Shooting Indoor Basketball - Discussion Thread

AndyAndy Registered Users Posts: 50,016 Major grins
edited November 21, 2011 in Sports
Thanks to Steve Cavigliano for his most excellent Tutorial:

http://dgrin.smugmug.com/gallery/1188111

Discuss here.

Comments

  • JimMJimM Registered Users Posts: 1,389 Major grins
    edited February 9, 2006
    I have heard of some photographers placing strobes in the top corners of the bleachers and wirelessly triggering them to get some better lighting. Anyone heard of, seen, or tried this?
    Cameras: >(2) Canon 20D .Canon 20D/grip >Canon S200 (p&s)
    Glass: >Sigma 17-35mm,f2.8-4 DG >Tamron 28-75mm,f2.8 >Canon 100mm 2.8 Macro >Canon 70-200mm,f2.8L IS >Canon 200mm,f2.8L
    Flash: >550EX >Sigma EF-500 DG Super >studio strobes

    Sites: Jim Mitte Photography - Livingston Sports Photos - Brighton Football Photos
  • MattGoinsMattGoins Registered Users Posts: 44 Big grins
    edited February 9, 2006
    Andy McNeil, the campus photographer at UW-Platteville, does something similar to that Jim, using a single strobe that he mounts on the wall at the base of the bleachers at whatever end he's shooting at. He does this for men's and women's basketball, and for volleyball as well.

    http://www.uwplatt.edu/athletics/basketball/mens/05-06/uwrf/index.htm

    An example of his work.
  • AndyAndy Registered Users Posts: 50,016 Major grins
    edited February 9, 2006
    MattGoins wrote:
    Andy McNeil, the campus photographer at UW-Platteville, does something similar to that Jim, using a single strobe that he mounts on the wall at the base of the bleachers at whatever end he's shooting at. He does this for men's and women's basketball, and for volleyball as well.

    http://www.uwplatt.edu/athletics/basketball/mens/05-06/uwrf/index.htm

    An example of his work.

    I would think this'd require AD approval, but it's a neat idea thumb.gif
  • wxwaxwxwax Registered Users Posts: 15,471 Major grins
    edited February 9, 2006
    We've covered that in another thread, I believe, that linked to fredmiranda. He showed his set-up. Very cool idea.

    Here's our thread.

    The miranda link is now dead.
    Sid.
    Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam
    http://www.mcneel.com/users/jb/foghorn/ill_shut_up.au
  • BodleyBodley Registered Users Posts: 766 Major grins
    edited February 9, 2006
    JimM wrote:
    I have heard of some photographers placing strobes in the top corners of the bleachers and wirelessly triggering them to get some better lighting. Anyone heard of, seen, or tried this?

    I've been using a pair of 580ex's on 13' stands off the corners fired with multimax's.

    Examples:

    55767687-M.jpg

    51565833-M.jpg

    51605372-M.jpg
    Greg
    "Tis better keep your mouth shut and be thought of as an idiot than to open your mouth and remove all doubt"
  • MattGoinsMattGoins Registered Users Posts: 44 Big grins
    edited February 10, 2006
    Andy wrote:
    I would think this'd require AD approval, but it's a neat idea thumb.gif
    Me posting that link, or him using the strobes as he does?

    ne_nau.gif
  • mercphotomercphoto Registered Users Posts: 4,550 Major grins
    edited February 10, 2006
    Bodley wrote:
    I've been using a pair of 580ex's on 13' stands off the corners fired with multimax's.
    Wow. I knew that was a strong flash but had no idea a pair would be that effective. With the multimax can you ETTL? Or do you have the flashes on manual?
    Bill Jurasz - Mercury Photography - Cedar Park, TX
    A former sports shooter
    Follow me at: https://www.flickr.com/photos/bjurasz/
    My Etsy store: https://www.etsy.com/shop/mercphoto?ref=hdr_shop_menu
  • BodleyBodley Registered Users Posts: 766 Major grins
    edited February 10, 2006
    mercphoto wrote:
    Wow. I knew that was a strong flash but had no idea a pair would be that effective. With the multimax can you ETTL? Or do you have the flashes on manual?

