580EX II Speedlite Question.

scotthofferphotography · December 14, 2011

Can I fire the Canon Speedlite 580EXii flash wirelessly without any type of aftermarket trigger using the optical sensor on the flash from my canon T2i? or does it have to be fired via a trigger like a pocket wizard.

If it can be fired from the popup flash on the canon t2i, can you tell me how to set up the camera and the flash so this will work without an aftermarket trigger?

ziggy53 · December 14, 2011

There is no "wireless commander" capability on the T2i, like there is on the 7D and 60D.

Please detail a little more about what you wish to accomplish.

Do you already have the 580EX II or are you looking for flash recommendations?

Do you need a simple manual trigger or full E-TTL on the remote flash?

aj986s · December 14, 2011

Canon does offer the ST-E2, which I believe will work on any Canon camera, and remotely to the 580EX II. But it operates via an infrared signal, so requires some line-of-sight positioning.

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Canon-Speedlite-Transmitter-ST-E2-Review.aspx

scotthofferphotography · December 14, 2011

I have the 580exii and the T2i, I also have a cheap Jianisi PT-04TM trigger that works with the two, but I have to adjust the flash setting manually. I was wondering if I could get rid of the trigger and use it with just the camera and flash?

I know some cameras will trigger some flashes with the popup flash, will the t2i do this?

scotthofferphotography · December 14, 2011

Btw, while asking, do they make an ac adapter for the speedlite? so that you can just leave it plugged up for cheap lighting in a small studio and not use batteries? I know they make all these external kits that power it by batteries, does anyone make one that plugs straight into the wall?

Dan7312 · December 14, 2011

What you are saying is that you want to fire the flash remotely but have the flash automatically set via eTTL, like it is when you use the flash on the camera, right?

The wireless commander that ziggy mentioned and the T2i does not have is what is needed to be able to use the flash on the camera to remotely fire the 580EXII. So you will not be able to do that with just the camera.

There are other options. You can get another 580EX and use it as a master flash on your camera.

The ST-E2 that aj986 mentioned is another option. This costs less than a 580ex, but the 580ex is easier to aim and has more light output for controlling the remote flash

The Pocketwizard mini/flex is another option and it is radio based. If you do get the pocketwizard you should at least consider getting the AC-3 zone controller too.

The radio trigger you have, as you have found, will fire the remote flash but it will not set the output level like the Pocketwizard does.

Depending on how you need to set things up you can also use a long TTL flash cable too. See http://ocfgear.com for a source. This is much less expensive than radio triggers or another flash, but you will have to deal a cable between the camera and the flash.

scotthofferphotography wrote: »

I have the 580exii and the T2i, I also have a cheap Jianisi PT-04TM trigger that works with the two, but I have to adjust the flash setting manually. I was wondering if I could get rid of the trigger and use it with just the camera and flash?

I know some cameras will trigger some flashes with the popup flash, will the t2i do this?

scotthofferphotography · December 14, 2011

Dan7312 wrote: »

What you are saying is that you want to fire the flash remotely but have the flash automatically set via eTTL, like it is when you use the flash on the camera, right?

The wireless commander that ziggy mentioned and the T2i does not have is what is needed to be able to use the flash on the camera to remotely fire the 580EXII. So you will not be able to do that with just the camera.

There are other options. You can get another 580EX and use it as a master flash on your camera.

The ST-E2 that aj986 mentioned is another option. This costs less than a 580ex, but the 580ex is easier to aim and has more light output for controlling the remote flash

The Pocketwizard mini/flex is another option and it is radio based. If you do get the pocketwizard you should at least consider getting the AC-3 zone controller too.

The radio trigger you have, as you have found, will fire the remote flash but it will not set the output level like the Pocketwizard does.

Depending on how you need to set things up you can also use a long TTL flash cable too. See http://ocfgear.com for a source. This is much less expensive than radio triggers or another flash, but you will have to deal a cable between the camera and the flash.

Thanks for that explanation. The cord would be a decent option for me right now because of cost. Is there any way to make the flash ac powered? rather than run off batteries?

ziggy53 · December 14, 2011

In addition to Dan's response, the Sigma DG Super flashes will also act as a commander flash for either the Canon flashes (like a Canon 430EX, 580EX or 580EX II) or another Sigma DG Super flash.

I have 4 - Sigma DG Super flashes and 1 - Canon 580 EX flash, and I will mix them together in use. The user interface is different on the Sigma flashes, versus a Canon flash, and the build quality is not up to Canon standards, but not bad either. Otherwise the Sigma flashes are most of the functionality at about half the cost.

The following image used 2 - Sigma flashes and 1 - 580EX on the camera. The 580EX provided some of the bounce and fill light, while the 2 - Sigma flashes provided most of the key light.

