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The Great Don McCullin
richardman
Registered Users Posts: 376 Major grins
I nearly jumped off my chair when I saw this image:
A lone anti-war protester confronts police in Whitehall during the Cuban Missile Crisis, London, 1962 - Copyright Don McCullin
This is my version, which is posted a few times already (sorry). 49 years apart. Wow
I wasn't aware of Don's great work until now. Well worth to check on.
A lone anti-war protester confronts police in Whitehall during the Cuban Missile Crisis, London, 1962 - Copyright Don McCullin
This is my version, which is posted a few times already (sorry). 49 years apart. Wow
I wasn't aware of Don's great work until now. Well worth to check on.
"Some People Drive, We Are Driven"
// richard <http://www.richardmanphoto.com>
richardmanphoto on Facebook and Instagram
// richard <http://www.richardmanphoto.com>
richardmanphoto on Facebook and Instagram
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Hey wait a minute... I feel a WTF coming on.......
I have to agree, honestly. That simple painting on the roadway makes the image that much more powerful.
"He not busy being born is busy dying." Bob Dylan
"The more ambiguous the photograph is, the better it is..." Leonard Freed
The bad news is, you may never get the opportunity for an iconic shot like that again...
Forward, damn the torpedoes.
// richard <http://www.richardmanphoto.com>
richardmanphoto on Facebook and Instagram
What comes to my mind when comparing the two is the police are a polite looking bunch in the first photo , your photo the police look very threatening with all the riot gear, and gives it much more impact even though the scenes are somewhat similar given the nature of the seriousness of the situations.
I hope I see that next iconic shot.
Lensmole
http://www.lensmolephotography.com/
I only offered my two cents and oposing views, because someone said, yours was better. I found many reasons why I thought that it wasn't...so, I offered some food for thought. It's not that I didn't like yours...but in contrast...sitting on the turn sign...while nice...wasn't all that much.
The feeling that I get from the original image is, "BAM," that guy doesn't look like he should be there...while in yours...the protester is what we have come to know as atypical in dress...what with the bike helmet...almost a professional...ready for action.
Educate yourself like you'll live forever and live like you'll die tomorrow.
Ed
Having said that :-), while I don't necessarily think that mine is better than Don's, I think some of the points you raised in fact are the reasons why I like mine!
First of all, I know it's an excuse as I have called it out many times myself - we don't choose the people or how they position themselves in street photos. All we can do is to position ourselves.
Anyway, in order - I like the slightly blurry police of my shot. Of course it was done that way only because I had no choice (this is 4AM, ISO 1600 already etc.) but I assert that we know what police in riot gear look like and the fuzziness adds to the drama.
Second, the separations between the protesters and the police/bobbies - well the distance between the protesters and the police were fixed - they sat where they sat - but I want that nice openness between them and the slight distortion - I crouched down to make the protester appear a bit bigger while the police looking more menacing in the background. (well, OK - there, my bias shows through :-) )
The bobbies practically look polite and more like wondering what to do now, whereas the Oakland shot the police look menacing...
As for the letter - I think "TURN" has a symbolic meaning there. Also, most people probably cannot see it, but his bag says "Public Access," which once again takes on a symbolic meaning in the context of the protest.
The only thing I couldn't help is the bicycle helmet. I don't know whether he wore them for protection but I doubt it. He wore them because he got there by bike.
// EDIT: also, the clothing makes this person more age, gender and race neutral, making the person more a "every person." (I do know the gender, race and approximate age...)
// richard <http://www.richardmanphoto.com>
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Yours indeed is strengthened by the fact that the cops, in their Star Wars body armor and helmets, are made much more menacing by being out of focus. The bike helmet? Where Ed sees a 'professional' protester, I see a bike rider. And what makes yours is the injunction to Turn, upon which th protester is sitting. Who should turn? Should the cops turn back? Should th protesters turn around and leave? Should society turn in one direction or another? I see all those questions in this excellent image.
"He not busy being born is busy dying." Bob Dylan
"The more ambiguous the photograph is, the better it is..." Leonard Freed
What go me about both is the distance between protester and p.d.
In the first, he is so close to them, and his little leg is sticking out almost childlike and it's almost like he's a nuisance to step over.
In the second, the protestor is much farther away and it has a much more "squaring off" vibe.
the first is almost almost comical with police wearing leather gloves and in your version, they don't have gloves just billy clubs and some are holding them in an intimidating way.
I find yours to be a more powerful image.
_________
Interesting BD...but, upon consideration...what is the person doing sitting on the turn sign...is he or she a protester...we have the photographer's word that he or she is...but, I was wondering if he wasn't just a photographer getting a picture...and there in lies the problem...you have to use the photographers insight in order to make believe that this is a protester and not a reporter. And, with the riot police being so far away...and the way that they are standing...they just aren't ominous or menacing...just kind of standing there nonchalantly, maybe waiting to catch a bus...or for the protesters to come to them. The picture just doesn't have any energy...and requires the viewer to forecast its procession.
How exciting would this image be if Richard had said, "this guy with a camera got off his bike and jumped right in my way while I was getting a picture of the riot police. Some people have no respect for others. And, as soon as the police took one step in his direction, he ran away."
I would have much more liked a picture with the riot police formed up and marching toward the person sitting on the turn sign...police that are much closer to the the protester and actually menacing and ominous...resisted by the passive defiance of the protester. Now, that person is in danger...now we have energy...now we have a story...one that we are expected see when looking at this image.
Well, we could go on and on about the image and what's actually going on versus what was narrated. My intention is to get viewers to take a more in-depth look at images and not to extend the circumstances in a picture, but to take it for face value.
Richard, it is a nice image...like I said before.
So, that's my two cents.
Educate yourself like you'll live forever and live like you'll die tomorrow.
