Do you use umbrellas for for group photos during weddings?

haring · December 17, 2010

Do you use umbrellas for for group photos during weddings? Do you have a before (without the umbrella setup) and after (with umbrella) shot so we can see the difference?

Blurmore · December 17, 2010

Family picture photographed with Alien Bee in a brolly box left and on camera flash bounced right with a Gary Fong Whale Tail.

Similar family photograph with Sunpak 622 diffusion head key left (like a big stofen omni-bounce) and a 430ex with Presslite vertex 50/50 ceiling bounced right as fill.

Different? Yes. Better? eh....

studio1972 · December 17, 2010

From my own experience and also from doing video at weddings (where other photographers were doing the photos) I'd say:

1. I've never seen other photographer do this except on one occasion indoors
2. I've done it, although it can be tricky outside due to wind. Also getting the umbrella close enough so that the flash has a significant effect can be tricky.
3. Recently got a Lastolite ezybox which seems to be better suited for this.

Most photographer just use on camera flash TBH, and even those that use off camera flash for portraits tend not to for the groups. Like I say, I've tried it, but it is a hassle (especially if you're on your own) so I tend to reserve it for portraits etc now.

tenoverthenose · December 17, 2010

In a word, yes. It's a hassle, but if this was easy anybody could do it.

On umbrella with a speedlight (or two) will work wonders on portraits. The ezybox is good, but not really meant for group shots - its too small and eats too much light.

Moogle Pepper · December 17, 2010

I didn't use it this year, but, lesson learned. Will be using it next year. I just need to get a bag to fit the stand and umbrella for easy portability.

studio1972 · December 17, 2010

tenoverthenose wrote: »

In a word, yes. It's a hassle, but if this was easy anybody could do it.

On umbrella with a speedlight (or two) will work wonders on portraits. The ezybox is good, but not really meant for group shots - its too small and eats too much light.

Haven't worked out the maths or performed any proper experiments, but I wouldn't have thought that an ezybox would eat more light than a shoot through umbrella?

heatherfeather · December 17, 2010

Yes, every time. I use a two umbrella set up with 3 flashes. (2 on one side and one on the other set at a 1/2 ratio). I like light. I even do it outdoors all the time, though on occasion I just put a bbcard on the weak side since I only bring one assistant to hold lightstands. It works VERY well, and makes it possible to expose the sky properly in the same image as a big group photo.

tenoverthenose · December 17, 2010

studio1972 wrote: »

Haven't worked out the maths or performed any proper experiments, but I wouldn't have thought that an ezybox would eat more light than a shoot through umbrella?

Both will probably cost you a little over a stop. The main problem is their size. Because the ezybox is so much smaller, in order to get the same coverage you need to move it further back from your subject than an umbrella, thus making it less effective. I really like the ezybox for quick headshots, or maybe two people (especially indoors).

My general plan for group portraits is to use a 45" or 60" bounced umbrella indoors and a 30" softbox outdoors (I will use an umbrella outdoors if I have an assistant and no wind). I try to keep it on a stand high enough to put a shadow under their chins, low enough to keep light in their eyes.

Bsimon · December 17, 2010

One umbrella camera right with SB900 at 1/4 or 1/8 power

mmmatt · December 17, 2010

I use an umbrella almost all the time for group shots these days. Simple to set up if you are shooting a lot of shots in the same location. Indoor/outdoor doesn't matter to me. When shooting groups outdoors I usually have about 50 potential assistants to hold the stand on a windy day. If it is too windy for that then I probably won't want to shoot outside anyways. I also carry a ThinkTank wideload with a couple of lenses in it that makes a great sandbag for my lightstand, or my full camera case if it is with me. I buy cheap umbrellas because they get smashed pretty regularly though, so it isn't a perfect science!. I far prefer the lightspread and efficiency of silver lined non-shoot through umbrellas. I have a shoot-through I am using now and I don't like it a bit. I have a gold lined umbrella that I love to use in the late day sun of fall. However I do it though, I try to keep a lot of ambient in the mix so that it feels natural.

umbrella to the right indoors with heavy backlighting

umbrella to the left outdoors under an overhang (from a bat mitzvah actually)

Matt

haring · December 17, 2010

Blurmore wrote: »

Family picture photographed with Alien Bee in a brolly box left and on camera flash bounced right with a Gary Fong Whale Tail.

Similar family photograph with Sunpak 622 diffusion head key left (like a big stofen omni-bounce) and a 430ex with Presslite vertex 50/50 ceiling bounced right as fill.

Different? Yes. Better? eh....