    It's all manual - but that hasn't been a problem thus far. I shoot with the flashes on full power (most of the time) also with the CP-E3 battery packs.
    Greg
    "Tis better keep your mouth shut and be thought of as an idiot than to open your mouth and remove all doubt"
  • gdaddygdaddy Registered Users Posts: 26 Big grins
    edited September 5, 2008
    Indoor Sports / basketball
    Here is a questions for indoor sports photography.
    Camera: Canon 40D / Lens: 85mm F1.8 / Flash: none
    Crop factor: 1.6 / Lighting: What the gym has to offer, ambient light not too bad.
    Location: first row bleachers, NOT under the basket.

    Is f/1.8 going to produce enough depth of field?
    Is Aperture priority at F/2 a good starting point? Or should i start with Shutter priority at 1/500th.?
    Is ISO 800 enough to cause a fast enough shutter speed to stop action?
    Considering the light is indoor gym but fairly good, are these settings going to produce a good exposure?
    what do you think about the coffee filter white balance ?
    Thanks for your replies? Harold
  • donekdonek Registered Users Posts: 655 Major grins
    edited September 5, 2008
    gdaddy wrote:
    Here is a questions for indoor sports photography.
    Camera: Canon 40D / Lens: 85mm F1.8 / Flash: none
    Crop factor: 1.6 / Lighting: What the gym has to offer, ambient light not too bad.
    Location: first row bleachers, NOT under the basket.

    Is f/1.8 going to produce enough depth of field?
    Is Aperture priority at F/2 a good starting point? Or should i start with Shutter priority at 1/500th.?
    Is ISO 800 enough to cause a fast enough shutter speed to stop action?
    Considering the light is indoor gym but fairly good, are these settings going to produce a good exposure?
    what do you think about the coffee filter white balance ?
    Thanks for your replies? Harold

    A lot of this stuff has been covered, but I'm not sure how recently. Ditch the auto modes completely. Shoot in manual. The gyms I shoot in, I'd be lucky to get 1/400, f1.8 at iso 1600. It all depends on your gym though. If you want to see samples of photos taken with an 85mm f1.6 iso 1600, check out my basketball and volleyball galleries here:
    http://www.seanmartinphoto.com/Local%20Events
    Most of those were shot with a bounce flash on ttl to remove some of the shadows on the faces.

    You have an excellent tool on your camera for determining the results of your exposure immediately. Take test shots and examine the histogram. If it's all off to the left, you're under exposed. Make adjustments to move it as close to the right as possible. This is the best way to find out if you're getting a good exposure before getting home and looking at your shots on the computer. Trust the histogram, not your display.

    The coffee filter technique works OK. If you can't afford an expo disc, try a lally cap (SP?).
    Sean Martin
    www.seanmartinphoto.com

    __________________________________________________
    it's not the size of the lens that matters... It's how you focus it.

    aaaaa.... who am I kidding!

    whoever dies with the biggest coolest piece of glass, wins!
  • aktseaktse Registered Users Posts: 1,928 Major grins
    edited September 5, 2008
    gdaddy wrote:
    what do you think about the coffee filter white balance ?
    If you use the search function, you would have found a dicussion on using a coffee filter for white balance.

    Also, this thread and this thread provides some control experiments on various tools. The general gist -- a calibrated and purposely made WB tool (any) is worth the expensive. I own a few WB tools and I'll use all of them, but my curent fav is the phoxle one.

    And as for everything else -- agree completley with donek. And if needed, don't forget you can always go to ISO 1600/3200 on the 40D.

    The histogram is your friend.:D
  • LadybugieLadybugie Registered Users Posts: 19 Big grins
    edited September 5, 2008
    gdaddy wrote:
    Here is a questions for indoor sports photography.
    Camera: Canon 40D / Lens: 85mm F1.8 / Flash: none
    Crop factor: 1.6 / Lighting: What the gym has to offer, ambient light not too bad.
    Location: first row bleachers, NOT under the basket.

    Is f/1.8 going to produce enough depth of field?
    Is Aperture priority at F/2 a good starting point? Or should i start with Shutter priority at 1/500th.?
    Is ISO 800 enough to cause a fast enough shutter speed to stop action?
    Considering the light is indoor gym but fairly good, are these settings going to produce a good exposure?
    what do you think about the coffee filter white balance ?
    Thanks for your replies? Harold

    Hello gdaddy,
    It will all depend on the gym youre gonna be. We cant really tell. Obviously that if the light conditions are really as good as you say, everything will go smoothly. Check the histogram if youre in doubt, because its accurate. Try to use at least 1/400 as shutter speed.