I've not seen an external AC power supply for most compact flashes, including the Canon 580EX series flashes. You can use an external high-voltage power supply which will effectively triple your number of pops between battery changes.

I do have a bunch of old Sunpak 611 handle-bracket flashes and 1 - AC cord that works with them. I have used that flash for a background light on AC power. (Don't assume that you can directly trigger these old flashes from the camera. The old flashes often have extremely high trigger voltage that can fry modern digital cameras. I use a radio master/slave set to trigger them with no problems.)

ziggy53 · December 14, 2011

I moved this to the Accessories forum. Carry on.

Dan7312 · December 14, 2011

You could consider rechargable batteries. You would replace them in the 580ex when the recycle time got too long and recharge them. That way you can always be using fresh batteries without have to throw away batteries with some life left in them. The Maha C801D is a good choice if you go this route because it has a separate charging circuit for each of the 8 batteries it holds.

scotthofferphotography wrote: »

Thanks for that explanation. The cord would be a decent option for me right now because of cost. Is there any way to make the flash ac powered? rather than run off batteries?

scotthofferphotography · December 14, 2011

Thanks for the help guys. I was thinking, and wondering.. if the flash uses a cord to connect to those battery packs.. and you just bought a cord off ebay for one of those battery packs for say 20.00, would it be possibly to cut the end off the battery pack side of the cord, and then get an ac power supply, reduce the power to 4 1.5volt battery power ( say 6 volts ) or whatever voltage the flash actually runs off of.. and then have a really fast recycle rate that would be forever since it was plugged in and nobody actually produces this?

I am just thinking cheap as possibly for a really small homemade studio I have that I use a speedlight to overexpose my white background with. But batteries and recharge times are really aggrivating and I dont have enough cash to upgrade to a continuous lighting system.

Here is a picture of my little garage homemade studio..

and here is an image taken using those lights (the homemade softbox and flash)

Dan7312 · December 14, 2011

There are some DIY projects for making AC adaptors for speedlights. Search for something like 580EX AC. You will of course void any warrenty, may damage the speedlight. Also even if the speedlight doesn't have any batteries in it, once you open it up that are parts you might touch that can hurt you, even seriously hurt you.

Keep in mind that the speedlight itself has a duty cycle. Depending on how much flash output it is generating, you can end damaging the flash. I think the 580EXII has some circuitry that shuts down the speedlight when it gets too warm, but I have seen a 580EX that was melted into oblivion by cycling it to quickly and to often.

It sounds like you are trying to get more milage out of your existing flash and keep costs down. However, except for cost, something else you might consider is coventional studio flashes. Actually in terms of total power output they are price competative with speedlights because you need a lot of speedlight to produce the output of a studio strobe. Just something else to think about.

scotthofferphotography wrote: »

Thanks for the help guys. I was thinking, and wondering.. if the flash uses a cord to connect to those battery packs.. and you just bought a cord off ebay for one of those battery packs for say 20.00, would it be possibly to cut the end off the battery pack side of the cord, and then get an ac power supply, reduce the power to 4 1.5volt battery power ( say 6 volts ) or whatever voltage the flash actually runs off of.. and then have a really fast recycle rate that would be forever since it was plugged in and nobody actually produces this?

I am just thinking cheap as possibly for a really small homemade studio I have that I use a speedlight to overexpose my white background with. But batteries and recharge times are really aggrivating and I dont have enough cash to upgrade to a continuous lighting system.

Here is a picture of my little garage homemade studio..

and here is an image taken using those lights (the homemade softbox and flash)

scotthofferphotography · December 14, 2011

Thanks Dan. I wouldnt need to open the speedlight would I just to plug in something like this?

$(KGrHqMOKj8E0t+z5dOWBNcKZ(R!Ew~~_35.JPG

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Connect-Cord-F-iShoot-Flash-Power-Pack-Canon-580EX-/250783158891?pt=Camera_Flash_Accessories&hash=item3a63d7526b

and just cut the end off and connected it to whatever power consumption the 580 actually took. I know what your talking about on getting injured though. The capacitors in the flash are mean. A diposable camera can be used as a stun gun. Had a friend make one once and trick me. I was not impressed.

Dan7312 · December 14, 2011

Ouch, sounds like it hurt.

