Client wants to "Modify" my Image...

paume · February 17, 2012

Ok, so I am quite aware of the law but this Interior Designer seems not to be and I just want to find a way to make her see the light. She wants to buy some of my photos for a client's office but wants to have something written(don't know what) on the photo...I said I wouldn't like any messages written on my photos and I wouldn't do it personally

To keep it brief, she says : "Well I can buy the file and have someone else write it for me..." Alleging that once a client buys an image (even a painting) the client can do as he//she pleases with it and alter it at their will...

Now I KNOW it is a matter of licensing and agreements...But she doesn't' seem to know this. I am trying to find literature on this...

Can anyone shed some light?

Art Morgan · February 17, 2012

paume wrote: »

...Alleging that once a client buys an image (even a painting) the client can do as he//she pleases with it and alter it at their will...

Yes they can. A print, painting, or a file that they legally purchased from you is their property to alter as they see fit, as long as they don't then sell copies of it, or use it commercially (without purchasing the rights to do so.)
I'd be thrilled that someone wanted to buy one of my images and then put an inspirational message on it.

paume · February 17, 2012

Not so...
I just found a legal document that states otherwise...

here is the link.
http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ40.pdf

And this is the paragraph i refer to qouted from the document:

"Moral Rights for Visual Artists
For certain one-of-a-kind visual art and numbered limited editions of 200 or fewer copies, authors are accorded rights of attribution and integrity. The right of attribution ensures that artists are correctly identified with the works of art they create and that they are not identified with works created by others. The right of integrity allows artists to protect their works against modifications and destructions that are preju- dicial to the artists’ honor or reputation. These rights may not be transferred by the author, but they may be waived in a written instrument. Transfer of the physical copy of a work of visual art or of the copyright does not affect the moral rights accorded to the author.
For works of visual art incorporated in a building, special rules apply. If the owner of a building desires to remove such a work from the building and removal is possible without destruction, the owner is required to accord the author the opportunity to make the removal him or herself. A registry is established within the Copyright Office to record informa- tion relevant to this obligation. Both owners of buildings and authors of visual art incorporated in buildings can record statements in the registry. For more information, see Visual Arts Registry, Code of Federal Regulations, section 201.25 at www.copyright.gov/title37/201/37cfr201-25.html."

Art Morgan · February 17, 2012

"...to protect their works against modifications and destructions that are prejudicial to the artists’ honor or reputation."

I was assuming your client did not want to add wording that was prejudicial to your honor or reputation.

Again, I'd be honored if someone bought my image and wanted to add an inspirational or corporate message to it. The simple answer for you is do not sell your image to your client.

Sam · February 17, 2012

Omar,

Please send your unhappy client to me! No I am not kidding. Have her give me a call.

I will help her out and you won't have to worry about how your image will be used.

Sam

Moving Pictures · February 17, 2012

I'm a slut. If someone wants to pay me to use a pic, they've got my interest. As long as we can come to a number that makes me happy, we're good.

High-ferlootin' sense of values and morals and ethics don't put no food on the table.

paume · February 17, 2012

Sam wrote: »

Omar,

Please send your unhappy client to me! No I am not kidding. Have her give me a call.

I will help her out and you won't have to worry about how your image will be used.

Sam

Hi Sam:

I have to say, i don't find your condescending tone useful

My question was addressed as a matter to understand a Specific legal matter... Mostly because the person claims that she can and will use any artist's work (photo, paint or sculpture ) and alter it at her will with or without the artist's consent.

Unfortunately is not what the Law states and I have discovered that during the process...which was what I wanted to clarify mainly.

Whether I was willing to sell my work for that purpose was not the question...

p.s. I was expecting honest and real advice, even if it meant that I was actually wrong, as it is accustomed here in Dgrin, I don't see the need to mock anyone in this community.

RyanS · February 18, 2012

The law on this is awfully complex. I am not a lawyer, but there is a bunch out there on this topic.