    I think 1.8 is too shallow, well, at least Ive never used it. Good luck and post some of your pictures later. thumb.gif
  • rockcanyonphotosrockcanyonphotos Registered Users Posts: 117 Major grins
    edited September 8, 2008
    gdaddy wrote:
    Here is a questions for indoor sports photography.
    Camera: Canon 40D / Lens: 85mm F1.8 / Flash: none
    Crop factor: 1.6 / Lighting: What the gym has to offer, ambient light not too bad.
    Location: first row bleachers, NOT under the basket.

    Is f/1.8 going to produce enough depth of field?
    Is Aperture priority at F/2 a good starting point? Or should i start with Shutter priority at 1/500th.?
    Is ISO 800 enough to cause a fast enough shutter speed to stop action?
    Considering the light is indoor gym but fairly good, are these settings going to produce a good exposure?
    what do you think about the coffee filter white balance ?
    Thanks for your replies? Harold

    Either f-stop should be ok. I have used both with no real problem. I would recommend staying away from either Shutter or Aperture priority and go manual. Whenever I use Aperture priority mode I end up with shutterspeeds that are all over the place. And the variations are not good (typically over or under exposing the image). At my gym I found that ISO1600, f2.0 and 1/500 shutterspeed works pretty solid.

    If this is a HS gym without a flash, then lighting probably isn't going to be all that great...and with the light cycling problem I just shoot RAW and fix WB in PP.

    I am sure others with more experience in BB than I can provide even more insights.

    regards, Kevin
    www.rockcanyonphotos.com

    Canon 1DM4, 300mm 2.8, 70-200mm 2.8, 200mm 1.8, 24-70mm 2.8, 85mm 1.8
  • gdaddygdaddy Registered Users Posts: 26 Big grins
    edited September 8, 2008
    Either f-stop should be ok. I have used both with no real problem. I would recommend staying away from either Shutter or Aperture priority and go manual. Whenever I use Aperture priority mode I end up with shutterspeeds that are all over the place. And the variations are not good (typically over or under exposing the image). At my gym I found that ISO1600, f2.0 and 1/500 shutterspeed works pretty solid.

    If this is a HS gym without a flash, then lighting probably isn't going to be all that great...and with the light cycling problem I just shoot RAW and fix WB in PP.

    I am sure others with more experience in BB than I can provide even more insights.

    regards, Kevin

    Thanks everyone for your time to respond. KEVIN< You comment about shooting RAW and fixing WB afterwards. I read or got a response about WB that suggest setting a custom white balance by switching to manual focus and making sure the shutter time was 1/60 or slower to ensure a complete cycle due the lighting you refer to. Do you have a comment about this?
    Thanks, anyone else want to comment about the custom white balance under the same situation. All responses are appreciated.
    Harold
  • johngjohng Registered Users Posts: 1,658 Major grins
    edited September 8, 2008
    gdaddy wrote:
    Thanks, anyone else want to comment about the custom white balance under the same situation. All responses are appreciated.
    Harold

    Out of the dozen or so gyms I've shot in the last 3 years only 1 did not allow for the above method to work - i.e. in this single gym I had to correct each shot. But in the other 11, setting a custom WB like you mentioned worked. I would suggest giving it a try. Manually setting WB on 70-100 shots in raw conversion is a lot of extra effort. You may still get tiny fluctuations but it's a huge timesaver over doing individual raw conversions.
  • rockcanyonphotosrockcanyonphotos Registered Users Posts: 117 Major grins
    edited September 8, 2008
    gdaddy wrote:
    Thanks everyone for your time to respond. KEVIN< You comment about shooting RAW and fixing WB afterwards. I read or got a response about WB that suggest setting a custom white balance by switching to manual focus and making sure the shutter time was 1/60 or slower to ensure a complete cycle due the lighting you refer to. Do you have a comment about this?
    Thanks, anyone else want to comment about the custom white balance under the same situation. All responses are appreciated.
    Harold

    I guess if I were a real good pro I could make manual focus and 1/60 work?!? but at that shutter speed I don't know how you would stop the action. I really like to pull off 1/500 or better to stop action and that combined with an 8fps burst just leaves WB all over the place (pink, yellow, perfect). Sounds like others have used expo disk and had it work.... certainly worth a shot. doing the conversion in RAW has never been a big deal for me, but JohnG is right... if you can save the time of not doing it then that is always going to be better....

