Help, Einstein or Alien Bee 1600

r9jackson · August 12, 2011

I have a need to buy some big strobes. I have researched many brands and price is driving me to some of the Paul C Buff products. I want to get two (maybe 4) units of around 640 WS.
The Einstein seems to be better in terms of turning down the power. But other than that, is it worth about $175 more than the AB1600?
I will be using them for indoor sports (volleyball and basketball) and shooting large groups outdoors and indoors. I will use the reflector for this.
For the groups, what size umbrella should I get. I like the PLM units from Buff.

fredjclaus · August 12, 2011

My money is on Alien Bee just because i don't know enough about Einstein yet.

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I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=43.080231,-78.955705

Art Scott · August 13, 2011

If you really want all the specials that the Einstein offers then go for it.....if you can live with powerful "basic" flashes...then go for the AB's.........I have done commercial stuff with the oldest of the White Lightnings that only had power settings of 1/3, 1/2 & full....but I meter everything (sekonic L558)....I do not need all the extra electronics of the Einstein, therefore my WL 5000's and AB800 will do the jobs for me.

Zerodog · August 13, 2011

I am curious to see the responses here. The Einsteins seem like a lot of light for the $$$ but do you really need the gizmos? I like gizmos.......

NeilL · August 13, 2011

I'm going through the same torn-between! I've done quite a bit of crawling around the web for the definitive decision clincher info. Not there yet. But I know I must get big lights.

The three big practical differences claimed for the Einstein over the B1600 are the Es can be dialled down to almost nothing, colour shift while doing that is much less, and the crazy short flash durations.

For me where I will be using them mostly in small indoor spaces, the ability to adjust the lights right down is a huge point - I don't want to have to put a blanket over them, or be forced to use apertures and shutter speeds I don't want just so stuff doesn't blow out.

As far as little colour shift is concerned, it's big if you have to work fast and can't meticulously tailor exposure and WB for each shot. On the other hand, I am typically metering and taking a grey card (SpyderCube) for every new shooting set. I have read a test report on the colour differences between the Es and the Bs, which found the light from the Es was overall more neutral, but very little difference in shift through power settings.

Re flash speed, obviously something halfway decent is needed for stopping fast action. Es are crazy in this respect - there are some shots from a photog in Melbourne Australia of a model copping bucketfuls of fluids splashing over her which are amazing, but the Bs are adequate probably for the usual needs. There is also a test report that shows that the Es' high speed flash causes spectral separation on the speed vs colour setting. The recommendation was to use, counterintuitively, the latter instead of the former to lessen that for very high flash speed. The 580EXII was better in this regard than the Es.

Don't have links, sorry, they have disappeared round the bend!

My big question is whether the B300/400/800 have enough of the oomph and cover which are the main reasons for getting big lights at all????

dunno

BTW r9jackson, apparently there is no reflector comes with the E, + Calumet has some of their lights very cheap for the next few days.

Neil

ImageX Photography · August 13, 2011

I have Einsteins and they are absolutely worth the upgrade. I also have the Cyber Commander system which is insanely cool. Having FULL remote control of your light, modeling lamps, and saving up to 50 "lighting set ups" is too cool. There is hardly anything on the market like it at any price point. VERY advanced system. With Einstein's, not only can you turn them way down, but you have one of the fastest flashes on the planet for stopping action. The Einstein is a better value than the B1600.... period. I have 2 and will be buying 3 more. Combine the Einsteins and Cyber Commander with a Vagabond Mini or two and you have an extremely portable and remote controlled studio.

I also have a 64" Silver PLM and the new 86" Soft Silver PLM and.... they... are... awesome. I use both of those and my Mola Demi beauty dish as my main modifiers.

R9jackson, you may find these link very helpful since it's about Einsteins, PLM's, and indoor sports.

http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=7-10053-10715

http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=7-10046-10396

Zerodog · August 17, 2011

Very nice. That is what I would like to obtain in the near future.

