What do you do with a die hard

GraphyFotoz · September 22, 2005

I have a buddy that's 67yrs old and used to be big into 35mm.
He worked for Argusy<sp> magazine and did some photo journalism back during the war in San Salvador.
Also did some photos for a greeting card company.

He is animate that ANYONE can take a photo with a Digital and they are just toys!
All we do is :argue about it. I TRY to tell him that many WELL KNOWN "PROFESSIONALS" use digital and He tries to tell me that they really don't know photography then!
He says anyone who takes pictures and hasta "play" with a computer to view them and process them isn't a REAL photographer!
MAN this guy...... :splat :bash Just can't get it threw his "behind the times" thick head. He has little or no use for technology. Talking about the advantages of Computers and Digital with him is just fusterating!

What's everyones take on this?

rahmonster · September 22, 2005

Welllllllll.....I see where he is coming from. I love using digital, but still have a great passion for working in the darkroom. It's a personal thing for me I guess. I will always do all my serious art in the darkroom. I guess it's the time I put in to each and every print I make and each film I process and the excitement in the waiting (and the utter disappointment when you know had good shots but you forgot to heat up your chemical and the developing didn't work right

) that makes it feel more like an art to me than uploading them.

Digital is just the new evolution, and there will always be those who resist change. And really at the end of the day, it isn't the camerea so much as the person behind it. It's your unique eye which makes you the artist...Not really the medium you choose to express it in. If you were taking slides or glass plates would you be any less of an artist? IMO no. It's just a new medium.

dragon300zx · September 22, 2005

Let him beleive what he wants. Just don't talk with him about it. If you don't change with the times, you don't have what it takes to stay in an industry. From the sounds of it he is a good photographer but he either isn't in the field anymore, or isn't super active in it.

Some people refuse to stay current with life. It's sad that they get ran over or left behind by life. But not much you can do about it. Just make sure you don't end up with treadmarks on your back as well.

wholenewlight · September 22, 2005

My 90+ year old grandmother won't replace her old black & white TV with a color one - she thinks it's a fad and she wants to wait for the manufacturers to "perfect the whole process".

Some people have a hard time with any change. As film and processing get prohibitively expensive as an increasingly niche technology, maybe he'll come around.

PossumCorner · September 27, 2005

A few thoughts - no conclusions but.
He is lucky to have a buddy. So are you. Being buddies is more important that forcing your views on one another.

He is lucky to have "come up" through film to learn his craft. So am I. I am 65. I am luckier still that I'll never have to spend hours in a darkroom again.
Some people starting straight-off with digital are lucky they never had to use a darkroom, cos not everyone has the patience (or the room for a proper set-up). And that the right people got on my case before I got calcified thinking re film/digital and computer technology.

He's not "thick headed" he is afraid of change. Needs to justify his fear of the technology by putting it down. No blame, just how it is with so many people.
I don't think you can "talk sense" to a closed mind.

If you want to get him involved, scan some of his old negatives and show him what Photoshop can do with them. Lend him an unwanted/borrowed P&S digital camera and ask him to "help you" with a few shots at a sports event or the like.

I've used the word luck a lot here because that's often all there is between the "there but for the grace of God go I" situations.

ScottMcLeod · September 27, 2005

GraphyFotoz wrote:

I have a buddy that's 67yrs old and used to be big into 35mm.
He worked for Argusy<sp> magazine and did some photo journalism back during the war in San Salvador.
Also did some photos for a greeting card company.

He is animate that ANYONE can take a photo with a Digital and they are just toys!
All we do is :argue about it. I TRY to tell him that many WELL KNOWN "PROFESSIONALS" use digital and He tries to tell me that they really don't know photography then!
He says anyone who takes pictures and hasta "play" with a computer to view them and process them isn't a REAL photographer!
MAN this guy...... :splat :bash Just can't get it threw his "behind the times" thick head. He has little or no use for technology. Talking about the advantages of Computers and Digital with him is just fusterating!

What's everyones take on this?

Digital is 10% quality, 90% convenience.

They say you can get ~22mp out of a 35mm film frame, which costs you a grand total of 10$ for the roll, another 7-8 for developping, and some for printing.