Ed
First off, BD's evaluations of the two pictures are some of the best photographic critiques I've seen anywhere. Second, Rags is wrong. The reason he's wrong, Richard, is that you've got the eye and you're working at it. You may not get another iconic shot of police confronting a protester, but that's not the only kind of iconic picture possible.
One thing to watch out for is the urge to repeat an earlier success. I often find myself wandering back to the places where I've made some of my best shots, and when I realize what I'm doing I kick myself in the butt (a very difficult gymnastic feat that ought to be included in future Olympics). The future is forward, not backward.
www.FineArtSnaps.com
"He not busy being born is busy dying." Bob Dylan
"The more ambiguous the photograph is, the better it is..." Leonard Freed
Good for you
The comment was made because the last time the US had civil unrest like that was 45 yrs ago (late 60's).
There was civil unrest to a lesser degree in 1963+ due to the civil rights activities. That was when bd got the MLK shot. I wonder if bd ever got another iconic shot to match it.
Good luck
Well I don't know if "wrong" is the right characterization of my opinion. It is an opinion (subjective) and may be different.
Russ brings up and excellent point about trying to recapture an earlier shot, I've had similar experiences and have had similar disappointment.
Differing opinions and the reasons for the opinions are healthy.
Seems to me we can always second guess about a shot or have situational preferences on how it should have been; but this is an iconic shot. There is more to it than the subjects.
It symbolizes a man's (mankind's?) resistance to an overwhelming authority. The man is in focus the police bokehed in context. The context includes the word turn (pretty strong)
Was it setup; maybe that doesn't matter. Was the protestor who stood in front of the tank in Tianamin Square part of a staging. Probably yes, he deliberately walked in front of the tank. Did the image become symbolic, I would say yes.
Lastly, generally this type of photography is candid - you get what you can - when you can.
Just my opinion
Throughout the previous day, the Twitter feeds indicated that the police might show up to clear the camp (this would be the second time). At around midnight, some reports on Twitter said that lots of police cars from different areas were gathering at the Oakland Coliseum. At about 1AM, I talked to my wife (I am not a full time photog, I am a Silicon Valley geek with a wife and 2 kids, one of which is in college) and she knew I want to go up despite the risks. She was very supportive and urged me not to get arrested :-) (we have loaded up one of those "I am getting Arrested" app on my smartphone earlier).
I went to Oakland and shot the protesters and the tents, talked to people etc. Scott Olson was still in the hospital. Just a couple days prior, there was another video of a videographer getting hit by a rubber bullet by a police line without provocation. The tension was thick in the air. About 3 or 4 set of TV crew. There were half a dozen people riding on the bikes pacing back and forth to see where the police would be coming. Protesters were looking at the end of the streets to see where they might be coming.
The protest, in case you don't know, centered at the intersection of 14th and Broadway, adjacent to the Frank Ogawa Plaza where the tents were. At about 4AM, some reported that the police would be coming down from 14th Street from the west side. People got really nervous then. The protesters went into the encampment to urge people to get out. Among the people staying was a set of about 20 people in front of the Interfaith tent. They sat down and held hands, and with candlelights burning around them, they had smiles on their faces and they weren't going to move.
A line of police started to march down from the 14th street west side. I double checked that at least the north side of Broadway still looked reasonably clear. Some barricades were being put up on the east side of 14th, and another set of police was marching up from the south side of Broadway. I figured that I might still have times to get away on the north side if needed, or just hide among the TV crew - I am no hero.
Let me tell you something, there are few things more scary than having a line of police in riot gear marching toward you. A few people continued to take pictures, keeping just a couple feet away from them and walking backward. Once the police pushed the protesters away from the Plaza, they put down portable steel fence. There were at least 2 officers with rubber bullet guns. All of them were carrying batons and cable ties of course. Meanwhile, the line on the south side of Broadway positioned themselves.
Then we waited. The police let a few people in, telling them that they could not get out once they were in. A few protesters tried to engage the police, some yelling "You don't have to do this" type of messages at them. There was no profanity directed at the police as I recalled, and no one threw anything. The TV crew were going nuts. Initially I stayed as close to the TV crew as possible, thinking that may be they would not shoot the live TV first (of course they might indeed shoot the live TV first but I was hoping that they would at least use lesser force).
On 14th street where it is closer to the camp, the protesters bunched up against the temporary fence. On the south Broadway side, protesters left a wide swath of space in front the police line. Then a lone protester, a slender face young looking gentleman with a bicycle helmet walked up to about 10 to 12 feet in front of them and sat down, forming a single human shield. Fool or hero, I don't know, but he has courage, that's for sure. Lots of people photographing. I positioned myself in a distance that I felt comfortable with and chose the perspective that I thought would work and fired off a few shots.
Then it's more waiting. By then, it was relatively hopeful that the police was not going to arrest everyone so people relaxed a little bit. The police started to clear off the tents and arrested people who were still there. The protesters responded loudly. Unlike the first raid, where they allowed at least a small number of professional press people, this time they did not allow any press access to the tent area at all.
That's pretty much it then. After the police did the job, they marched off and people left, it was well after 6AM by then.
// richard <http://www.richardmanphoto.com>
richardmanphoto on Facebook and Instagram
And other then seeing that the guy sat down in front of the cops, and getting from the photo that that line of cops would be scary as hell, not an iota of what you've written was or could be conveyed in the photo. And it is, therefore, irrelevant to a viewer. The pixels is the pixels - and 'that's all she wrote.'
"He not busy being born is busy dying." Bob Dylan
"The more ambiguous the photograph is, the better it is..." Leonard Freed
Exactly, a single photograph stands by itself. Just wrote it down because I still remember most of the details :-)
// richard <http://www.richardmanphoto.com>
richardmanphoto on Facebook and Instagram