ImageX Photography · August 18, 2011

Zerodog wrote: »

Very nice. That is what I would like to obtain in the near future.

I think you would be very happy with Einsteins. They are very versatile lights. I highly reccomend the Cyber Commander as well to get the most out of them. Together, the system is smarter than anything out there.

Zerodog · August 18, 2011

All of the PCB stuff seems to be serious bang for the buck too. All of the light modifiers are very reasonably priced.

ImageX Photography · August 18, 2011

Zerodog wrote: »

All of the PCB stuff seems to be serious bang for the buck too. All of the light modifiers are very reasonably priced.

It really is the best bang per buck stuff out there. If you love gizmos.... you will love Einsteins/Cyber Commander.

I love my new 86" Soft Silver PLM too. I think you have the 86" silver, right? I have the 64" in silver but the new Soft Silver basically lets you use it without the diffuser for nice soft light. Great modifiers for low cost! I would have bought the PCB beauty dish too BUT I HAD to get the Mola instead.

SPK64 · August 18, 2011

r9jackson wrote: »

I have a need to buy some big strobes. I have researched many brands and price is driving me to some of the Paul C Buff products. I want to get two (maybe 4) units of around 640 WS.
The Einstein seems to be better in terms of turning down the power. But other than that, is it worth about $175 more than the AB1600?
I will be using them for indoor sports (volleyball and basketball) and shooting large groups outdoors and indoors. I will use the reflector for this.
For the groups, what size umbrella should I get. I like the PLM units from Buff.

I recently sold 3 Alien Bees and replaced them all with Einsteins. Not regretting it at all.

I already have the cybersyncs and a cyber commander. Einsteins + Cyber Commander is a perfect combination for me. The remote control to adjust lights works nicely when they are placed out of reach. The fine control and instant feedback makes it so easy to get the lights setup and dialed in. Low to high power and everything in between with same quality light.

Zerodog · August 19, 2011

You guys suck. I am now pondering how to get me some of these. I have a downhill bike I need to get sold. This is motivation to do it! I really like my flashes and the Nikon CLS. But, for action stuff I get 1 shot. If I miss, I miss. And an Einstein costs the same as another SB900. If you think about them like that, it is not really hard to justify getting big lights.

ImageX I just have a 60" convertible umbrella. I will get some monster parabolics at some point.

Art Scott · August 19, 2011

Zerodog wrote: »

I really like my flashes and the Nikon CLS. But, for action stuff I get 1 shot. If I miss, I miss. And an Einstein costs the same as another SB900. If you think about them like that, it is not really hard to justify getting big lights.

I just improved the recycle time of my SB900's by getting a Quantum MKZ9 cable + my Quantum Battery 1+ ...I have not timed it but I can just blast away in the ttl mode...I do have the thermal warning shut off......does not seem to heat up much at all.

ImageX Photography · August 19, 2011

Zerodog wrote: »

You guys suck. I am now pondering how to get me some of these. I have a downhill bike I need to get sold. This is motivation to do it! I really like my flashes and the Nikon CLS. But, for action stuff I get 1 shot. If I miss, I miss. And an Einstein costs the same as another SB900. If you think about them like that, it is not really hard to justify getting big lights.

ImageX I just have a 60" convertible umbrella. I will get some monster parabolics at some point.

Took this just for you. Perfect frame to frame accuracy. Thought you might need even more motivation for action stuff.

Zerodog · August 23, 2011

Image X that is what I am talking about. Looks great. The review I read said it was doing 10fps. The issues I have with off camera flash might be from the Nikon CLS too. So just added external power will not solve the problem 100%. Will radio triggers work better for triggering sb 600s and 900s remotely during continuous shooting?

angevin1 · August 23, 2011

Zerodog wrote: »

Will radio triggers work better for triggering sb 600s and 900s remotely during continuous shooting?

Y E S ! With the radio triggers, you can ignore the line of sight thing!