The reality is these days, people care about convenience. He's right. Film is better, but this world is a world that runs to the second, and every efficiency-increasing trick counts.

ginger_55 · September 27, 2005

I agree w Possum up to the point of even discussing this thing with him anymore.

Some people live in blue states, some people live in red, some people...........

Then again there is the AA saying, Change what you can, etc....the wisdom to know the difference.

no, I don't belong to AA, but the saying applies all over.

g

ScottMcLeod · September 27, 2005

ginger_55 wrote:

I agree w Possum up to the point of even discussing this thing with him anymore.

Some people live in blue states, some people live in red, some people...........

Then again there is the AA saying, Change what you can, etc....the wisdom to know the difference.

no, I don't belong to AA, but the saying applies all over.

g

I think we should all be part of PA...

Hi, My name is Scott, and i'm addicted to photography... *small group applause*

DJ-S1 · September 27, 2005

If you want to argue with him, then tell him you hope he never dodged or burned or used any other developing "tricks" on his photos because that was "cheating" and "anyone could have done that".

But I would just let it lie, and don't worry about it. To each his/her own.

ziggy53 · September 27, 2005

There is no right or wrong in photography. There are differences, to be sure, between film and digital, large format versus small, fixed lenses and interchangeable lenses, etc. These are all perfectly acceptable methods of producing an image.

It is the end product that defines a photograph. It is the image, produced by some optical method, and preserved/presented by some other method, that makes an instant in time available to a larger audience.

Trying to change the mind of someone fixated upon a certain method doesn't often work, because that method worked for them in the past. That doesn't make them a bad person.

If this is truly a friend, you must accept them for what they are. If you know another truth, present it as proof. Show them what can be accomplished. Don't expect them to understand immediately, but allow them an opportunity to change slowly, gradually.

Change and unknown are scary things for many people, but things can change and things can be known.

Have faith in yourself and confidence in your craft. If this person can ever accept digital photography, it may be because of you and others, showing by example. If they never accept digital photography, you can still accept them as an individual.

Acceptance is the key. Patience is the means. Time is the opportunity.

ziggy53

DavidTO · September 27, 2005

Just find common ground in your love for photography.

pathfinder · September 28, 2005

As someone who had a B&W and a color darkroom 25 years ago, I can say that prints from that era from 35mm, don't even come close to prints from a 10D, let alone a 20D or a 1DsMKII. Not even close in sharpness, or grain, or clarity. Now 2 1/4 film will compare, but not 35mm. But don't argue with your friend, just let him see your images. He's smart, he'll eventually figure it out.
The problem is that there is a large, broad area of knowledge required to do really good work in digital Photography beyond simply shooting an image with a camera. In the past photojournalists simply dropped off the undeveloped film and the processing, cropping, printing were all carried out by someone else - usually not the shooter himself - so they were not aware of the processing steps necessary. In digital we can do all this ourselves - this is an advantage if you like the control and the final result, and a huge burden if you do not understand computers, photoshop, color theory, digital sensors, etc, etc.
Some folks will always shoot film.

ltdesignphotovideo · September 28, 2005

I do agree that film is better than digital in regards to the darkroom technique. When I first started in photography only a mere 3 years ago, I spent the first year in a darkroom. Where I was living allowed for film because of the availability of developing studios, whether in a university darkroom or through a pro studio.

When I moved to Podunk, (some call it Edenton, NC) I realized that I couldn't shoot film anymore due to the lack of studios and I can't exactly set up a dark room in my apartment. I fought tooth and nail against digital but I came to find that the speed and convenience of digital was much more my thing for commercial photography and sports photography which is what I prodominently do nowadays.

I do still use film when I go on long hiking trips mainly because of the battery life. I carry the digital as a back up on those trips. I miss the darkroom stuff because there was a certain finess to developing and there was almost no end to what you could do and no size limits so long as you could carry it all to the darkroom. It takes skill to develop well and it posed a very cool and fun challenge in learning the raw techniques of photography.

GREAPER · September 28, 2005

:deadhorse

You think film is better, more power to ya.

You think digital is better, more power to ya.

What do you do with a die hard

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