If I purchase a painting by a master painter, take it home, and scribble all over it... that is OK so long as I never show or sell the work and attribute it to the artist I purchased it from. If I paint the entire thing white, like a blank canvas, I can sell it so long as I never mention the artist. If I purchase a painting by an artist, modify it in any way, then hang it up in an area generally visible to the public... The artist can sue me. The artist will win if the lawyers can demonstrate how the modification of the artwork harmed the artist's reputation. This part just applies to stuff you've purchased. Photography is included. It is honestly just a shot at protection. The government isn't going to send the FBI in to protect your work (yet).

If, however, I pay an artist to hang or create a work of art on my property there are some very special restrictions that apply. I don't own it, I'm only paying to have it on exhibit. I can't remove it. I can't modify it. I can't change it. No one can touch that work of art but the artist. There are special rules for removal of the art. In the worst case, the building owner will have to preserve it for 50+ years, at their expense! There are a few rules, however. That work of art has to be rare. Fewer than 200 must exist, they must be numbered and signed. In the case of a photograph, it has to have been produced for exhibition purposes only. Fine art. Finally, only idiot building owners will actually let you do this. Most will require waivers be signed before they will let you install something like that on their property.

Buyer beware, really. There are loads of protections for the artists.

paume · February 18, 2012

RyanS wrote: »

The law on this is awfully complex. I am not a lawyer, but there is a bunch out there on this topic.

If I purchase a painting by a master painter, take it home, and scribble all over it... that is OK so long as I never show or sell the work and attribute it to the artist I purchased it from. If I paint the entire thing white, like a blank canvas, I can sell it so long as I never mention the artist. If I purchase a painting by an artist, modify it in any way, then hang it up in an area generally visible to the public... The artist can sue me. The artist will win if the lawyers can demonstrate how the modification of the artwork harmed the artist's reputation. This part just applies to stuff you've purchased. Photography is included. It is honestly just a shot at protection. The government isn't going to send the FBI in to protect your work (yet).

If, however, I pay an artist to hang or create a work of art on my property there are some very special restrictions that apply. I don't own it, I'm only paying to have it on exhibit. I can't remove it. I can't modify it. I can't change it. No one can touch that work of art but the artist. There are special rules for removal of the art. In the worst case, the building owner will have to preserve it for 50+ years, at their expense! There are a few rules, however. That work of art has to be rare. Fewer than 200 must exist, they must be numbered and signed. In the case of a photograph, it has to have been produced for exhibition purposes only. Fine art. Finally, only idiot building owners will actually let you do this. Most will require waivers be signed before they will let you install something like that on their property.

Buyer beware, really. There are loads of protections for the artists.

Thanks Ryan:

This is the answer I was looking for.

lensmole · February 18, 2012

Art is different than commercial work and different laws apply.

paume · February 18, 2012

lensmole wrote: »

Art is different than commercial work and different laws apply.

I was talking about art..not commercial work.

Sam · February 18, 2012

paume wrote: »

Hi Sam:

I have to say, i don't find your condescending tone useful

My question was addressed as a matter to understand a Specific legal matter... Mostly because the person claims that she can and will use any artist's work (photo, paint or sculpture ) and alter it at her will with or without the artist's consent.

Unfortunately is not what the Law states and I have discovered that during the process...which was what I wanted to clarify mainly.

Whether I was willing to sell my work for that purpose was not the question...

p.s. I was expecting honest and real advice, even if it meant that I was actually wrong, as it is accustomed here in Dgrin, I don't see the need to mock anyone in this community.

I am sorry, I was not trying to be condescending or to mock you. It was a serious offer!

Yes I understand you want an answer to a specific question, and I am sure you will get quite a few responses to this. I would offer a different perspective on the whole thing.