Zerodog · August 24, 2011

But can you get at least 5fps?

angevin1 · August 24, 2011

Zerodog wrote: »

But can you get at least 5fps?

Whats with this "More" thing? j/k!

You can get any fps you had before with a trigger. question is, will the flash/s keep up?

Zerodog · August 24, 2011

No they won't keep up for long.

angevin1 · August 24, 2011

Zerodog wrote: »

No they won't keep up for long.

Exactly! That is why many folks double or even triple up on their HotShoe flashes or Go the way of the Ab/eS/WL~

ImageX Photography · August 26, 2011

Zerodog wrote: »

Image X that is what I am talking about. Looks great. The review I read said it was doing 10fps. The issues I have with off camera flash might be from the Nikon CLS too. So just added external power will not solve the problem 100%. Will radio triggers work better for triggering sb 600s and 900s remotely during continuous shooting?

Yeah, they will work better. A good trigger should keep up with your camera's highest shutter speed as well as it's frame rate. I use Cyber Syncs and love the flawless performance they give... at a good price too. You can only use manual of course but then your flash doesn't heat up as fast with the TTL pre-flashes. Speedlights just can't keep up with a proper strobe. Not even close. Maybe at 1/4 power for a few seconds but that's about it. I think you will really really like the Einsteins... especially if you're into action. Love mine and plan on buying many more!

angevin1 wrote: »

Exactly! That is why many folks double or even triple up on their HotShoe flashes or Go the way of the Ab/eS/WL~

..... and still not as good as my Einsteins.

Those are my cheap $10 PT-04 CNII triggers. They flat out suck when compared to Cyber Syncs. I have numerous transmitters for them and modified them with a coiled internal antennae. They are much better now with much more range.

Wachel · September 12, 2011

I just ordered this! WOO! I am going to be shooting an Army ball so I need to get my formal set up finalized and then learn it! I am excited to say the least.

Jonnyyaya · November 8, 2011

I have been reading up on all the lights out there I have 3 AB800 that I am selling looking at the Einstein's now after reading this I am leaning more that direction. I do some indoor studio stuff once in awhile. But like to use them outside also for action and people. Now I just need to figure out what else to purchase for them, I see Image X has the 86" Soft Silver. What else do you use or like.

Thank You

NeilL · November 8, 2011

Jonnyyaya wrote: »

I have been reading up on all the lights out there I have 3 AB800 that I am selling looking at the Einstein's now after reading this I am leaning more that direction. I do some indoor studio stuff once in awhile. But like to use them outside also for action and people. Now I just need to figure out what else to purchase for them, I see Image X has the 86" Soft Silver. What else do you use or like.

Thank You

I think you will love the Einsteins. The parabolics from AB are very well received and I have seen them used for outdoors sports.

Neil

ImageX Photography · November 10, 2011

Jonnyyaya wrote: »

I have been reading up on all the lights out there I have 3 AB800 that I am selling looking at the Einstein's now after reading this I am leaning more that direction. I do some indoor studio stuff once in awhile. But like to use them outside also for action and people. Now I just need to figure out what else to purchase for them, I see Image X has the 86" Soft Silver. What else do you use or like.

Thank You

I use the Cyber Commander system.... because it's awesome and easy to use. It's a must have with Einsteins. I also have an extreme silver PLM as well as a Mola beauty dish w/ grid(awesomeness) that I use with my strobes. I haven't tested it yet but I also just bought one of those car "jump boxes" to plug my Vagabond Mini into while I shoot so it can be charging as I shoot. You can't plug a strobe straight into the jump box because it doesn't have a pure sine wave inverter. This is only for long shoots though where I feel the Vagabond Mini may drain on me. I will probably buy a second VM battery too though. I've always wanted a "jump box" and basically just found another excuse to buy one. lol I also plan to buy some Buff long throw reflectors soon for sports.

Help, Einstein or Alien Bee 1600

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