    QUESTION FOR JOHNG: I haven't used my ExpoDisc since I converted to RAW a few years ago. With ExpoDisc in a gym... would you point it at the lights to get the WB setting shot or at the floor... I would guess the light source just like outside.
    www.rockcanyonphotos.com

    Canon 1DM4, 300mm 2.8, 70-200mm 2.8, 200mm 1.8, 24-70mm 2.8, 85mm 1.8
  • gdaddygdaddy Registered Users Posts: 26 Big grins
    edited September 8, 2008
    I guess if I were a real good pro I could make manual focus and 1/60 work?!? but at that shutter speed I don't know how you would stop the action. I really like to pull off 1/500 or better to stop action and that combined with an 8fps burst just leaves WB all over the place (pink, yellow, perfect). Sounds like others have used expo disk and had it work.... certainly worth a shot. doing the conversion in RAW has never been a big deal for me, but JohnG is right... if you can save the time of not doing it then that is always going to be better....

    QUESTION FOR JOHNG: I haven't used my ExpoDisc since I converted to RAW a few years ago. With ExpoDisc in a gym... would you point it at the lights to get the WB setting shot or at the floor... I would guess the light source just like outside.

    Hi rockcnyonphotos, Thanks for your reply. In regard to your opening sentence. The reference to 1/60th second or slower and on manual focus was about setting the custom white balance, not shooting any photos.
    Doing it that way gives a shutter speed slow enough to last through the overhead lights cycling, etc...It was ment for setting CWB. Sorry if I worded something wrong. I would set the wb from out on the court floor pointed toward the light source. Thank you and everyone for their input so far on this subject. harold
  • johngjohng Registered Users Posts: 1,658 Major grins
    edited September 8, 2008
    gdaddy is correct on both points.
  • bramdmbramdm Registered Users Posts: 3 Beginner grinner
    edited November 17, 2011
    Hi Steve and others,

    This seems an old thread, but I just read it and it seems very helpful to me. I am already in sports photography, but just as an amateur. So I have a question about the equipment. I now have a Canon 500D. Will this do as long as I have the right lens? Or do I definitely need a different body? I want to take good pictures that I can print (no posters!) and use on the internet, but then again I am not a professional. So will this Canon 500D suit me?
    What lens should I get? I can get close to the action: under the basket, on the court during practice. I was thinking 50mm 1.4 but I read that there are many AF problems with this lens. Another one I am looking at is the 85mm 1.8. That one will be helpful during games when I can not get so close. Both are primes. How about a 17-55mm with a fixed 2.8? Will that do or is the 2.8 not good enough with my camera?

    Hope you can help me out here.

    Greetings!
  • JimKarczewskiJimKarczewski Registered Users Posts: 969 Major grins
    edited November 17, 2011
    Not sure about the 500D... But I typically use a 16-35/2.8 on a 5DII for sports.. But I don't need 2.8 since I shoot with external flashes for all my games. A 24-70/2.8 is my other go to lens of choice under the basket. For the opposite side of the court, 70-200.

    I really don't know what the performance of the 500D is, unfortunately.. Hopefully someone can answer that. Also, what level are you shooting? Kids, High School, college, etc?
  • johngjohng Registered Users Posts: 1,658 Major grins
    edited November 18, 2011
    Yeah, this is a tough one. You're definitely going to have some challenges. To shoot f2.8 you need ISO 3200-6400. THat's really not an option on the 500d. The 85mm 1.8 is a fine basketball lens - but it's a bit tricky on an aps-c camera. Why? Because it only focuses accurately for about 20-25 feet. So you still need to be shooting from the corner of the baseline to make it work. BUT because of the 1.6x sensor when the action is close you can't get full bodies in frame - so you'll have a lot of partial body crops. But that's really the best option for you. A 50mm lens really is very limited in it's usefulness for basketball - good for under the basket but not much else.. And remember, you shouldn't be shooting from inside the key on the baseline anyway. Wide angle can be a very nice change-up for sure. But for you, the 85 1.8 will probably be the most useful.
  • bramdmbramdm Registered Users Posts: 3 Beginner grinner
    edited November 18, 2011
    Thanks for the quick replies! The level I mostly shoot is high school. Also I shoot photos at basketballcamps. I can always go sideline close or even on the court during practices.

