORE than what they quote me when I ask.
Why?
Maybe ego.
I want them to book me because they like my work not because of price and lets face it, they are always going to be conservative to try and get your price down anyway. I'll tell them that I can't do what they want ( for instance) $1000, my price is $1300. They always say, that's OK and I verify they can afford that so that removes the main objection they have later and i can feed it back to them in my closing.

The other thing is what I call the power base. I have to call the shots, literally . If you show that you will lower your price without good reason and are too accomodating, then they are in control and your being controlled. I have to keep control of the transaction and have them come to me rather than I'm chasing them otherwise it makes so many other things difficult.

Perhaps this sounds arrogant? I think it is and I also think that you have to be the tiniest bit arrogant ( Tiny and carefully) in order to maintain your respect and credibility from teh clients. It's a very fine line, but one I believe needs to be established.

I also look for reasons to say NO to clients.
By saying no and then saying, I won't do this because of XXX. and then show them your experince and knowledge as to why this is not in their best interests shows then that you actually have their interest at heart and you are not prepared to compromise your quality and work ethic. That builds respect and I don't want to work with people that want a yes man because I'm a dead set fail at role.

Or do you think that is just another opportunity for them to put a cap on potential sales? I am currently considering the notion because I believe that, relative to the quality of my work and the people who inquire, I am under-selling myself sometimes.

=Matt=

Another technique on the budget front is to as clients their budget and when they give you the figure, you raise your eyes, lift your head and say " Up to" meaning From teh figure they gave you up to the higher figure they will now give you. works 9 out of 10 times and typically you'll get a 25-50 % jump in them telling you what they want to spend.

That is a very powerful sales technique that takes practice and timing but I laught to myself every time I use it and get a jump of $1000 or more in their budjet. When you add to the effect by writing the figures down on your notes where they can see them, they know they are locked into those figures because they just gave them to you.

If you feel they are low balling you, this is a great counter tactic and then of course, I'll throw $3-500 on the top at the end.

It's also good to ask budget AFTER you find out the basic details like what church they are having, how many guests at the reception and where the wedding is.
If they are having 300 people at a place you know is charging $150 a head,and they tell you they have a $1500 photo budget, you know you better qualify that. OTOH, if they are having 50 people in the local commounity hall, and telling you they have a $5k photo budget, then you better verify that as well.

Mind you, my best ever wedding sale to date was to some clients whom were better off than most and had a very modest ( to say the least) wedding because as far as they were concerned they had each other, a couple of rings and the photes when it was all over and they wanted to put the money into the pics.
And boy, they sure did!

Mind you, that's a one off in 20+ years so don't base your marketing on a very exceptional event.

holzphoto · February 20, 2011

blurb books are horrible.

Matthew Saville · February 21, 2011

holzphoto wrote: »

blurb books are horrible.

I find that if they don't screw them up in printing, they serve a purpose beautifully.

I've been making soft-cover, premium paper "proof books" for years now and clients love them as a purse-size, lightweight way to fit ~150 images into a product. It compliments a traditional album VERY nicely, in fact. (Since it would make a pretty cluttered album, trying to fit 150 photos into 30-40 pages)

If you know of anywhere better to get a similarly small, quality, and affordable product, you're welcome to mention it!

=Matt=

Matthew Saville · February 21, 2011

Glort wrote: »

Hey Matt,

The Vulture Comment isn't towards anything in particular. Just a persopnal slang term for what I feel it's like when you have an oversaturation of sellers of one particular service all trying to get the business off a limited audience as happens at bridal fairs. I would count myself as much as a Vulture as anyone else in that context.

I have been to some bridal fairs where there are some very pushy people and as much as I would like to say they ailenate people, they get a lot in as well. Over the years I have seen may people that were far better sales people than they were shooters and they did very, very well for themselves.

...

Thanks a ton for the info and tips. Confirms a lot of the things I have realized / practiced myself in the past few years, and I like the "up to...?" line for asking the client's budget. I'll give it a try!

=Matt=

A la carte- VS- Package pricing

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