Blurmore! you ROCK!

trevorb · December 17, 2010

Matt- Really like the light in those shots.

Weisel · December 20, 2010

I use an Alien Bee 800 with shoot through umbrella set slightly to the side of my shooting location, and set up about 7-8' high. That's my only light here. Not saying I'm doing anything great, but I'm just tossing in some of my work, for conversation.
Mike Colon, a big hitter in California just shoots with his speedlight, mainly. He doesn't advise making a big ordeal of "formals". He just shoots them as informally as possible, using as little lighting as possible. Last I heard, his starting price was $20,000 for basic wedding coverage. He must be doing something right.
Me, I use an umbrella, and I would use two of them if I had the money to put into another AB800. My dream though is to do exactly what Mike Colon does. Quick and easy, informal formals. I think I need to really improve my overall wedding photography before I relax the formals too much though. That's just me.

a Single AB800 with shoot through umbrella. . Probably a bit too dark and shadowy, but then, they have bought tons of photos from me, and still keep ordering. This was in a fairly dark church. I probably should have decreased my shutter speed to let in more ambient. But I love my umbrella.

Agnieszka · December 21, 2010

Blurmore wrote: »

Family picture photographed with Alien Bee in a brolly box left and on camera flash bounced right with a Gary Fong Whale Tail.

Pretty, pretty. I really like it!

I rarely shoot my family photos inside, so I don't do a fancy set-up, but you guys make me wonder if I should

Nice samples!

TheCheesehead · December 21, 2010

@Blurmore definitetly like your umbrella shot better.

regionweddings · January 1, 2011

I use an Elinchrom Quadra for formal shots inside and out. It's very portable with the power of a studio strobe and real soft light. I shoot it through a small 15" soft box although I really should bring a larger one for a little softer light. I also add a reflector with this on occasion.

wedding-party-marquette-park.jpg?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=1293808482006

wedding-party-marquette-park.jpg?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=1293808482006

valparaiso_wedding38.jpg?pictureId=6890746

regionweddings · January 1, 2011

By the way, there are some really nice group shots in this thread!! Excellent job from everyone!!! Just wanted to get that in there.

lilirishangel · January 3, 2011

My wheels are turning..... Am going to have to play more

Amazing Pictures I have seen in hear..

MohamedEzz · November 6, 2011

Good job!
This is great, I just bought two umbrellas with a stand, one with a black side, and the other one is white. I've an outdoor wedding tomorrow and I'll post some photos using the umbrella when I'm back. Good job everyone!

r3t1awr3yd · November 29, 2011

I always take umbrellas to a wedding

Here's a shot with just one umbrella:

I did the same with the rest of the wedding party. I totally recommend taking and umbrella or two or three.

As people have said, the worst part is getting the umbrella to stay put while working. If you have an assistant, great. If you don't, recruit someone friendly from the gaggle of guests available.

haring · December 27, 2011

heatherfeather wrote: »

Yes, every time. I use a two umbrella set up with 3 flashes. (2 on one side and one on the other set at a 1/2 ratio). I like light. I even do it outdoors all the time, though on occasion I just put a bbcard on the weak side since I only bring one assistant to hold lightstands. It works VERY well, and makes it possible to expose the sky properly in the same image as a big group photo.

I guess the third flash is on the camera....

haring · December 27, 2011

heatherfeather wrote: »

Yes, every time. I use a two umbrella set up with 3 flashes. (2 on one side and one on the other set at a 1/2 ratio). I like light. I even do it outdoors all the time, though on occasion I just put a bbcard on the weak side since I only bring one assistant to hold lightstands. It works VERY well, and makes it possible to expose the sky properly in the same image as a big group photo.

mmmatt wrote: »

I use an umbrella almost all the time for group shots these days. Simple to set up if you are shooting a lot of shots in the same location. Indoor/outdoor doesn't matter to me. When shooting groups outdoors I usually have about 50 potential assistants to hold the stand on a windy day. If it is too windy for that then I probably won't want to shoot outside anyways. I also carry a ThinkTank wideload with a couple of lenses in it that makes a great sandbag for my lightstand, or my full camera case if it is with me. I buy cheap umbrellas because they get smashed pretty regularly though, so it isn't a perfect science!. I far prefer the lightspread and efficiency of silver lined non-shoot through umbrellas. I have a shoot-through I am using now and I don't like it a bit. I have a gold lined umbrella that I love to use in the late day sun of fall. However I do it though, I try to keep a lot of ambient in the mix so that it feels natural.

umbrella to the right indoors with heavy backlighting

umbrella to the left outdoors under an overhang (from a bat mitzvah actually)

Matt

Big difference! Especially in the church with the light coming from behind. Thanks for posting these!

haring · December 27, 2011

trevorb wrote: »

Matt- Really like the light in those shots.