    Why is it that I can not shoot at ISO 3200-6400 when the 500d can go up to 12800? Will there be too much noise? I read that the noiselevel on this camera is pretty good, so not too much noise when shooting at high ISO. Am I misunderstanding things here?

    The 85mm 1.8 I will most likely buy soon. It will help me cover more action when I stay on the sideline during games. So what wide angle lens should I be looking at (baseline action, up close action when I am on the court and want full body photos)?

    I have the 430 ex II flash to mount to the body.

    Thanks for the help guys!
  • johngjohng Registered Users Posts: 1,658 Major grins
    edited November 18, 2011
    You'll have to take some test shots and see if you're happy with iso 3200-6400 performance of your camera. NOW, if you are happy or if you intend to use the flash, skip the 85mm - it's too limiting. Go directly to 70-200 2.8. That's a MUCH more versatile lens for shooting basketball (I've used both - started with the 85 but exclusively use the 70-200 now).
  • adbsgicomadbsgicom Registered Users Posts: 3,615 Major grins
    edited November 18, 2011
    You mean you have the 50D, not 500D. 500D is the Rebel XTi (max ISO 3200) and 50D has the max ISO of 12800. Not sure where really usable caps out on the 50D, but yeah, definitely higher than the XTi....
    - Andrew

    Who is wise? He who learns from everyone.
    My SmugMug Site
  • JimKarczewskiJimKarczewski Registered Users Posts: 969 Major grins
    edited November 18, 2011
    You might want to consider a cheap lighting setup... You could easily put one together for under $350US that would work really well for basketball. While I am currently switching over to use 100% pocketwizards, this was my setup last year for basketball and worked just fine:

    2 - Canon 540EZ flashes (approximately $60-80 used) - I use these because they are CHEAP and have the same power as a 580EXII for 1/10th the price. Problem is finding them sometimes for a good price. Just bought my last one for $59 and the local camera store had one used for $159, quite the difference vs. online!
    3 - Cheap transcievers, I used the GadgetInfinity.com Cactus V5's. I think they are $70/pair or $35/ea. So you'll need 3, for $105US.
    2 - Superclamps or equivalent - $50US ( I use the calumet versions which are cheaper than the Manfrotto)

    My total investment to light one baseline, approximately $315US

    Results:
    1184525951_EBj7a-S.jpg

    1192090938_GGurV-S.jpg

    This is one flash, each side set to 1/4 power. With good rechargeable batteries no problems with recycle time (then again, I'm shooting with a 5DII so I can't go overboard anyway at 3.9fps!) Later in the year I switched to 2 flashes each side at 1/8 power, just because I had the equipment.

    Just a thought. :)
  • jheftijhefti Registered Users Posts: 734 Major grins
    edited November 18, 2011
    bramdm wrote: »

    Why is it that I can not shoot at ISO 3200-6400 when the 500d can go up to 12800? Will there be too much noise? I read that the noiselevel on this camera is pretty good, so not too much noise when shooting at high ISO. Am I misunderstanding things here?

    Thanks for the help guys!

    This sounding like a 50D, not a 500D. I have a 50D and can't get much usable at ISO 3200 or higher, even with really good de-noising. Of course, what is and is not usable is subjective. For badly lit gyms and fields (I am shooting two NCAA round 3 games today on a field with really poor lighting) I almost always resort to my 5DII as my main camera, alongside a 1D4. The former has the best low light qualities. A lot of other shooters at this field do the same. (I've never seen so many 5D2s at a sports event!)

    I guess I would err on the side of a less-than-ideal lens (vis-a-vis zoom and focal length) and go for position. Find a place where you can get good shots, albeit not of the entire court, and produce a smaller set of much better shots. If there is anything more discouraging to your customer base than a small collection of bad shots, it's a large collection of bad shots!
  • MDalbyMDalby Registered Users Posts: 697 Major grins
    edited November 18, 2011
    You might want to consider a cheap lighting setup... You could easily put one together for under $350US that would work really well for basketball. While I am currently switching over to use 100% pocketwizards, this was my setup last year for basketball and worked just fine:

    2 - Canon 540EZ flashes (approximately $60-80 used) - I use these because they are CHEAP and have the same power as a 580EXII for 1/10th the price. Problem is finding them sometimes for a good price. Just bought my last one for $59 and the local camera store had one used for $159, quite the difference vs. online!
    3 - Cheap transcievers, I used the GadgetInfinity.com Cactus V5's. I think they are $70/pair or $35/ea. So you'll need 3, for $105US.
    2 - Superclamps or equivalent - $50US ( I use the calumet versions which are cheaper than the Manfrotto)

    My total investment to light one baseline, approximately $315US

    Results:
    1184525951_EBj7a-S.jpg

    1192090938_GGurV-S.jpg

    This is one flash, each side set to 1/4 power. With good rechargeable batteries no problems with recycle time (then again, I'm shooting with a 5DII so I can't go overboard anyway at 3.9fps!) Later in the year I switched to 2 flashes each side at 1/8 power, just because I had the equipment.