You had a potential client ask you about purchasing some images and wanted to explore adding some text to the images. Rather than sitting down and calmly asking about what images she wanted, the text she wanted to use, etc. your immediate response, without even hearing what the client wanted, was negative. While you have every right to respond any way you want, this approach has put you into an adversarial position with your once potential client.

While your technically correct, based on your posts the only thing your doing now is arguing with your former potential client. I can't see a positive outcome here.

This is a lose, lose situation.

Sam

paume · February 18, 2012

Sam wrote: »

I am sorry, I was not trying to be condescending or to mock you. It was a serious offer!

Yes I understand you want an answer to a specific question, and I am sure you will get quite a few responses to this. I would offer a different perspective on the whole thing.

You had a potential client ask you about purchasing some images and wanted to explore adding some text to the images. Rather than sitting down and calmly asking about what images she wanted, the text she wanted to use, etc. your immediate response, without even hearing what the client wanted, was negative. While you have every right to respond any way you want, this approach has put you into an adversarial position with your once potential client.

While your technically correct, based on your posts the only thing your doing now is arguing with your former potential client. I can't see a positive outcome here.

This is a lose, lose situation.

Sam

Thanks for clarifying your reply Sam, and I do appreciate it.

The situation, as usual, is not always easy to put in writing, but the essential thing I wanted to investigate was the legal aspect. Mostly for the following reason, the designer in question is someone close to me and the fact she bluntly shows no knowledge of copyright laws will eventually be detrimental to her, and as i explained, she claims that she can and has altered artists's works without their consent... She and I will eventually come to an understanding about this specific matter because our relationship extends farther than just business and I do actually had a bunch of possibilities to give her. I did however wanted to make sure I was right when I told her she could get in trouble for what she thinks is her "right"...someone else might not be as lenient as I would be.

angevin1 · February 18, 2012

paume wrote: »

Ok, so I am quite aware of the law but this Interior Designer seems not to be and I just want to find a way to make her see the light. She wants to buy some of my photos for a client's office but wants to have something written(don't know what) on the photo...I said I wouldn't like any messages written on my photos and I wouldn't do it personally

To keep it brief, she says : "Well I can buy the file and have someone else write it for me..." Alleging that once a client buys an image (even a painting) the client can do as he//she pleases with it and alter it at their will...

Now I KNOW it is a matter of licensing and agreements...But she doesn't' seem to know this. I am trying to find literature on this...

Can anyone shed some light?

Have you investigated the first link in Angelo's sticky of resources in this forum? Even if you're certain about your rights in your case, that link is worth investigating.

Glort · February 19, 2012

Sam wrote: »

Omar,

Please send your unhappy client to me! No I am not kidding. Have her give me a call.

I will help her out and you won't have to worry about how your image will be used.

Sam

If you don't want to give Sam the lead, send her to me.

I don't have a problem with this " It';s my art and only I know what is best" Crap.
I'm in the game to make money.
If she wants to buy my pics and write a message and put the image on an office wall, I'll even write the message for her at no extra charge!

I have what seems to be an unusual outlook compared to the normal forum mentality.
The way I see it, my images are worth jack sitting all pretty and untouched on my HDD. They are only worth something when someone buys them.

Now personally, I'm not going to buy a car that the manufacturer says I can't Paint a different colour if I want to one day, I'm not going to hire an architect to design a house that says I can't put additions on it at some time and I can't see anyone else buying my photographs which I won't allow them to make fit for the purpose they want them for.

I think you should not sell this client anything.
How can you be sure that when she gets the prints she won't have someone write the message right on them or put the message on the matte of the frame?

Obviously keeping your work precisely as you see fit is of prime importance to you over and above mere monetary issues so don't take the risk of having your work tampered with.
Leave that to whores like me that put making a living before stressing about how someone might alter my precious images.

Just out of interest, I have heard making money out of work of the type you do and selling it online is very difficult and there is a LOT of competition.
How many prints a week/ Month would you sell on average ?

Client wants to "Modify" my Image...

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