Trevorb,

the link doesn't work!

haring · December 27, 2011

Weisel wrote: »

I use an Alien Bee 800 with shoot through umbrella set slightly to the side of my shooting location, and set up about 7-8' high. That's my only light here. Not saying I'm doing anything great, but I'm just tossing in some of my work, for conversation.
Mike Colon, a big hitter in California just shoots with his speedlight, mainly. He doesn't advise making a big ordeal of "formals". He just shoots them as informally as possible, using as little lighting as possible. Last I heard, his starting price was $20,000 for basic wedding coverage. He must be doing something right.
Me, I use an umbrella, and I would use two of them if I had the money to put into another AB800. My dream though is to do exactly what Mike Colon does. Quick and easy, informal formals. I think I need to really improve my overall wedding photography before I relax the formals too much though. That's just me.

a Single AB800 with shoot through umbrella. . Probably a bit too dark and shadowy, but then, they have bought tons of photos from me, and still keep ordering. This was in a fairly dark church. I probably should have decreased my shutter speed to let in more ambient. But I love my umbrella.

I am just worried that it takes a lot of time to set up a AB800...

Matthew Saville · December 27, 2011

haring wrote: »

I am just worried that it takes a lot of time to set up a AB800...

That's what assistants are for! It sounds like a cop-out for me to say that, I know, but at the same time I feel that the level of service (and price) that would merit you lugging an AB out to a wedding, would also allow for the hiring (and the prestige factor?) of having an assistant to do things for you.

If you're trying to bust out an AB at budget weddings where it's just you shooting solo, then yeah you might have a problem. Again, it sounds like a cop-out, but a budget client gets what it pays for; budget lighting. Unless you feel like breaking your back and hustling a ton to impress those first few clients so you can climb to a higher price bracket, I would just be happy to use hotshoe flashes. I've actually used hotshoe flashes with umbrellas quite successfully at weddings, you just need an extra stop or two of ISO and some skillful DOF management. ;-)

=Matt=

zoomer · December 27, 2011

I tried using umbrellas a few times, to much hassle and time consuming. For me the trade off was not worth it, especially if you do not have an assistant to set up and tear down.

I shot a lot of weddings using on camera flash on a bracket. The trick is to bounce it off the ceiling (i used a demb diffuser just on the front of the flash, the benefit is you get nice even light.
With the umbrellas you will be battling light falloff (people on one side are brighter than people on the other side) or shadows if you use them from competing sides (unless you get the ratios just right).
When I did use umbrellas I set it up right in the middle and above me shooting down, creates a nice even light on everyone and good light.
I use the same setup outside, either in full shade or with the sun at their back. Use bare flash straight at them, make sure it is not so strong that all the natural shading is removed from their faces.
This is for groups, for portraits of course it is completely different.

Matthew Saville · December 27, 2011

zoomer wrote: »

I tried using umbrellas a few times, to much hassle and time consuming. For me the trade off was not worth it, especially if you do not have an assistant to set up and tear down.

I shot a lot of weddings using on camera flash on a bracket. The trick is to bounce it off the ceiling (i used a demb diffuser just on the front of the flash, the benefit is you get nice even light.
With the umbrellas you will be battling light falloff (people on one side are brighter than people on the other side) or shadows if you use them from competing sides (unless you get the ratios just right).
When I did use umbrellas I set it up right in the middle and above me shooting down, creates a nice even light on everyone and good light.
I use the same setup outside, either in full shade or with the sun at their back. Use bare flash straight at them, make sure it is not so strong that all the natural shading is removed from their faces.
This is for groups, for portraits of course it is completely different.

Yeah, you lose flash power either way whether you're bouncing or shooting through an umbrella. Some churches you can get away with bouncing, but in others the ceiling is 50 feet up and it's black, so there's no bounce to be had

. Bottom line- I can set up an umbrella + light stand faster than any bridal party / family can gather themselves and be ready for the first photo. ;-)

Having said that, just as a disclaimer, I usually don't shoot with an umbrella; I only do so if it is truly necessary. (Dark church with bad ambient. Often, I just tripod 'er up and ask people to hold really still.
1/30 sec and ISO 800 / 1600 does the trick most of the time. If your exposure is great, the noise level is just fine.

=Matt=

Do you use umbrellas for for group photos during weddings?

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