I've never seen an actual DIY AC adaper for a speedlight, just heard of them. Another thing to keep in mind is how much current the adapter can provide. One the flash fires, the speedlight will pretty much look like a short circuit until the capacitors are charged up. That could (don't know though) fry the adapter. Also it may turn out if the adapter can't provide enough current you may find the recycling times longer than with even partially used up batteries.

scotthofferphotography wrote: »

Thanks Dan. I wouldnt need to open the speedlight would I just to plug in something like this?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Connect-Cord-F-iShoot-Flash-Power-Pack-Canon-580EX-/250783158891?pt=Camera_Flash_Accessories&hash=item3a63d7526b

and just cut the end off and connected it to whatever power consumption the 580 actually took. I know what your talking about on getting injured though. The capacitors in the flash are mean. A diposable camera can be used as a stun gun. Had a friend make one once and trick me. I was not impressed.

scotthofferphotography · December 14, 2011

That could be why they dont make one then huh? I guess I could get one of those ebay battery packs for it, then get about a dozen recharageble batteries and do it that way. May be cheaper. Do you know if there is a way to keep the flash from auto shutting off when not in use? Seems like its on a timer or something and shuts off after a few minutes.

ziggy53 · December 14, 2011

ziggy53 wrote: »

... I've not seen an external AC power supply for most compact flashes, including the Canon 580EX series flashes. You can use an external high-voltage power supply which will effectively triple your number of pops between battery changes. ...

scotthofferphotography wrote: »

Thanks for the help guys. I was thinking, and wondering.. if the flash uses a cord to connect to those battery packs.. and you just bought a cord off ebay for one of those battery packs for say 20.00, would it be possibly to cut the end off the battery pack side of the cord, and then get an ac power supply, reduce the power to 4 1.5volt battery power ( say 6 volts ) or whatever voltage the flash actually runs off of.. and then have a really fast recycle rate that would be forever since it was plugged in and nobody actually produces this?

...

Like I said, the external power supplies that Canon makes are "high-voltage" units. They have 8 batteries and a changing circuit in the external supply, to lift the voltage into the hundreds of volts before it gets to the flash. You still need the batteries in the flash to supply power to the internal circuits of the flash.

It is possible to use an external high-amperage DC power supply, but it is not recommended by the manufacturer. Yes, there are some DIY AC to DC power supplies and no, I would not recommend them to anyone.

Like I said before, "I do have a bunch of old Sunpak 611 handle-bracket flashes and 1 - AC cord that works with them. I have used that flash for a background light on AC power. (Don't assume that you can directly trigger these old flashes from the camera. The old flashes often have extremely high trigger voltage that can fry modern digital cameras. I use a radio master/slave set to trigger them with no problems.)"

If you want to purchase some fairly cheap, manual capable flashes, that can be AC powered, the Sunpak 611 flashes may work but do not attach them directly to your camera or via a cable extension. You will do damage to your camera. Use a cheap radio transmitter/slave set instead.

ziggy53 · December 14, 2011

scotthofferphotography wrote: »

That could be why they dont make one then huh? I guess I could get one of those ebay battery packs for it, then get about a dozen recharageble batteries and do it that way. May be cheaper. Do you know if there is a way to keep the flash from auto shutting off when not in use? Seems like its on a timer or something and shuts off after a few minutes.

Cheaper is not always best. If you are talking about the external power supplies like this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/External-Flash-Power-Battery-Pack-Canon-580EX-II-/260792898171?pt=Camera_Flash_Accessories&hash=item3cb877d27b#ht_4183wt_1152

... I have to caution that many people are having problems with it, as reported in the Amazon reviews for the same item:

http://www.amazon.com/Neewer-Professional-Battery-Replacement-Flashes/product-reviews/B0044QL8I4/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1

scotthofferphotography · December 14, 2011

I think I am going to buy that cord above since you can see how far my flash is from where I shoot.

I think that and some rechargeable batteries is my best bet. You guys are great. .Thanks for keeping me from doing somthing dumb.

NeilL · December 14, 2011

The cord is the most efficient option for your layout, in terms of getting on with your work. But then you sacrifice your camera flash. There are other configurations using radio triggers and/or optical slaves, options which are interesting in their own right but might not be any advantage to you with your setup. I got a very long ETTL cord from Paramount, top quality!

http://www.paramountcords.com/

Have you set up your other lights with light sensors to fire with an optical trigger? Your 580EXII could then take care of syncing all your lights.

One of the advantages of strobes is that they can be plugged into the wall! But then there's stuff like this:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/502464-REG/Quantum_Instruments_Turbo_SC_Battery_Pack.html

Neil

scotthofferphotography · December 14, 2011

Thanks for the link neil. I am going with 33 feet long.

RacinRandy · December 19, 2011

scotthofferphotography wrote: »

Do you know if there is a way to keep the flash from auto shutting off when not in use? Seems like its on a timer or something and shuts off after a few minutes.

Look in your manual at the list of c/fn functions. There is a setting in there to lengthen or shut off the auto off on the 580exii.

scotthofferphotography · December 21, 2011

Thanks I found it Randy. F1-01

580EX II Speedlite Question.

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