    Just a thought. :)


    Jim,

    Did you have all 4 flashes on the end of the gym that you were shooting on or did you spread the flashes over both ends of the court? I would like to cut my flash power in half too. Currently I just have the flashes on stands like you recommended and move the stands at the half.
    Nikon D4, 400 2.8 AF-I, 70-200mm 2.8 VR II, 24-70 2.8
    CBS Sports MaxPreps Shooter
    http://DalbyPhoto.com
  • JimKarczewskiJimKarczewski Registered Users Posts: 969 Major grins
    edited November 19, 2011
    MDalby wrote: »
    Jim,

    Did you have all 4 flashes on the end of the gym that you were shooting on or did you spread the flashes over both ends of the court? I would like to cut my flash power in half too. Currently I just have the flashes on stands like you recommended and move the stands at the half.

    I was shooting at Valparaiso University tonight and I started on having 2 lights on my side, 2 on the other, but before they started, I switched and put all 4 of my lights on the same side. 2 on left of me, 2 on right, all of them set to 1/4 power. I did this because I realized my PocketWizard receiver doesn't work beyond about 10ft. Ugh. So I put a splitter on one side and used one PW for 2 lights. I don't think the 4 lights (one in each corner) would had done much to be honest. From what I did try of shooting the other side of the court, the focus of my 5DII sucked on the far court. Close it was fine.. Far.. Horrid.

    So, in the gym itself without lights it was 1/320@2.8, ISO 3200. With the lights I was shooting 1/200 @ 4, ISO640. Quite the difference in noise too.. I love how much better lit basketball pictures look vs gym lights!

    I don't have anything on my SmugMug site yet, but the paper has already posted the article online so for now I'll have to use the smaller images until I get my laptop dumped to my server, which may not be until tomorrow.

    jpeg

    jpeg

    jpeg

    This is my friends shot with his D300 I believe? No flash, same location, different newspaper..

    4ec7332cd332e.image.jpg

    4ec7332c98bfb.image.jpg
  • bramdmbramdm Registered Users Posts: 3 Beginner grinner
    edited November 20, 2011
    Thanks a lot everyone for all this info. This will most certainly help me with my photography.

    I have the 500D. It's 'normal' setup has ISO up to 3200. But in the settings you can change this so you get the possibility to go to 6400 and 12800. I did not know at first, but I found out by reading on the internet.

    I bought the Canon 85mm 1.8 today. Looks really good. Waiting for tomorrow when I will give it a first try at a badminton practice. Later this week I will use it at basketball practice.

    Like I said before, I am still looking for a wide angle lens that I can use to photograph full body when I am on the baseline. How do you guys like this one (I am not professional, so this lens at around €620 is a good amount of money for me): http://photo.net/equipment/tokina/11-16/
  • rainbowrainbow Registered Users Posts: 2,765 Major grins
    edited November 21, 2011
    bramdm wrote: »
    Thanks a lot everyone for all this info. This will most certainly help me with my photography.

    I have the 500D. It's 'normal' setup has ISO up to 3200. But in the settings you can change this so you get the possibility to go to 6400 and 12800. I did not know at first, but I found out by reading on the internet.

    I bought the Canon 85mm 1.8 today. Looks really good. Waiting for tomorrow when I will give it a first try at a badminton practice. Later this week I will use it at basketball practice.

    Like I said before, I am still looking for a wide angle lens that I can use to photograph full body when I am on the baseline. How do you guys like this one (I am not professional, so this lens at around €620 is a good amount of money for me): http://photo.net/equipment/tokina/11-16/

    16 mm on the long end is very short. If you have the 18-55, put it at 18 where you want to be and see if the players are big enough in the frame. Can also consider a wide angle prime lens.
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